14 Replies Latest reply on Feb 4, 2014 6:58 AM by Rick Gerard

    Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space

    praguian Level 1

      I have a 3D environment with some fairly dark lighting, and I want to have a phone screen floating that looks...well, like a phone screen.

       

      I can dummy the effect by simply turning off Accepts Lights for the layer, which allows me to completely control the color and keep it as bright as I want. However, a realphone screen would have some glare to it with lights shining on it, and I want to get that.

       

      The problem is, with Accepts Lights turned on, I cannot find the right mix of attributes (Ambient, Diffuse, etc.) to get the screen even close to bright enough. In other words, it looks just like a piece of paper would with the environment's lighting; you can tell it's white, but it's very heavily darkened and shadowed. I need it to give off its "own" light just like a digital screen would.

       

      Is this achievable in a simple manner? I don't want to break the time bank for this.

       

      As always, thank you!

        • 1. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
          Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Two copies of your screen layer. One with accept lights turned off and one on.

          Play with blending modes and opacities until you're happy.

          • 2. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
            praguian Level 1

            Thanks for the reply. But I can't use Blending Modes in 3D. So would I have to pre-compose the two duplicate layers, make them 2D in their nested comp, and then make the comp itself 3D within my main comp?

             

            But in that case, I couldn't set lighting effects (specifically, Accepts Lights) on my duplicate layer within the sub-comp because it would be 2D.

             

            So I'm not sure how to work your solution...

            • 3. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
              Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              rhannebaum wrote:

               

              Thanks for the reply. But I can't use Blending Modes in 3D.

               

              Blending modes work in 3d...

              • 4. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                praguian Level 1

                Szalam wrote:

                 

                rhannebaum wrote:

                 

                Thanks for the reply. But I can't use Blending Modes in 3D.

                 

                Blending modes work in 3d...

                I'm in Ray-traced 3D, so no, I don't have access to blending modes. Sorry, I should have specified Ray-traced from the outset.

                • 5. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                  Dave LaRonde Level 6

                  Sounds like you need a workaround.  You might have to pre-render the ray-traced stuff, then add it back into your 3D comp.  Depending on what's happening in it, it might work.  Or it could get verrrrry tricky, too......

                  • 6. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                    praguian Level 1

                    I can't, there is extrusion on many of the 3D elements which would be lost in pre-render.

                    • 7. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                      Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      The kind of glow you are talking about is easily achieved with blurred copies of your glowing phone screen...

                       

                      Lighting up the objects it passes is achieved by animating blurred masked solids or even sections of your footage that have a blur applied and the blend mode set to screen or add.

                       

                      It's a bit like creating a light saber with masks and blurs on duplicates of a shape layer or masked solid...

                       

                      Trying to get AE give volumetric lighting effects using a light without a 3rd party solution like Trapcode Lux is a pain in the neck. A little tracking, animated masks and general basic compositing skills even removes the necessity of doing any of this except the animated floating phone with a 3D layer.

                       

                      Here's a post I made a while ago with an explanation that should work for you.

                       

                      http://forums.adobe.com/message/3886886#3886886

                       

                      Here's a similar thread with a sample project where I'm compositing a glow from a TV on a kid watching the program.

                       

                      http://forums.adobe.com/message/5755690#5755690

                       

                      http://forums.adobe.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-5755690-486557/Screen+Shot+2013-10-13+at+5.56.13+AM.png

                      You can download the CC project here.

                       

                      I would just render your 3D phone with Ray-traced rendering then composite the project as 2D layers. Unless there's something you didn't explain about your project this would be the most efficient production workflow.

                      • 8. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                        praguian Level 1

                        Thank you for the very detailed answer, Rick. Unfortunately there are elements in my comp that would prevent me from achieving your solution, I think.

                         

                        Here's a screenshot to illustrate. I move a camera (multiple cameras, actually) around this scene during the duration, so certain elements have to have true 3D extrusion in the comp itself, to appear truly 3D as the camera pans around.

                         

                        Screen Shot 2014-02-01 at 10.44.23 AM.png

                         

                        You can barely see it because it's black at the time of the screenshot, but there is the floating phone screen (in front of the blue cog).

                         

                        So to my problem, everything is fine while the screen is black, but when I light it up, I need it to be 100% white, with the darker elements on the screen showing some very slight glare from the lights shining on the screen....just as a real phone screen would behave in such lit conditions.

                         

                        So I agree it seems like something that should be done with duplicate layers and blending modes, but since I have to have this comp in Ray-traced for the extrusion, I don't think blending modes are an option, are they?

                        • 9. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Thanks for the screenshot but it tells me nothing at all about your project. Can you do it in 2D? Absolutely, with layers. You can also mix a Ray-traced Comp as a pre-comp in a standard comp. If I knew something about your setup, like a screenshot of the project with changed properties revealed, or a flow chart with notes then I could help more.

                           

                          Here's how I would do it in 2D..

                           

                          Render just the 3D phone layer.

                           

                          Render just the other 3D layers.

                           

                          All layers would have transparency.

                           

                          Import all layers and use blurs, masking and other tricks to add light. Something like this:

                          • 10. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                            praguian Level 1

                            Once the layers are rendered I lose the 3D extrusion though, which is crucial as I pan the camera around.

                            • 11. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                              Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              I don't think you are understanding what is being suggested.

                               

                              You can use some of the pre-render passes as track mattes.

                              • 12. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                                praguian Level 1

                                Clearly not, and I apologize for that. Though, I didn't get any photo at the end of Rick's post, when he says "Something like this...". That's the end of the message for me (no picture!). Maybe that would have gotten me on the right track.

                                 

                                So keep the main comp as 3D with the camera and everything, but use pre-rendered versions of the elements as mattes to add reflection to the screen. Is that closer to what is being said?

                                • 13. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                                  Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  You don't even need to prerender it, really. You could use precomps. In fact, your precomps could be connected with expressions so that a change to the camera movement in one is reflected in the other so you could keep things live.

                                  • 14. Re: Mimic the lighting of a phone screen in lit 3D space
                                    Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Sorry about missing the image. Got tied up on a phone call and didn't complete my post. Here you go.

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2014-02-04 at 6.54.24 AM.png

                                    I just used a mask to isolate the phone, you could do that with a pre-comp or a pre-render. Because you're using Ray-traced rendering it would be faster to adjust your composite if you pre-render the extruded layers.

                                     

                                    The 'glow' layer was just the phone with the output white and black levels reversed to turn it white, a blur, and blend modes.

                                     

                                    I also duplicated the original footage, changed the blend mode to screen, and adjusted the opacity to pull a little more light into your scene.

                                     

                                    Pretty simple really. Just layers, blend modes and blurs...