15 Replies Latest reply on Jan 15, 2014 1:02 PM by saranas

    Paragraphs do not align to grid

    saranas Level 1

      Hello there:-)

      I created a baseline grid of 6pt, body text 12pt, head lead 12pt, space before and space after 12pt and 6pt. In one chapter, everything aligns, in the second one the paragraphs do not align. I'm going back and forth the paragraph style to change the space before and after of the head, but everything is still the same. What am I doing wrong?

       

      Any help is appreciated.

        • 1. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Same, or different, file(s)?

           

          Is align to grid set as part of the style?

          • 2. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
            saranas Level 1

            Peter,

            yes, for every paragraph style, say, body or body no indent, subhead, I checked align to grid. At the moment, I'm going around this by unchecking this option for a few subheads. This way, everything aligns, but I shouldn't be doing it. It's a subtle change, but I can see it. I chose 6pt for the baseline grid so that I could size all the other elements by using multiple of 6. I don't know what to think.

            • 3. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              You haven't really told us the full size/leading combinations for all the styles, just the leading and paragraph space specs for the headings, and I think 12pt type size for body text (or is that the leading, too?).

               

              Is it possible you have a custom grid established in some of the text frames? Is it different files? (you didn't answer that ).

              • 4. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                The baseline grid set in Preferences is only used if Use Custom Baseline Grid is unchecked in a text frame's Text Frame Options dialog

                • 5. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                  saranas Level 1

                  Ok, I'll provide more information:

                  body: 11/12;

                  subhead:13/14 Align to Grid: None;

                  subhead2: 14/18 Align to Grid: None.

                  I changed the Align to Grid: None a few minutes ago for the subheads to be able to align the paragraph. It still doesn't work correctly because I have to apply Align to Grid:All lines to a few subheads to have the text align across columns. I tried with Align to Grid: All Lines for everything, but it was not working. Does the size have to be a multiple of the leading size too? I took some training on the subject and that I know of only the leading has to be a multiple of the baseline.

                  I didn't check the Custom Align available for the text frame because I want consistent alignment across the document and it's not checked in the individual frames.

                  • 6. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                    saranas Level 1

                    Subhead: Space before 7pt and Space after 6pt with no alignment to the grid.

                    Subhead2: Space before 6pt and Space after 3pt with no alignment to the grid.

                     

                    No, this are not separate files. The content comes in a pdf file and is placed across the document. I didn't create other grids, so there shouldn't be another one applied. Is there a way to verify this?

                    • 7. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      Only the leading matters as far as the grid is concerned.

                       

                      Is the body set to align? if it is, it should be algining, but since your grid is in multiples of 6 it might be off by half a line (that's why I hesitate to use fractional grids). Your problem probably stems from subhead (but it could also be subhead 2). Unless the total of the leading, space before, and space after total an increment of 12 you'll be off grid.

                       

                      That sounds like it shouldn't be a problem, but if one of those headings happens to fall at the top of a column, ID is going to ignore the space before.

                      • 8. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                        saranas Level 1

                        I think you're right. Could you please give an example of how to do this "Unless the total of the leading, space before, and space after total an increment of 12 you'll be off grid."? I just need to see some numbers to see whether I can correct this.

                        Many thanks.

                        • 9. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          We cross posted there.

                           

                          Subhead 2 uses a total space of 27 in the middle of the page, 21 at the top, neither of those is a multiple of 12. At the top of the page it should put the body on the 12 points set of lines at the second baseline, but mid-page it's going to put the next body line 30 points below the last one, not 24.

                           

                          subhead 1 also uses a total of 27 mid-page, but only 20 at the top. Same behavior with the grid, though.

                          • 10. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                            saranas Level 1

                            The author of the training I took with Lynda.com did add a fraction of space at the bottom of the grid because the lines were not lining up, if it makes sense. At this point, I think it has to do more with the leading, space of the subhead. I'm just thinking loud:-) right now.

                            • 11. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              saranas wrote:

                               

                              I think you're right. Could you please give an example of how to do this "Unless the total of the leading, space before, and space after total an increment of 12 you'll be off grid."? I just need to see some numbers to see whether I can correct this.

                              Many thanks.

                              Well, in all honesty there's no way to do this so that you always have grid alignement and consistent spacing between the headings and and the body text unless they all use a leading value that's a multiple of 12 and all space before/space after is also a multiple of 12 (or whatever number you've chosen for the leading or the body text).  As soon as you introduce an odd number you're going to wind up with a larger space below a heading (usually at the top of the page), or a misalignment.

                               

                              On the other hand, if youy keep everything in multiples of the same body text leading value, you don't need a grid to maintain alignment.

                              • 12. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                                saranas Level 1

                                I'll have to work on this and look at all these numbers and get back to you.

                                Many thanks in the meantime:-)

                                • 13. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                                  saranas Level 1

                                  WOW! Where did all these numbers come from? Maybe this is my biggest problem. Could you please explain to me how you figured this out? Maybe if I get this, then I can correct the problem:-)

                                  • 14. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    subhead 1: space before = 7, leading = 14 and space after = 6.  7 + 14 + 6 = 27. A the top of a column, space before is ignored, so 14 + 6 = 20. Text aligned to the grid will fall on the next grid line below the space after, so if they'r e at 6 pt intervals, top of the column would be the line at 24, anwhere else, 30 pts below the baseline of the last line of the paragraph before the heading (or the 12 pt line at the top of the next column if the heading is the last thing in the column before).

                                     

                                    subhead 2 is  6, 18 and 3 for the same values, so again 27 mid-page, or 18 + 3 = 21 at the top of the column, and those still bump up to 24 or 30 pts to find a gridline.

                                    • 15. Re: Paragraphs do not align to grid
                                      saranas Level 1

                                      This sounds painfully complicated:-) So to make this work, let's recap:

                                      if I keep leading and space before/after as a multiple of 12, not 6 the baseline, text will align to the grid nicely. Is this correct? I'm going to try this way and see what happens:-)