17 Replies Latest reply on Jan 23, 2014 1:30 AM by Velde

    Rendering is really usefull?

    lupodeiboschi

      Hi everyone,

       

      in my last project is not possible to start the render the timeline and the line still remains red.

      But is it really necessary to render before exporting in a DVD? Because I was able to burn the cmplet project in a DVD but the quality doesn't seem as in the past when I did the rendering before.

       

      thanks for your answer

        • 1. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Welcome to the forum.

           

          Rendering of the Timeline (hitting Enter/Return to produce Preview files) is only for getting the smoothest possible playback. I edit many Projects, where I never Render, but then others, where I might Render a small section of the Timeline, to show, say my Keyframing of Effects, many times, before I Publish+Share.

           

          For more info on Rendering, see this Tips & Tricks Article: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4068277#4068277

           

          One possibility for your Timeline not Renderings is the setting of the WAB (Work Area Bar), to only a small portion of the Timeline. In the above article, down a bit, there is a link to another article on the WAB, which might be useful.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
            lupodeiboschi Level 1

            Hi again and many thanks for your helpfull answer

            • 3. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
              John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              From the Premiere Elements Information FAQ http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1042180
              •What version of Premiere Elements? Include the minor version number (e.g., Premiere Elements 9 with the 9.0.1 update).
              •What operating system? This should include specific minor version numbers, like "Mac OSX v10.6.8"---not just "Mac".
              •Have you installed the recent updates? (If not, you should. They fix a lot of problems.)
              •What kind(s) of image file(s)? When talking about camera raw files, include the model of camera.
              •If you are getting error message(s), what is the full text of the error message(s)?
              •What were you doing when the problem occurred?
              •What other software are you running?
              •Tell us about your computer hardware. How much RAM is installed?  How much free space is on your system (C:) drive?
              •Has this ever worked before?  If so, do you recall any changes you made to Premiere Elements, such as adding Plug-ins, brushes, etc.?  Did you make any changes to your system, such as updating hardware, printers or drivers; or installing/uninstalling any programs?
              And some other questions...
              •What are you editing, and does your video have a red line over it BEFORE you do any work?
              •Have you viewed the tutorial links at http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1275830 page?
              •Which version of Quicktime do you have installed?

               

              What is your exact brand/model graphics adapter (ATI or nVidia or ???)
              What is your exact graphics adapter driver version?
              Have you gone to the vendor web site to check for a newer driver?
              -If Windows, do NOT rely on Windows Update to have current driver information
              -you need to go direct to the vendor web site and check updates for yourself
              ATI Driver Autodetect http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/auto-detect-tool
              nVidia Driver Downloads http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us

               

              The Elements Tutorial Links Page http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1275830 may also help

              -has links to the FAQ/TIPS pages

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                Velde

                Dear Mr. Hunt,

                 

                So if I understand correctly rendering in Elements 12 has no influence on the quality of my DVD that I want to make?

                • 5. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Velde,

                   

                  You are correct. Rendering is used for producing "preview files," for smoothest possible playback of the Timeline. The Export/Publish+Share will Transcode the Timeline, to the required settings, by-passing those preview files completely.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    luopdeboschi

                     

                    Look at Timeline content rendering as your window of opportunity to catch a problem sooner than later. It is particularly useful for effects, transitions, titles, and non native video formats. Focus: it is a preview only thing with the program using a color line over the Timeline content as indicator for "needs rendering to get the best possible preview" or "does not need rendering to get the best possible preview".

                    non colored line = no rendering needed or possible

                    green line = no rendering needed or possible

                    orange line (versions 11 and 12) or red line (versions earlier than 11) = rendering needed and possible to get the best possible preview of what you have.

                     

                    A major consideration to this preview opportunity is the fact that each rendering of the Timeline content generates preview files ( examples, SD videos or stills, DVD.avi; HD video or stills, MPEG2.mpg). These preview files in the video format take up a chunk of hard drive space. So best set up a maintenance program to avoid pile ups that will impact the performance of the program. By default, these preview files are found in Windows 7, 8, 8.1 64 bit Libraries/Documents/Adobe/Premiere Elements/number of version/Adobe Premiere Elements Preview Files Folder.

                     

                    Deletion of them from an active project, will require re-rendering in the project if necessary.

                     

                    Please let us know if you OK with the above. If you need clarification on anything written, please do not hesitate to ask.

                     

                    Thank you.

                     

                    ATR

                    • 7. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                      Velde Level 1

                      Dear Mr. Hunt en Mr. Romano,

                       

                      Thank you very much for your response

                       

                      I have still another question where you may also reply to know.

                      I have a JVC Video camera that makes HD movies. The quality of these movies is very very good.

                      If I make a video in Premiere Elements 12 and this on DVD burning then the quality much less. The video is then much less sharp than on the original movies that my video camera.

                       

                      You guys know here might be a solution for that?

                      On Bluray burning is also not an option because I can't create menu and I want to correct though.I would love to hear your response.

                       

                      K. van de Velde.

                      • 8. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                        Velde

                         

                        Thanks for the follow up.

                         

                        Your question about the lesser quality for DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc (originals versus playback of your DVD) is a frequent one here, many threads on this.

                         

                        In answering the question for your specific Premiere Elements in your specific computer environment and source media, major considerations include:

                         

                        1. Problem due to expections. DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc (whether standard or standard widescreen) has a frame size of 720 x 480 NTSC or 720 x 576 PAL in contrast to the "HD" resolutions of 1920 x 1080 16:9 as well as 1440 x 1080 HD anamorphic 16:9 which is stretched for display to 1920 x 1080 by the 16:9 flag.

                         

                        2. Problem due to Premiere Elements project settings set incorrectly so that the project preset is not matching the properties of the source media. One example for this is...if you have 1080p, you should not be using the 1080i project settings. You should be using the appropriate project preset under DSLR.

                         

                        3. Miscellaneous. If you are judging quality in the Edit Mode monitor playback, it should be based on the rendered Timeline so that you are looking at the best possible preview. Previewing at the Edit level of the disc menus levels is not always the "best" so that the final judgment on quality needs to be made based on the playback of the end product with your player.

                         

                        Player settings are also important. There are advertised TV player with technology to enhance DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc playback.

                         

                        In all this, I have assumed that your burn to is burn to DVD-VIDEO format on DVD disc. Have you looked at burn to AVCHD format on DVD disc (a higher resolution format on DVD disc)? Finding a player for that could be a problem since it does not playback on an "ordinary" DVD player.

                         

                        Please explain

                        On Bluray burning is also not an option because I can't create menu

                        Premiere Elements offers disc menu with burn to Blu-ray disc format on Blu-ray disc. What is the problem, the old stop marker issue or something else?

                         

                        More later.

                         

                        ATR

                        • 9. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          K van de Velde,

                           

                          If one is starting with HD material, and then down-rezzing to SD (the max. capability of DVD-Video), there WILL be a loss in quality - one is going from about 1920 x 1080 down to 720 x 480 (NTSC), or 720 x 576 (PAL), so to compare the quality of the two is not really fair.

                           

                          The best that one can do is to start with a Project setting, that matches the original footage 100%, then edit. When times comes to author the DVD-Video, PrE will down-rez that HD material to SD. The final piece of the puzzle is to use high-quality blank media, and keep the Bit-Rate of the Transcode, up near 8 MB/s. That Bit-Rate is dependent on the Duration of the Timeline, and then the available space on the blank media, i.e. whether one is using a Single-Layer DVD-5 (with about 120 min. max. Duration), or a DVD-9 (with about 240 min. max. Duration).

                           

                          That is as good as it gets, since DVD-Video is limited in most respects. For higher-quality output, one would need to either produce a BD (Blu-ray Disc), or an AVCHD Disc. Note: the viewer will need a BD player to play the latter two.

                           

                          Good luck, and hope that helps.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                            Velde

                             

                            In returning to your thread looking for any follow up from you, I see that Hunt has later posted essentially what I wrote earlier in your thread. It looks like we were essentially on the same wavelength traveling through cyberspace at the same time.

                             

                            We will be looking forward to your further DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc exploration and comments dealing with "expectations" versus "project setting factors", including TV technology and settings.

                             

                            Thanks.

                             

                            ATR

                            • 11. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              ATR,

                               

                              I see that Hunt has later posted essentially what I wrote earlier in your thread. It looks like we were essentially on the same wavelength traveling through cyberspace at the same time.

                              Yes. It seems that either you started a few moments before me, or type much faster, than I do...

                               

                              Glad that we basically said the same thing.

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                                Velde Level 1

                                Hello,

                                 

                                My project settings are:

                                 

                                projectsettings.png

                                And my videoproperties are:

                                vie.png

                                If I burn to a AVCHD format then the quality is perfect only Adobe Premiere Elements supports only end markers in DVDs. If your project contains menu-end marking, they are only available when you select the project to a dvd burns. The end markers are not available if the project to a blu-ray disc or AVCHD burns.

                                 

                                K. van de Velde.

                                • 13. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Velde,

                                   

                                  You are correct. PrE's Stop Markers do not translate to AVCHD disc, or to BD's - only to DVD-Video discs.

                                   

                                  Good luck, and happy editing.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                    Velde

                                     

                                    Based on your screenshots, you are not using the appropriate project settings for your project.

                                     

                                    The new project dialog shows that the project is set for NTSC 1080p60

                                    1920 x 1080 @ 59.94 progressive frames per second

                                     

                                    Premiere Elements properties shows you have

                                    1920 x 1080 @ 25 (not sure if interlaced or progressive) frames per second.

                                     

                                    That Premiere Elements project preset should match the properties of your source media, so project preset should be:

                                     

                                    PAL

                                    AVCHD

                                    Full HD1080i25 (if interlaced video)

                                     

                                    or

                                     

                                    PAL

                                    DSLR

                                    1080p

                                    DSLR 1080p25 (if progressive video)

                                     

                                    Please review and let us know if I have misinterpreted the screenshots.

                                     

                                    Thanks.

                                     

                                    ATR

                                    • 15. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                                      Velde Level 1

                                      Thank you very much for your response.

                                       

                                      What is de difference between: Full HD1080i25 (if interlaced video) and DSLR 1080p25 (if progressive video)?

                                       

                                      If I set my project preset to:

                                      PAL

                                      AVCHD

                                      Full HD1080i25 (if interlaced video)

                                       

                                      than de quality is less than the original

                                       

                                      My videocamera is a JVC Everio and de videoquality setting is: UXP

                                      • 16. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                                        Velde

                                         

                                        Lots here to go through.

                                         

                                        I checked the JVC Everio UXP setting description online. And, you appear to be recording

                                        1920 x 1080 16:9 @ 25 interlaced frames per second.

                                        The project preset indicated for that would be

                                        PAL

                                        AVCHD

                                        Full HD1080i25

                                        Interlaced video can come with Top Field First or Bottom Field First. In this case, it would be Upper Field First. That is by the book except if your intended export is burn to disc DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc. That product comes with 25 interlaced frames per second where the Scan Order = Bottom Field First.

                                         

                                        There are 2 ways to deal with that type of situation if it creates problems (you will probably have to set the following manually rather than taking a chance on what the program will pick)

                                         

                                        1. Use the special project preset under Hard Disk Flash Memory Camcorders which will automatically "Reverse Field Dominance"

                                        Specifically use

                                        PAL

                                        Hard Disk Flash Memory Camcorders

                                        Full HD 1080i25

                                         

                                        or

                                         

                                        2. Use the project preset mentioned previously

                                        PAL

                                        AVCHD

                                        Full HD 1080i25

                                         

                                        And then when you have your video clip on the Timeline, right click the video, select Field Options, and then "Reverse Field Dominance".

                                         

                                        See if that affects the quality of the end product DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc.

                                         

                                        From the point of view of the project preset, the major thought is to set it so that it directs the program to set the right space in the Edit Mode monitor for your editing. Unless you are doing frame to frame to frame editing, it will not matter if the frame rate is 60, 30, 25 interlaced or progressive with regard to the space established in the monitor.

                                         

                                        But, the project preset also has some subtle effects on the project which require special attention besides this basic right space need. Therefore all this discussion.

                                         

                                        Please review the above and let us know if any of it helped to improve your end product's quality.

                                        The following is one of my more favorite online article on Interlace and Progress video explained.

                                        http://www.neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html

                                         

                                        Thanks.

                                         

                                        ATR

                                        • 17. Re: Rendering is really usefull?
                                          Velde Level 1

                                          Dear Mr. Hunt en Mr. Romano,

                                           

                                          Thanks again for the quick responses.

                                           

                                          I have tried out a few things.As with field option choose "reverse field dominance" than flickers at image very much. If I then "flicker removal" then choose which flicker is gone.

                                           

                                          My problem is especially at the moving parts in my movies. Especially the moments in which I move my video camera itself, such as when I move my video camera along with someone who walks from left to right. Then the image is what blurred, the objects in the movie are what blurred. In the video, the objects of that "wiping". You'll then see very very good the pixels in the film, it is not a tight image when there is movement in the video. At still image is the quality is perfect! I would also like to have that quality in moving image.

                                           

                                          It seems like the images when movement a fraction behind.

                                           

                                          Maybe you have more tips for me?

                                           

                                          Thanks,

                                           

                                          K van de Velde.