13 Replies Latest reply on Mar 11, 2014 5:33 PM by sinious

    Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?

    quartertwelve

      Hi,

       

      Just finished building a new pc (16GB RAM), installed Flash CS5, and it's randomly crashing.  I imported a bitmap and traced it into a vector image, making the file 198.9KB.  It is only one frame long, two layers (one is a guide, the other is the vector image).  If it's crashing now, I imagine it won't be able to handle much further ahead.  Why is this happening?

       

      I tried looking into forums, saw discussions about scratch disks, cache amounts, all of which are supposedly available in the Perfomances option under Preferences, but I can't find any such option.

       

      If someone could please help me out, that would be great.  Thank you.

        • 1. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
          sinious Most Valuable Participant

          In my experience CS5 was very stable. Chances are if you're only experiencing this after a full system upgrade (of which you almost certainly installed a fresh OS) then I'd bet on it being software corruption (OS or Flash, probably the latter), or some hardware you seated isn't playing nice.

           

          If it's software corruption on the OS, other apps will be crashing as well. If it's specifically Flash then that install may simply be corrupted and a quick reinstall would solve that.

           

          If it's hardware, that's a bit harder. It's very tempting to grab gobs of cheap (G.SKILL, PNY, etc) unmatched RAM these days. Even tried and true brands that are cheap are overlooked (Corsair XMS). In my experience (hundreds of systems built), RAM or an overheating CPU are almost always the culprit. A very distant 3rd and 4th place are motherboards and power supplies.

           

          If I were to throw a dart at a possible hardware problem, I'd choose RAM that isn't playing nice together or CPU thermal grease that isn't performing well (CPU overheating causing crashes). Luckily both are easy to test, grab a copy of good ole' Prime95 and torture test your system. If any part of your RAM, CPU, FSB or PSU are acting up then it will fail tests. Then you know what the problem is:

          http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/

           

          Don't sign up for the team or allow it to run while your system is idle. Simply uncheck all of that and ignore the team request. When you run it, if the torture test doesn't spawn a dialog to start, run Options->Torture Test:

           

          torturetest.png

           

          Leave it at the default Blend test and verify it counted your cores correctly (I'm sure it did). For me, this old dev rig is an old i5-2500k which does not have hyperthreading so it only has 4 cores. If you have hyperthreading then you'll see double your cores (4 for dual core, 8 for quad, etc):

           

          tt2.png

           

          Click OK and leave the system alone for a while (hour or so). If your RAM has any issue you almost always see it error out within 10 minutes. Open your task manager to see it utilizing all available CPU and gobs of RAM while it tests.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
            quartertwelve Level 1

            Hey sinious,

             

            Thanks for your reply.  I've been looking into this problem for a while now.  I've got Prime95 running a torture test right now and so far so good as far as I can tell.

             

            I also ran Memtest 86+ on USB the other night.  I managed to get 4 passes and no errors, but it was over an 11 hour time period, so I don't know if that's something to be concerned about.  Apparently not, according to some sources, since it can take a while for scans depending on the amount of data.

             

            Haven't tested Flash again so far.  I don't think it's a OS corruption issue, this is the only program that's crashed on me.

             

            One other issue that might've been contributing to it was my RAM latency settings.  In my BIOS, everything was set to AUTO, so I changed the XMP to profile #1, which calibrated everything to their standard specs.  There shouldn't be any overclocking as far as I know, which is exactly what I want.

             

            So, we'll see what happens.  Thanks for your help.

            • 3. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
              quartertwelve Level 1

              Hey,

               

              So I finished the Prime95 test.  I let it run for about 4 and half hours.  Only one worker failed after just under 3 hours.  I didn't realize the test forced the system to overclock or at least was seeing how if fared in that kind of performance.  In the future, I don't intend on trying to push it that much, at least not intentionally.  But, it's good to see how it lasted in those sort of conditions.

               

              Would like to hear you thoughts again about this matter if you have the time.  Thanks again.

              • 4. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                sinious Most Valuable Participant

                If you ran memtest86 for 11 hours I'd say your RAM is pretty solid. Setting it to their correct setting never hurts as well. If you overclock, typically mixed RAM will need to be underclocked to remain stable, but you said you're not overclocking so that shouldn't be any issue.

                 

                If prime95 ever errored (4 hours isn't too long), I'd run it again over night or for as long as you can to see if you can get it to error consistently. If you do, there's an issue. If I were to guess, it's probably either a CPU overheating issue or you're finding a weakness in the PSUs continual output. You can run the same test again for CPU or try the PSU abusing test to rule that out. It really should never fail (although your electric bill will get smacked around hehe).

                 

                That said, if it took this much to get it to error, I somehow highly doubt this is your issue in Flash. It doesn't push a system anywhere near this that much CPU in the IDE itself. Especially not in the circumstance your OP mentions, just a traced bitmap. See if you can get it to consistently crash doing a specific set of steps. That's the best way to test it although I'll only be able to test those steps on CS5.5 which is a bit different.

                 

                While you're using Flash, open up your process list and watch the Flash process. You'll see it uses almost no CPU (always waiting for RAM to feed it) except when it first launches or when you're testing playback of a complex movie. But just using the IDE itself, CPU usage is extremely low. Nowhere near torture test level.

                 

                Did you try a quick Flash reinstall BTW?

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                  quartertwelve Level 1

                  I'm beginning to think it's an overheating issue.  As far as I can tell, after a few hours running, the temperature ranges between 86 and 93 degrees Fahrenheit.  I've been trying to find a safe temperature for an i7 core, what I have right now sounds a little high.  My chasis has multiple fans and I have a hyper 212 for my cpu, but I still don't know if that's enough.

                   

                  I'd like to run prime95 again, but I want to try and get this temperature issue situated first the tests push the cpu to 100%.

                   

                  Haven't tried to reinstall Flash just yet.  I'm going to see if I can get it to crash consistently first, like you suggested, to see if there's a particular set of steps that's freaking it out.

                   

                  But, I'm really starting to think the temperature is playing a big role.  You've also mentioned the same suspicion multiple times.  Any feedback on that part?

                  • 6. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                    sinious Most Valuable Participant

                    You crashed within 4 hours so if heat is the issue then the only thing I'd suggest is testing while awake. Pick any time you'll be available to keep an eye on it. I've seen motherboards blow capacitors and that can be dangerous if left unnoticed (extremely rare and the PSU knows to shut down in this situation anyhow).

                     

                    Your thermal range is perfectly fine. The "ideal" temperature is 39C (102.2F) for i7 4th generation and it only gets wildly higher (e.g. up to 100C on some older i7s, or 212F!). They have built in thermal throttling (not OS controlled) which will underclock to cool just as it will overclock when in ideal range. Pegging out a CPU at 100% is exactly what the chip is designed for. If you're not using 100% of your CPU at all times then it's simply underutilized. Don't worry at all about that.

                     

                    Don't be afraid to push components. The longer you have something malfunctioning in your rig the longer you chance the problem getting worse or even out of warranty/exchange time.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                      quartertwelve Level 1

                      I'm glad you mentioned the issue of underutilizing the system because that's been another concern of mine, so thank you for bringing that up.  It's more assuring to know that the parts are made to handle being pushed.  That's a little more weight off my shoulders.

                       

                      It sounds like heat isn't the issue after all.  The range I described is all I've experienced so far, and as you said, those temperatures are fine.

                       

                      So, I think I've found what's been crashing the program.

                       

                      In particular, it's when I try to do something with a bitmap.  I imported a simple black and white drawing (sketch of a clock) onto the stage, then traced it into a vector image so I wouldn't lose quality when I change its size.  Lo and behold, the fans start to heave a little harder, the program slows down, and after a few minutes, it stops responding.  I was watching the CPU performance in task manager and it showed 2.5 GB of memory being used and barely 10% in CPU Usage.  What threw me off though was that in the graphs for CPU Usage History, I would see a very dramatic spike upwards anytime I tried to do something with the image in Flash.

                       

                      I'm at a complete loss.  Do I not have enough RAM?

                       

                      Everything seems to be working fine.  I tested Prime95 the other day for another 4 hours and had no failures.  I'm going to run it again today hopefully for longer.

                       

                      I'll wait to hear from you, then maybe I'll try reinstalling the program.  Thanks.

                      • 8. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                        sinious Most Valuable Participant

                        It takes 10 minutes to reinstall, I'd think you'd do the easy part first ;).

                         

                        Try tracing it to a vector in a different app like Illustrator if you can. The limited outline feature in Flash may just not be up to this bitmap if it's extremely complex or large.

                         

                        Backing up, are you sure you need to stretch it so much a vector is required here?

                        • 9. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                          quartertwelve Level 1

                          Haha, yeah I guess that is the easy part.  I'll go ahead and do that, see how it goes.

                           

                          Don't think I have anything like Illustrator, but I think vectorizing images is definitely what's been setting off the program or at least working with bitmaps.

                           

                          I was vectorizing just because I thought that would optimize the quality of the image.  Is that wrong?  I didn't think the image was very complex, so I thought there'd be no problem.

                           

                          More news on running Prime95: I ran it for just over an hour, had one worker fail.  Then I ran it again for 7 hours and 19 minutes without any errors.

                          • 10. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                            quartertwelve Level 1

                            Just did the reinstall.  Still crashing.  It's a hardware issue, but I don't know where the problem is coming from.  Everything is functioning, but I guess something isn't matching up correctly.

                            • 11. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                              sinious Most Valuable Participant

                              Bitmaps render extremely fast (memory speed) with little to no CPU overhead (depending on what you're doing with the bitmap). Vectors require CPU to redraw, unless you're cachingAsBitmap, and at that point are just back to bitmap, except when you resize.

                               

                              Tracing (to me) is for very specific images (cartoons, logos, simple ultra high contrast images). The colors generated do scale better as a vector but you will pay the penalty of performance loss.

                               

                              The best way to know if you really need it considering you are the only person that knows the image you're scaling is to use it as a bitmap, scale it how you need and consider the results.

                               

                              As for the hardware issue, prime95 should never fail. There is definitely a hardware issue, however I could not say what component is generating it yet. Motherboard, CPU or memory are still suspicious, although memtest made memory less likely.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                                quartertwelve Level 1

                                Hey sinious,

                                 

                                Thought I'd give you my final update.  So, after many tests, it was decided that my cpu had a defective controller memory hub.  I had that traded in, tested out the new one on prime95 for over 13 hours and had no problems, no failures.  Even with that, CS5 still crashes.

                                 

                                So, I downloaded the 30 day trial of Creative Cloud and wouldn't you know it, no problems with any of it.  Flash Professional works, so does Photoshop, and so does Illustrator.  My next test will be with Premiere.  Hopefully, there'll be no problems with that.

                                 

                                My final guess, like you mentioned before, something with the software was off.  I'm probably going to go with CC and never look back.  And that's that for now.  It's been a long haul.  Thanks again for all of you help.

                                • 13. Re: Why is Flash CS5 crashing on my system?
                                  sinious Most Valuable Participant

                                  Glad you're fast and stable albeit not your original choice in versions. You're welcome and good luck!