19 Replies Latest reply on Jun 22, 2006 1:32 PM by Newsgroup_User

    justify

    dreamdust
      How Do I used the justy alignement tool "Block"?
      When I past my text and hit Block, some lines appear stretched across the entire text box like this (minus the dots)
      H...........................................e.......................................l..... ............................................................l............................. ..o
        • 1. Re: justify
          Level 7
          dreamdust wrote:
          > How Do I used the justy alignement tool "Block"?
          > When I past my text and hit Block, some lines appear stretched across the
          > entire text box like this
          > H E l l
          > o p e o
          > p l e
          >

          That's what Justify does.


          --
          St�phane Bergeron
          reach:connect:communicate
          www.webfocusdesign.com
          blog:tutorials:articles:gallery
          www.pixelyzed.com
          • 2. Re: justify
            dreamdust Level 1

            > That's what Justify does.

            Are you by any chance jusifying a bad justify as normal?
            --------------------------------------------------
            Any users out there with some real sense about this please reply.
            • 3. Re: justify
              Level 7
              dreamdust wrote:
              > > That's what Justify does.
              >
              > Are you by any chance jusifying a bad justify as normal?
              > --------------------------------------------------
              > Any users out there with some real sense about this please reply.

              Loose the attitude and show us an image of what you find objectionable
              and maybe someone will be able to help you. If you text box is much
              wider than the text and you set it to justify then it will "stretch" the
              text in the way I had to guess it did from the poor representation you
              put in your message. An image is worth a thousand words and all...

              --
              St�phane Bergeron
              reach : connect : communicate
              http://www.webfocusdesign.com
              blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
              http://www.pixelyzed.com
              • 4. justify
                dreamdust Level 1
                My example should suffice to any average being with an oz of imagination.

                My issue is solved - I found out from others Fireworks sucks when it comes to block.

                • 5. Re: justify
                  Level 7
                  dreamdust wrote:
                  > My example should suffice to any average being with an oz of imagination.
                  > just 'cause you're not getting enough at home don't take it out on me goofy
                  > broad...

                  We all get it...you seem to be the one that doesn't. Justify = right
                  justify. It's not just Fireworks, you used to see the same problem a
                  lot in newspaper columns.

                  And, er, St�phane is a guy, you know. :-)



                  --
                  Bonnie
                  in California
                  8 ^ )
                  • 6. Re: justify
                    dreamdust Level 1
                    I'm not talking about left, right, or middle justify people, it's block justify > the one to the right of 'em all.
                    • 7. Re: justify
                      Level 7
                      have you tried changing the size of the box by dragging the corners around?

                      dreamdust wrote:
                      > How Do I used the justy alignement tool "Block"?
                      > When I past my text and hit Block, some lines appear stretched across the
                      > entire text box like this
                      > H E l l
                      > o p e o
                      > p l e
                      >
                      • 8. Re: justify
                        Level 7
                        Hmmm . . . not the best technique for a newbie to get some assistance. Just
                        an observation.

                        Stephane is one of the most helpful fellows around. If you're not going to
                        accept his suggestions, I guess your motives for being here are
                        questionable.

                        -- Tony


                        • 9. Re: justify
                          Level 7
                          Anthony Bollinger wrote:
                          > Hmmm . . . not the best technique for a newbie to get some assistance. Just
                          > an observation.
                          >
                          > Stephane is one of the most helpful fellows around. If you're not going to
                          > accept his suggestions, I guess your motives for being here are
                          > questionable.

                          Yeah, the attitude was questionable (and thanks for defending me ;-) but
                          the guy has a point. I'd forgotten how limited Fireworks' handling of
                          justified text really is. Fireworks' Justify text alignment option is
                          limited to what Illustrator or InDesign call "Full Justify" which will
                          stretch single words on one line or last paragraph lines that don't take
                          up the whole text box width the same way: it will stretch them to the
                          width of the entire text box (that's what his "illustration" was
                          supposed to show...)

                          Both InDesign, Illustrator and other graphic apps offer additional Left,
                          Center and Right justification options where isolated words do not get
                          stretched but are aligned to the chosen side. Other apps like Word do
                          not offer all those different options (at least not the Word 2000
                          version I'm stuck with here) but are at least smart enough NOT to
                          stretch a single isolated word to the width of the text container as
                          Fireworks does now without offering any other options. Even OpenOffice's
                          Writer application offers better choices of how to handle last lines or
                          isolated words (better than Word too).

                          But in any case, if one is using enough text to justify using the
                          Justify alignment option then that text should probably be set in HTML
                          and styled with CSS. I mean, even browsers handle justified text better
                          than Fireworks...

                          --
                          St�phane Bergeron
                          reach : connect : communicate
                          http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                          blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                          http://www.pixelyzed.com
                          • 10. Re: justify
                            dreamdust Level 1
                            Thanks for your feedback - had I received it right off the bat - no prob.

                            As for the "questionable" issue, what users should understand is that forums like these are usually last resort after big frustrations, and users should learn to "get over yourselves" and not exacerbate the issue when someone is seeking help. So, I can ***** if I have a prob, and you just try to help and don't get whimpy on me.

                            I have not tried your suggested HTML or CSS method because: a. I have already solved the issue by adding transparent dots at the end of each sentence; b. This was the first time in 6 yrs that I ever had to use a block justify in FW.


                            • 11. Re: justify
                              Level 7
                              dreamdust wrote:
                              > Thanks for your feedback - had I received it right off the bat - no prob.
                              >
                              > As for the "questionable" issue, what users should understand is that forums
                              > like these are usually last resort after big frustrations, and users should
                              > learn to "get over yourselves" and not exacerbate the issue when someone is
                              > seeking help. So, I can ***** if I have a prob, and you just try to help and
                              > don't get whimpy on me.
                              >
                              > I have not tried your suggested HTML or CSS method because: a. I have already
                              > solved the issue by adding transparent dots at the end of each sentence; b.
                              > This was the first time in 6 yrs that I ever had to use a block justify in FW.

                              I understand the frustration part but there are a few issues you also
                              need to consider here. First is that I'm accessing the forum through a
                              newsgroup reader (as most experienced FW users do), not the slow and
                              awkward Web interface so your "illustration" did not translate very well
                              and did not show the dots and was separated on 3 lines, not 1).
                              Secondly, the terminology you used was incorrect. There is no such thing
                              as "Block" justify in Fireworks, just "Justified Alignment" so I wasn't
                              sure that's really what you meant.

                              I still that this is what you did mean and told you that's how Fireworks
                              does it. I also told you that an image (a screen capture in this case)
                              would have been the best way to illustrate your problem. Frustrated or
                              not, you cannot expect people here to *guess* your meaning when your
                              information is incomplete, unclear or incorrect. We all do what we can
                              to help here on our own time and I deal with enough ******** in real
                              life without putting up with immature attitudes like yours. I admit that
                              my replies are sometimes terse (like my first one in the thread), but I
                              don't have that much time to spend here and they usually go straight to
                              the heart of the matter.

                              I didn't respond to the insults in your third post in the thread because
                              I really don't care all that much (and it really takes a lot more than
                              that to offend me). You have to realize that neither I nor anyone else
                              here owes you anything. This is a peer to peer forum, not an official
                              support channel. Finally, I want to make it VERY clear that I added the
                              explanations in my previous post solely for the benefit of Anthony,
                              Bonnie, Alex and anyone else who might be wondering what's up with
                              Fireworks' "Justified Alignment". If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't have
                              bothered as i really have better things to do with my time than to argue
                              with ungrateful jerks like you.

                              --
                              St�phane Bergeron
                              reach : connect : communicate
                              http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                              blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                              http://www.pixelyzed.com
                              • 12. Re: justify
                                Level 7
                                Thanks for the explanation, Stephane.

                                "St�phane Bergeron" <news@webfocusdesign.com> wrote in message
                                news:e7btc1$1b0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                >
                                > even browsers handle justified text better than Fireworks...

                                Somehow, this seems reasonable. Browsers show text all the time. FW should
                                cater more to graphics.

                                Thanks,
                                Tony


                                • 13. Re: justify
                                  Level 7
                                  On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:04:31 -0400, "Anthony Bollinger"
                                  <tonyb2006@NEVERsendto.org> wrote:

                                  >Thanks for the explanation, Stephane.
                                  >
                                  >"St�phane Bergeron" <news@webfocusdesign.com> wrote in message
                                  >news:e7btc1$1b0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                  >>
                                  >> even browsers handle justified text better than Fireworks...
                                  >
                                  >Somehow, this seems reasonable. Browsers show text all the time. FW should
                                  >cater more to graphics.
                                  >

                                  Why? Fireworks is an IMAGE editing application. It's not meant to be
                                  used to create a website; that's what Dreamweaver is for.

                                  Not only that, Fireworks is a WEB image editing application. You
                                  shouldn't need to work with large blocks of text in Fireworks, because
                                  you should not be putting large blocks of text into web images.

                                  It's kind of like saying you want to use a hammer to remove a screw
                                  from a piece of wood. While you might be able to, wouldn't you (and
                                  the screw and the piece of wood!) be happier and more productive if
                                  you used the correct tool for the job?

                                  Win
                                  --
                                  Win Day, Wild Rose Websites
                                  http://www.wildrosewebsites.com
                                  winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com
                                  Skype winifredday
                                  • 14. Re: justify
                                    Level 7
                                    Well, if you held a small nail at just the right angle in the slot of the
                                    screw, and tapped it gently with the hammer, moving the nail with the screw
                                    head after each tap, you could do it, no?

                                    --
                                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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                                    "Win Day" <winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com> wrote in message
                                    news:r0dl92l6rargv0trt3t6g6lspa0urc24t5@4ax.com...
                                    > On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:04:31 -0400, "Anthony Bollinger"
                                    > <tonyb2006@NEVERsendto.org> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>Thanks for the explanation, Stephane.
                                    >>
                                    >>"St�phane Bergeron" <news@webfocusdesign.com> wrote in message
                                    >>news:e7btc1$1b0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >>>
                                    >>> even browsers handle justified text better than Fireworks...
                                    >>
                                    >>Somehow, this seems reasonable. Browsers show text all the time. FW
                                    >>should
                                    >>cater more to graphics.
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    > Why? Fireworks is an IMAGE editing application. It's not meant to be
                                    > used to create a website; that's what Dreamweaver is for.
                                    >
                                    > Not only that, Fireworks is a WEB image editing application. You
                                    > shouldn't need to work with large blocks of text in Fireworks, because
                                    > you should not be putting large blocks of text into web images.
                                    >
                                    > It's kind of like saying you want to use a hammer to remove a screw
                                    > from a piece of wood. While you might be able to, wouldn't you (and
                                    > the screw and the piece of wood!) be happier and more productive if
                                    > you used the correct tool for the job?
                                    >
                                    > Win
                                    > --
                                    > Win Day, Wild Rose Websites
                                    > http://www.wildrosewebsites.com
                                    > winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com
                                    > Skype winifredday


                                    • 15. justify
                                      dreamdust Level 1
                                      Get with it and use a real browser dummy. I don't have the time to read through all your BS. As I said, get over yourself! Your ego is too inflated and has to cry. Grow up and be a real man dude.

                                      Re: My usage, who said I'm using FW to make a web site anyway?? I'm amazed at your stupid judgement.

                                      You're wrong and I'm right. You suck and I don't, and that's my final answer.

                                      The end, goodbye and don't bother, so go ahead and talk it up among yourselves you silly whimps.
                                      • 16. Re: justify
                                        Level 7
                                        Win Day wrote:
                                        > Why? Fireworks is an IMAGE editing application. It's not meant to be
                                        > used to create a website; that's what Dreamweaver is for.
                                        >
                                        > Not only that, Fireworks is a WEB image editing application. You
                                        > shouldn't need to work with large blocks of text in Fireworks, because
                                        > you should not be putting large blocks of text into web images.

                                        Completely agree but Fireworks is also used for prototyping. Although I
                                        would not export large blocks of text I set in Fireworks as a graphic
                                        for use on a final Web site, I might export a comp or mockup in JPG or
                                        other format for client approval, or export a temporary version with
                                        interactivity (with the text as images) for application
                                        prototyping/wireframming or export to Flash/Director/whatever for
                                        finalizing animation and scripting there (and in that case I might
                                        absolutely want large blocks of correctly set text in my layout) and
                                        other things of the sort.

                                        IMO, text handling in general is one of Fireworks' weakest areas and,
                                        for me, this is unacceptable in the 8th version of such an otherwise
                                        sophisticated graphics application. Despite my disagreement with the OP
                                        and his insulting attitude, I completely agree with him that the limited
                                        way Fireworks handles text justification is not good enough, not even close.

                                        My $0.02

                                        --
                                        St�phane Bergeron
                                        reach : connect : communicate
                                        http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                                        blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                                        http://www.pixelyzed.com
                                        • 17. Re: justify
                                          Level 7
                                          "Win Day" <winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com> wrote in message
                                          news:r0dl92l6rargv0trt3t6g6lspa0urc24t5@4ax.com...
                                          >
                                          > Why? Fireworks is an IMAGE editing application. It's not meant to be
                                          > used to create a website; that's what Dreamweaver is for.

                                          Exactly my point. Your two paragraphs are the longer explanation for my two
                                          sentences, unless you were responding to someone else. I hope you didn't
                                          misread my word "reasonable" as "unreasonable" because that would be the
                                          opposite of my intended meaning.

                                          8^J

                                          -- Tony


                                          • 18. Re: justify
                                            Level 7
                                            On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:13:23 -0400, "Anthony Bollinger"
                                            <tonyb2006@NEVERsendto.org> wrote:

                                            >"Win Day" <winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com> wrote in message
                                            >news:r0dl92l6rargv0trt3t6g6lspa0urc24t5@4ax.com...
                                            >>
                                            >> Why? Fireworks is an IMAGE editing application. It's not meant to be
                                            >> used to create a website; that's what Dreamweaver is for.
                                            >
                                            >Exactly my point. Your two paragraphs are the longer explanation for my two
                                            >sentences, unless you were responding to someone else. I hope you didn't
                                            >misread my word "reasonable" as "unreasonable" because that would be the
                                            >opposite of my intended meaning.
                                            >
                                            >8^J
                                            >
                                            >-- Tony
                                            >

                                            Sorry, Tony, the multiple quote levels got confusing! And I think I
                                            read this wrong:

                                            >Somehow, this seems reasonable. Browsers show text all the time. FW should
                                            >cater more to graphics.
                                            >

                                            I originally read it as meaning "FW should cater to more than
                                            graphics".

                                            I understand Stephane's concern about prototyping. And I agree that
                                            it would be nice if FW handled text better.

                                            However: studies on readability usually come to the conclusion that
                                            except in very limited circumstances, fully justified text is not as
                                            readable as text that is left justified/ragged right. Narrow
                                            newspaper columns are one of the only exceptions; and since the
                                            columns ARE so narrow, you don't generally get that really weird
                                            stretching that was indicated in the OP's message.

                                            Win
                                            --
                                            Win Day, Wild Rose Websites
                                            http://www.wildrosewebsites.com
                                            winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com
                                            Skype winifredday
                                            • 19. Re: justify
                                              Level 7
                                              Win Day wrote:
                                              > However: studies on readability usually come to the conclusion that
                                              > except in very limited circumstances, fully justified text is not as
                                              > readable as text that is left justified/ragged right. Narrow
                                              > newspaper columns are one of the only exceptions; and since the
                                              > columns ARE so narrow, you don't generally get that really weird
                                              > stretching that was indicated in the OP's message.

                                              Oh yes, I agree that fully justified text is not ideal for readability.
                                              I was just commenting on Fireworks' text handling in general terms. It
                                              really is one of its weakest points and not because of how it handles
                                              text justification. That is just one example.

                                              As for the weird stretching, more sophisticated graphics applications
                                              like Illustrator or InDesign handle the same thing much better than
                                              Fireworks and you'll never see that kind of stretching (unless you
                                              specifically ask for it). InDesign even has different options to
                                              minimize "rivers" within justified text blocks and keep a consistent
                                              text "color".

                                              --
                                              St�phane Bergeron
                                              reach : connect : communicate
                                              http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                                              blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                                              http://www.pixelyzed.com