1 2 Previous Next 56 Replies Latest reply on Mar 14, 2014 1:24 PM by A.T. Romano

    Blu-Ray Mystery

    adobenewbie123 Level 1

      Hi everyone,

       

      I am editing my film in premeire elements 10. My project setting is HD 1080i, 1920 x 1080  29.97 fps.  I recently started to practice burning blu-ray's to my work in progress movie, just so i am ready when everything is completed. However, until rcently, i did not own a blu-ray player but I learned on this board how to view my blu-ray disk  on my computer by opening up  the appalicable  drive and drilling through the directory until  reaching a file that is always named 00000. (and then opening via Windows Media Player)  The one thing I have noticed about that file, is that it is not quite as heavy as the .m2t file that gets created when I just export directly to my computer with a similar  AVCHD 1920 x 1080 setting.  However after viewing both files several times on my computer, i never could  a diference in quality between the blue ray disk and the exported .m2t file. I also have RGB cables that connect my compoter to my HDTV so every once in a while, I' watch various scenes on the bigger screen to gage how it looks.  Never had any problems, that is until I played my blu-ray disk on an actual Blu-ray palyer for the first time and i was horrified to hee how pixelated the picture looked. I also noiced that things  were getting slightly  cut off.  For example, a sign that appears  at the top off the frame  was missing the very upper part of the top letters. However if I take that same blue ray disk, put it in my computer, and project on the same exact  HDTV via my rgb cables, the probelme goes away.. no pixelation, no isues with the framing. So it almost looks to me liek tehre is an issue with my blu-ray player as oppsoed to the way I am burning my blu-ray disks.  Unfortunately i do not have access to a second blu-ray machine to test that theory so i wanted to get the opinion of the board on what is a mystery to me. How a blu-ray can play fine on a computer but crappy in a blu-ray player.

        • 1. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          All TVs, even modern LCD and LEDs, cut off a little around the edges of the screen. This is why video editors like Premiere Elements include the option to overlay "safe margins" onto the Monitor -- so that you can ensure that nothing essential to your video (particularly titles) fall outside this safe margin and risk being cut off by your TV.

           

          As for the pixelation you're seeing -- it's most likely related to the fact that you're playing the disc on your computer an you're running the video over an RGB connection.

           

          If you play the disc in a BluRay disc player over an HDTV, it should look terrific.

          • 2. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            >noticed about that file, is that it is not quite as heavy as the .m2t file that gets created when I just export directly to my computer with a similar  AVCHD 1920 x 1080 setting

             

            Part of the process of authoring a DVD or BluRay is that the original EDIT file is compressed into a PLAYBACK file

             

            For a DVD an original 13gig per hour edit file will be compressed to "about" 4Gig to create the VOB files

             

            I don't author BluRay, but will presume that the process is "somewhat" the same

            • 3. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
              adobenewbie123 Level 1

              Hey Steve,

               

              Thanks for the feedback.  Actually the situation is the exact opposite.  When I play it it through the computer , and thus projecting onto the hdtv via the rgb connection, there is no pixelation. It's the playback from the blu-ray player that is causing that pixelation  issue.  And my main concern is the pixelation.  I am not reallly bothered much about a tiny bit getting cutoff on the Tv monitor.   i just though that might relate to my pixelation issue so I wanted to report as well  (since the tv does not cutoff anything when I play the disk through the computer and thus is another thing only occurring when I play directly through the Blu-ray player. ) 

              • 4. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                I know of no reason that would happen if you:

                 

                a) Have a project set up for 1920x1080 video:

                b) Your original video is 1920x1080; and

                c) Your finished video is a BluRay disc and you're playing it on a BluRay player.

                 

                Is it at all possible something on your disc player or TV is reading things funny? For instance, if your TV is set to Zoom rather than Set by Program or 16:9, your video will look pixelated because your TV is displaying it at the wrong view settings.

                • 5. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  adobenewbie123

                   

                  At this point, I think it less expensive to go to the local store and purchase the least expensive Blu-ray movie you can find and play it back on your new Blu-ray player and compare the playback quality of the store purchased Blu-ray movie with yours. Have you done that already?

                   

                  What type of a Blu-ray disc are you using for your Premiere Elements 10 burn to Blu-ray? Are you using the Premiere Elements 10 burn to Blu-ray preset for 1920 x 1080 16:9 or 1440 x 1080 HD Anamorphic 16:9?

                   

                  Are there settings on the TV as well as the Blu-ray player? And, if so, have you checked them out, including any firmware and/or software updates for the TV and/or player?

                   

                  Just a few thoughts for now.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                    adobenewbie123 Level 1

                    Hey ATR,

                     

                    I am using a memorex BDR disk .  My burn settings  in Adobe premiere were 1920x1080 16:9.

                     

                    I have a question.  Would you agree that if the disk plays fine on my computer and also plays fine from the computer when it is projecting on my HDTV via RGB cables connecting the computer to the tV, that preliminary evidence suggests it's an issue more with the actual Blu-Ray player as opposed to the disk? (or perhaps an issue with my television as per Steve's note above  about the TV settings.)  I think as a next step, when I get home from work today I am going to try hooking up the Blu-Ray player  to my other television.  It is a little smaller but still an HDTV , just to see if the problem still occurs. That might help isolate if it is a TV issue Also, my Blu-Ray player was purchased on Craigslist and could be on the old side.  (relatively speaking of course) Not sure if that is relevant.

                    • 7. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      adobenewbie123

                       

                      If you have explored all the TV Blu-ray settings and connections on the present setup, then one of the next steps would be to try to connect the Blu-ray player to another TV. Will the actual connections be the same? Are all the settings involved on the TV and Blu-ray player sides or just the Blu-ray player side? Here I want to make the distinction between connections versus settings.

                       

                      I still favor the purchased $7.00 Blu-ray Movie as a tool in the troubleshooting. There is always thoughts of Blu-ray player (or any player) compatibility with a specific brand/type disc.

                       

                      All the information about the problem needs to be looked at and ruled in or out.

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                        adobenewbie123 Level 1

                        First off, happy and healthy New Year to everyone on the board!

                         

                        So I watched my first "store-bought"  Blu-ray disk on my player today with the family... The Guardians.  Great movie and unfortunately the picture was spectacular on the same HDTV that is giving me the pixelation problems with the  disk burned from Adobe Elements .  (which complicates the mystery)  One more thing to report that might be relevant. On my blu-ray disk, I could not fast forward or rewind which I thought was further evidence that my player was the culprit or at least the remote whcih came with it was defective.  But this afternoon, I had no problem fast forwarding and rewinding The Guardians blu-ray disk.  So now it does seem like the issue could relate to the disk and not the player or TV.  However, and not to beat a dead horse but I still think it is very significant, my Blu-ray plays fine in my computer and even has  agreat picture when I project it on my tv from the computer with the RGB cables.  So if it is a disk issue, why am I not seeing the pixelation from the computer?   Any thoughts on what my next move should be to troubleshoot?

                        • 9. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          adobenewbie123

                           

                          Thanks for the update.

                           

                          Can you get a Verbatim BD-R or BD-RE 25 GB disc and use Premiere Elements to burn to that disc, same as before, but just using the Verbatim disc instead of the Memorex?

                           

                          Players can be particular with regard to brand/type disc as well as video format on a supported disc brand/type.

                           

                          My one and only store purchased Blu-ray movie is Willy Wonka The Chocolate Factory. I used Nero Info Tool to determine that it uses a BD-ROM disc. From what I can put together it is a common disc type for these purchased movies. And, it appears to be different from BD-R or BD-RE. What does your Blu-ray player manual say about disc type compatibility and maybe brands?

                           

                          ATR

                           

                          Happy New Year.

                          • 10. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                            adobenewbie123 Level 1

                            Hey ATR,

                             

                            I purchased my blu-ray player "used" on craigslist and it did not come with a manual.  For Blu-rays it is old and I could not even find a  manual online. (It is a Seiki SR212S)

                             

                            I will try your idea to try the verbatim brand  for the burn. And thhat theory would explain why II can not use the rewind and fast foreward functionn on this particualr disk.   Question, if  I was able to test out a freind's blu-ray player, do you think it is  possible that the same memorex disk  could play properly on a different player? .  or do you think the memorex is a bad brand across the board for blu-ray burning.

                            • 11. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Memorex is a brand that buys the cheapest discs, that day, from other companies, and just rebrand them with their logo. One might get a batch of good ones, or not. It depends on which mfgr's. blanks come up in the stack.

                               

                              Also, no BD player is certified to play ANY burned disc - only commercially pressed discs, but many (most?) BD players CAN play burned discs - though not all.

                               

                              It could be that your Memorex disc WILL play in another BD player, if it is less sensitive to the burned discs, or it could well be possible that your BD player is too sensitive to playing any burned discs, that it will never work well.

                               

                              Just my 2¢,  and good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                adobenewbie123

                                 

                                At this point, I would seek and input as much information as possible about this situation.

                                 

                                1. Use of the Verbatim BD-R 25 GB instead of the Memorex BD-R 25 GB for the Premiere Elements burn to Blu-ray choice.

                                 

                                2. The playback of your Premiere Elements Blu-ray movie on Memorex BD-R 25 GB and Verbatim BD-R 25 GB, using your Seiki SR212S and another player.

                                 

                                3. The Sieki SR212S is supposed to have a HDMI port. Is it possible to connect your computer to the Sieki and playback the Premiere Elements Blu-ray on a computer player so that the Premiere Elements Blu-ray is played back on the TV via the Sieki? If so, what does that look like?

                                 

                                1 and 2 are thoughts for now. 3 is just speculation.

                                 

                                More later.

                                 

                                ATR

                                 

                                Add On....From what I have found via Google search, that Sieki player has good reviews.

                                • 13. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                  adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                  Sorry for the delay in getting back on this. I was finally able to get over to a friend's house to test on  a different tv and blu-ray player and here is what happened:

                                   

                                  1. The intermiitent pixelation I was experiencing  on my older blu-ray player did not occur on the second blu-ray player.  (which was  brand new)  That is the good news.

                                   

                                  2.  However, the problem with the frame  getting slightly cut off is still occurring.  For example, I can not see the first letter of the opening credits which is on the left hand side.Now here is the troubling part that makes me nervous there is a burn issue. The frame is totally normal when I play the blu-ray on my computer and view in Windows Media Player.  Even more disturbing , if I play the disk onn the computer and connect to my TV via RGB cables, I can see the full frame on the television with ful opening credits.   Nothing gets cut off. ( And this is the same TV that does get cut off when I connect it  to and play though the blu-ray player.) This issue occurred on 3 burns. I tried memorex, verbatim and even a Sony disk.  Since it is not an issue with the brand of disk, I am worried that something is wrong in adobe with regard to the burning process.  Is it possible I am burning a blu-ray that is only optimized to play on a computer ?  That is what it seems like to me.  My project setting is Full HD 1920 x 1080i, but burn setting in the dropdown is NTSC  1920 x 1080 and I leave the "fit contents" box unchecked when I burn.  And moee evidence that there is a problem with the burn, the fast forward and rewind function on both Blu-Ray players do not work .  It just says "Not available" This occurred on all 3 disks I burned.  However, when I burned a 4th disk I burned as a dvd and popped it in the same  blu-ray player, I was able to fast forward and rewind.When I pop in a store blu-ray, the fast forward and rewind works fine too,

                                   

                                  I would love to hear any insight on how to troublshoot further. Woud it be wise to just export to a .m2t file from adobe and try the burning pprocess in a different program?

                                  • 14. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Adobenewbie123,

                                     

                                    Regarding:

                                     

                                    2.  However, the problem with the frame  getting slightly cut off is still occurring.  For example, I can not see the first letter of the opening credits which is on the left hand side.Now here is the troubling part that makes me nervous there is a burn issue. The frame is totally normal when I play the blu-ray on my computer and view in Windows Media Player.  Even more disturbing , if I play the disk onn the computer and connect to my TV via RGB cables, I can see the full frame on the television with ful opening credits.

                                    Almost all TV's have some degree of overscan, with the exception of Broadcast Monitors. This was once a major problem, and has abatted to some degree with newer TV's - but it still exists to a degree. This overscan is the reason for the Guides - Title Safe Area, and Action Safe Area. While the degree of overscan has diminished, it is still with us, and depending on the calibration of the TV, might be as bad, as it was, in the old CRT TV days.

                                     

                                    When creating Titles, it is still good to place all Text within the Title Safe Area - you never know how "Aunt Marge's TV" will be set up. Same for the Action Safe Area.

                                     

                                    A computer monitor, with a media player, should show the full raster of the Frame, where one never knows with a TV.

                                     

                                    Good luck, and hope that explains what you are likely observing.

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      This article goes into more detail of overscan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

                                       

                                      Good luck,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      1 person found this helpful
                                      • 16. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                                        adobenewbie123

                                         

                                        Great good news.

                                         

                                        On the not so good news side....from the point of view of playback on TV via the typical DVD and/or Blu-ray player.

                                        However, the problem with the frame  getting slightly cut off is still occurring.

                                        Hunt appears to have gotten to you first on the TV overscan angle to those cut offs. This is a TV thing. Do you use the Safe Margins feature of Premiere Elements when you are creating your projects? Is so, I am assuming that you are using the default set up for them??

                                         

                                        If that is the case, did you know that you can customize the Safe Margins for Title as well as Action? To do that, go to Edit Menu/Project Settings/General and look to the area related to the Title Safe Area and Action Safe Area.

                                        SafetyMargins.JPG

                                        My last recollection is that you are using Premiere Elements 10 so the screenshot is from that version and shows the defaults. You could explore that aspect of the matter and see if you can get that to work for you. Have you explored and experimented with the TV and player settings to the fullest?

                                         

                                        So much for the TV Overscan.

                                         

                                        But, here is where I need to do my homework. With regards to your report...

                                        Even more disturbing , if I play the disk on the computer and connect to my TV via RGB cables, I can see the full frame on the television with full opening credits.   Nothing gets cut off. ( And this is the same TV that does get cut off when I connect it  to and play though the blu-ray player.)

                                         

                                        Do you get the same "no cut offs" if the connection is HDMI?

                                         

                                        Some reading material that might be of interest

                                         

                                        http://www.katescomment.com/tv-monitor-how-to-fix-overscan-zoom/

                                         

                                        More later.

                                         

                                        ATR

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                        • 17. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                          adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                          Hey Bill,

                                           

                                           

                                          Thanks for the feedback! A followup question though.  Does your theory still pan out even though the opening credits do not get cut off when I play through the computer but connect the computer to the TV? I am stilll watching it through the same tv monitor but can see everything. (it's only a problem on the tv minito when playing from the blu-ray player)

                                           

                                          Also, have you ever heard about an issue with the rewind and fast foorward not working after sveral  blu-ray burns?

                                           

                                          Thanks for your time!

                                          • 18. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                            adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                            Thanks ATR for the feedback. That is great to know about the safe margins!  I will certainly uutilize that moving forward.  I am not sure if the overscan explains the whole issue because I feel like I should be seeing the same cutoff when I go from computer to TV as oppsoed to blu-ray player to TV . Plus,   I think it's really weird that fast forward and rewind functions are not working on blu-ray disks I burn.

                                             

                                            It's not   a big deal for me to change the credits.  it's more peace of mind that I am buirning correctly

                                             

                                            Interesting thought to connnect the computer through HDMi as opppsoed to RGB since I use the HDMI connection for the Blu-ray player!.  But on my Acer lapyop, I do not seem to  have an HDMI imput.  I might need to borrow another computer to test  out that theory.

                                            • 19. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                                              adpbemewboe123

                                               

                                              Thanks for the follow up.

                                               

                                              Your questions are always interesting and lead to even more interesting replies on both sides.

                                               

                                              Looking forward to further developments.

                                               

                                              ATR

                                              • 20. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                Hey ATR,

                                                 

                                                Glad to hear!  Do you think there is any hope in fixing the rewind/fast forward issue?  That is really more criticial to me than the minor cutoffs.

                                                • 21. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                  adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                  Hey Bill,

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for this article above .  I am curious about this one  line I just read.   Does this mean if I am experiencing these cut-offs due to overacan on my HDTV,  that the overall picture quality is getting impacted as well. For example, could ovescan cause some pixelation?

                                                   

                                                  For 1080i/p overscan is undesirable,[3]as it reduces picture quality and 1:1 pixel mapping is preferred.[4]

                                                  • 22. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                    adobenewbie123

                                                     

                                                    I need to dust off my memory. I seem to recall a blu-ray playback rewind/fast forward issue a while back. Let me see if I can find it, and what became of the issue. I cannot, I will try to think it through according to the details that you present.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks.

                                                     

                                                    ATR

                                                    • 23. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                      adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                      Thanks ATR!!!  You rock!

                                                      • 24. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                        adobenewbie123

                                                         

                                                        I have not yet found the thread that I thought I remembered on the Blu-ray FastForward/Rewind business. But the problem seems to be all over the Internet, even with Premiere Elements out of the equation. All problems, no fixes, just the typical firmware update suggestions and statements from  some that the problem exists, statements from others that it does not for them.

                                                         

                                                        I suspect that the issue goes to the Blu-ray player, but there are those who seem to have escaped the problem. Can we shift the focus to the Blu-ray disc encoding process???? The Premiere Elements burn to Blu-ray presets are in the category "they are what they are" with its built in burn software. So....

                                                         

                                                        How about using the Phantom Burner to generate a Blu-ray disc image and then taking that to a Blu-ray disc with ImgBurn? And, then checking out the Blu-ray's playback, including FastForward/Rewind? Is it worth the time?

                                                        http://www.atr935.blogspot.com/2013/11/pe12-disc-imagephantom-burner-pe.html

                                                         

                                                        More later.

                                                         

                                                        ATR

                                                         

                                                        Add On....

                                                        The following may be the thread that I was remembering

                                                        http://forums.adobe.com/message/5874849#5874849

                                                        • 25. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                          adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                          Hey ATR,

                                                           

                                                          Thanks!  I am willing to try anything but after first read, the Phantom Burner option looks complicated.  Would there be any value for me to use the export to computer function as a 1920 x 1080 .m2t file and then importing that file into a completely different burning program like Nero?   Would that create a loss of quality due to it becoming a second generaton copy?? Assuming that I did  everything correctly with the burn settings in adobe , strange that this is not more of a wideporead issue.  Also I should note that II burned a blu-ray in Elements  of the same movie back in June , 2013, when it was just a  shorter, work in progress and there were no issues with FF or rewind on that version.

                                                          • 26. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                            adobenewbie123

                                                             

                                                            I think that the more comparable way would be the Phantom Burner route. It is an easy enough download/install of the tryout, and the Phantom Burner will show up as a drive in the Computer display. The only draw back is that, for the tryout (which can last essentially for forever), the BD limit is 1.5 GB. But good enough for a test run.

                                                             

                                                            I would run through the test myself except I have no standalone Blu-ray player, only the Blu-ray playback software that came with the Blu-ray burner.

                                                             

                                                            You wrote

                                                            Also I should note that it burned a blu-ray in Elements  of the same movie back in June , 2013, when it was just a  shorter, work in progress and there were no issues with FF or rewind on that version.

                                                            Perhaps your observation may have hit on a factor for your player....duration. What happens if you cut a copy of the current project down to the duration of the June, 2013 project, burn to Blu-ray with Premiere Elements and test the playback in your player. Or, add to a copy of the June 2013 project to get the same duration as the current project and see what happens in the playback?

                                                             

                                                            More later.

                                                             

                                                            ATR

                                                            • 27. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                              adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                              Okay I will give it a try.  One last question.  Any value to testing a burn at a slower speed?  I've been burning at 6 x but I read online that a slower speed can sometimes yield a more predictable output.

                                                               

                                                              Thanks!

                                                              • 28. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                                adobenewbie123

                                                                 

                                                                Yes. I would put the burn speed in as a factor in the appropriate place in the troubleshooting scheme.

                                                                 

                                                                All my BD-R are 6X, BD-RE 2X. And, the LG Blu-ray is rated as 12X.

                                                                 

                                                                As the budget allows, next on the agenda is a Blu-ray player to go with the TV.

                                                                 

                                                                ATR

                                                                • 29. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                  adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                                  Okay, cool.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                    adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                                    I plan to test out some alternate burning methods early next week to see if I can duplicate the error of no fast forward and no rewind on a blu-ray.   In the meantime, I had a bit of a breakthorugh with the second issue from this   trail, the pixelation. For the first time, I was able to duplciate the error on a computer. (as opposed to just seeing it on an HDTV)  This is huge becasue I can now send around screenshots of what I am seeing. While I am thankful tohhave learned about autoscan and believe that is certainly playig a role in this "picture quality" issue, this shows there may be something more. First off, to get the specs out of the way, I am using Premiere Elements 10 in a full HD, 1920 x 1080 rroject setting. For this recent test, I exported my movie to a mst-h264 1920x1080i 30 setting.  (my normal protocol for HD exports)  The first screenshot is from Windows Media Player at full screen and shows the clear picture I am used to seeing when I view my movie on a computer.  However, by merely clicking the arrow on Windows Media Player to take it out of "full screen", (second screenshot)  it produces the intermittent pixelation that I was seeing on my TV , specifically when people are  in motion.  (and this is even more pronounced than what i was seeing on my television) What is even stranger is that clicking the arrow back to full screen does not resolve the issue. The only way to remove the pixelation is to close out the file and open it up again from scratch in the full screen view.  The third and final  final screenshot was taken from my Real Audio player which I am now  realizing is an awful picture , regardless of whether it is in full screen or not.  All 3 screenshots were taken from the same exact computer.

                                                                     

                                                                    I would love to hear possible theories on this  inconsistent picture as I am happy with  how it looks on Windows Media Full screen and hoping  to duplicate that result in all scenarios.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks for your time!!!Windows-Media-Full_Screen.jpgwindows-media-not-full-screen-2.jpgrealplayer.jpg

                                                                    • 31. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                      nealeh Level 5

                                                                      Looks like an interlacing problem. Is your source footage progressive? If so why are you exporting it as interlaced?

                                                                       

                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                      --
                                                                      Neale
                                                                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                                       

                                                                      If this post or another user's post resolves the original issue, please mark the posts as correct and/or helpful accordingly. This helps other users with similar trouble get answers to their questions quicker. Thanks.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                                        adobenewbie123

                                                                         

                                                                        I think that your use of the term pixelation rises different thought than what I think is the issue here - an interlaced problem.

                                                                        http://www.neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html

                                                                         

                                                                        You are probably dealing with source 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second, with scan order of Top Field First (aka Upper Field First).

                                                                         

                                                                        Computer scanning is essentially progressive. So I would imagine that somewhere the video would be deinterlaced. If so, the deinterlacing scheme may be different from computer player to player?

                                                                        Real Player

                                                                        http://service.real.com/help/library/guides/RealProducer10/htmfiles/video.htm

                                                                        Windows Media Player

                                                                        automatically deinterlaces interlaced video

                                                                         

                                                                        If you stay with the m2t - H.264 1920 x 1080i30 export, at the Timeline level before export, you could look at Field Options Reverse Field Dominance or Always Deinterlace.

                                                                         

                                                                        Please remind me how you are playing back the m2t - H.264 1920 x 1080i30 on your TV?

                                                                         

                                                                        More later.

                                                                         

                                                                        ATR

                                                                         

                                                                        Add On - I did not see nealeh's post shown until after I had posted mine. It looks like we are targeting the same consideration.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                                          adobenewbie123

                                                                           

                                                                          In my latest post, when I asked

                                                                          Please remind me how you are playing back the m2t - H.264 1920 x 1080i30 on your TV?

                                                                          what I was aiming for, based on your reply, was your requirement for the H.264.m2t interlaced file for the TV player and the thought that you might be forced to your export choice because it was the only one compatible with your TV player.

                                                                           

                                                                          Looking forward to your follow up.

                                                                           

                                                                          Thanks.

                                                                           

                                                                          ATR

                                                                          • 34. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                            adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                                            Hey ATR,,

                                                                             

                                                                            My project setting is 1920 x 11080i so I thoughht that was interlaced?  Also , if it is a progressive issue, would it make sense that the issue would only appear when the screen size is diminished  on Windows Media?  Remember it looked really good at full screen.

                                                                             

                                                                            As far as playback on  my TV, that was from the actual Blu-Ray disk I burned on Adobe that did not have fast forward or rewind.  (the second issue)  The pixelation on the tv was not as bad as shown above and only appeared when I played  the disk from a Blu-ray player.  When I played the disk on my computer and watched on my HDTV via RGB cables, the picture was really good again.

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks everyone for your imput and hope my response further  clarifies the situation:)

                                                                            • 35. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                                              adobenewbie123

                                                                               

                                                                              Given your source 1920 x 1080i30, your project preset of NTSC/AVCHD/Full HD 1080i30 would be the appropriate project preset to use. And the scan order would be Top Field First, consistent with HD video. And, you appear to have done that.

                                                                               

                                                                              If you say that the TV playback was from a Blu-ray disc from Premiere Elements 10 Share/Disc/Blu-ray. In that case, you had no choice - you will end up with interlaced video, 29.97 interlaced frames per second, with scan order Top Field First.

                                                                               

                                                                              Does your TV allow you to play video from a USB Flash Drive or memory card? If so, export your video to M2T - H.264 1920 x 1080i30 and MP4 - H.264 1920 x 1080p30, transfer each to a USB Flash Drive or memory card and compare how each plays back on your TV.

                                                                               

                                                                              Are you considering what the players are doing with your interlaced video to display it - schemes to convert to a progressive form? In the case (Blu-ray disc format on Blu-ray disc where you are forced into an export format) did you try Reverse Field Dominance to correct any instances of what looks to me as an interlaced issue. (See links provided in prior thread).

                                                                               

                                                                              Computer playback is another issue and progressive playback characteristics. From what you wrote, it is the computer results and its whys that are puzzling you. Here again I suspect that it is the player handling of the interlaced to progressive at is at the core of the matter of what you see and do not see. Have you compared the play back on these players - M2T H.264 1920 x 1080i30 versus MP4 - H.264 1920 x 1080p30?

                                                                               

                                                                              Please remind me if you looked at what I am calling interlaced issue (you are calling pixelation) on other TVs and computers. I know you have looked at the TV rewind/fast forward.

                                                                               

                                                                              I will see what other supportive information I can find for you.

                                                                               

                                                                              More later.

                                                                               

                                                                              ATR

                                                                              1 person found this helpful
                                                                              • 36. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                                                adobenenewbie123

                                                                                 

                                                                                On reflection, this afternoon (barring detours) I will dig deeper in what you describe for the Windows Media Player and your M2T 1920 x 1080i30 file play back Full Screen versus Non Full Screen and see if I observe "interlaced" problems in either set.

                                                                                 

                                                                                More later.

                                                                                 

                                                                                ATR

                                                                                • 37. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                                  adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                                                  Thanks ATR for the excellent insight.  Question... would a more  experienced filmmaker still potentially run into the same problems if they had  a one size fits all philosophy for playback on computers and tv sets. Or do you feel my issues are indicative of  lower quality source material?  Also what is the diffrence between exporting as a m2t vs an mp4 since both will have the 1920x1080 settings.l  Is the mp4  just a progressive version of identical HD settings  and if so, is it bad to export to progresive if your project settings in adobeare interlaced?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  As far as the pixelation on the tv, it actually looks different than what I see on the computer.  So I am thinking now that  my issue with TV playback could  indeed be more exclusively related to autoscan, mentioned in the beginning of this trail.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  If Progressive is the more ideal format for computer playback is it also the ideal format for tv playback as well?  If so, that could be another problem for burning within adobe casue as you mentioned above, interlaced is the only option for burning to disk.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Thanks again for your time and invaluable feedback!

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                                                    adobenewbie123

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I am working on a reply, but had some questions....

                                                                                     

                                                                                    a. In the problem areas of your footage, is there a lot of motion?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    b. What is the size of your TV screen?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    c. With the TV picture disturbances, you seem to thing that they may be to TV overscan. I would question that since overscan typically involves cut off of text or action depending on the make up of a given TV. Where are the disturbances that you see...around the edges of the screen or in the body of the picture that you see on the TV?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    d. In your videos, are they typically a lot of scenes with lots of motion going on?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    More later.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Thanks.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    ATR

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Blu-Ray Mystery
                                                                                      adobenewbie123 Level 1

                                                                                      Hey ATR,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Yes these problem areas occur  when the characters are moving. (but they are not moving fast, just walking at a normal speed)Question, does de-interlacing need to occur on televisions like it does on computers?  (My TV screen is 46 inches )

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I can try exporting  as a progressive mp4 file an display on my TV through  my RGB cables, to see if there is any difference between TV playback on interlaced vs progressive files.  Would that be worthwhile? If it turns out my film looks better when exported as a progressive file, is it possible to burn a blu-ray as progressive?  (I do not see that option in Adobe Premiere)

                                                                                       

                                                                                      After going back to viewing my blu-ray disk again more closely just now, I definitely feel it is the same type of pixelation I am seeing on the computer. I see these  jagged edges that appear around the outline of the character.  So maybe I am dealing with the same deinterlacing problem on my television. I also wanted to note that i was able to reproduce this error on a different Tv and a different blu-ray player when I took the blu-ray disk to a friend's house,

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