20 Replies Latest reply on Mar 28, 2014 4:39 AM by LiezlAdobeID

    [PrE 12] Disk Menu Quality Problem

    LiezlAdobeID

      Hi.  I use Abobe Elements 12. When I add menus to my project the quality of the menu looks terrible - even before I burn the disk when I go to "preview" immediately the quality of the photo and the text looks grainy and faded.   And the final product looks the same.  The actual footage looks fab.  Please can someone help me?

       

      [Title was edited to reflect the problem more accurately - Hunt]

       

      Message was edited by: Bill Hunt

        • 1. Re: I need help!!
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          [Moved to Elements forum.]

          • 2. Re: I need help!!
            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            You are in the wrong forum... Please go to http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere_elements

             

            From the Premiere Elements Information FAQ http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1042180

            •What operating system? This should include specific minor version numbers, like "Mac OSX v10.6.8"---not just "Mac".

            •Have you installed any recent program or OS updates? (If not, you should. They fix a lot of problems.)

            •What kind(s) of image file(s)? When talking about camera raw files, include the model of camera.

            •If you are getting error message(s), what is the full text of the error message(s)?

            •What were you doing when the problem occurred?

            •What other software are you running?

            •Tell us about your computer hardware. How much RAM is installed?  How much free space is on your system (C:) drive?

            •Has this ever worked before?  If so, do you recall any changes you made to Premiere Elements, such as adding Plug-ins, brushes, etc.?  Did you make any changes to your system, such as updating hardware, printers or drivers; or installing/uninstalling any programs?

            And some other questions...

            •What are you editing, and does your video have a red line over it BEFORE you do any work?

            •Have you viewed the tutorial links at http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1275830 page?

            •Which version of Quicktime do you have installed?

            • 3. Re: I need help!!
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Jim,

               

              Thank you - problem will be handled.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: [PrE 12] Disk Menu Quality Problem
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                LiezlAdobeID,

                 

                Welcome to the Premiere Elements Forum, thanks to Jim Simon.

                 

                John T. has asked some very important questions, to help you solve your quality issue, with Menus in PrE. I have also edited the Title of the post, to more accurately reflect the issue(s), that you are dealing with. This will help get more eyes onto your problem, plus will benefit others, who Search the PrE forum for similar issues. I hope that you do not mind.

                 

                Also, with regards to the Preview for DVD and BD authoring, that Preview is just that - a "preview," or an emulation of the disc. It is useful to test navigation, but is NOT useful to discern quality. That is best done in other ways.

                 

                For a DVD-Video Project, I will use Preview for a preliminary check, to make sure that navigation is good. Then, I Burn to Folder (not to a blank disc yet), and will test that VIDEO_TS folder (with necessary files), on my computer via a DVD software player. Next step will be to use a separate burning utility, like the great free ImgBurn, to create a DVD-RW (Rewriteable disc), and will test that in about six DVD/BD players, plus in my computer's multi-drive. If all is good, then I stick that DVD-RW back in the stack, to be reused, and will do my final burn to disc for delivery, on a Verbatim, Tayio-Yuden or Falcon Pro blank disc. Once, 99% of my DVD Projects were commercial, in that I was charging clients to edit the video, and then produce the DVD's. Now, they are mostly my personal Projects. With over 2000 discs delivered to clients, using the above workflow, I have never had one disc returned.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: [PrE 12] Disk Menu Quality Problem
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  LiezlAdobeID

                   

                  What computer operating system is your Premiere Elements 12 running on?

                   

                  What specific Movie Menu theme have you selected and have you customized it in the Movie Menu section of the program?

                  If so, in what ways have you customized it?

                   

                  What is your project preset? If you do not know, please check Premiere Elements Expert workspace Edit Menu/Project Settings/General and its Editing Mode, Timebase, Frame Size, and Pixel Aspect Ratio readings whether they are grayed out or not.

                   

                  How many Timeline markers do you have (and what kind), and how many main menu and scene menu pages do you end up with for the project?

                   

                  How many Movie Menu themes have you looked so far and which ones?

                   

                  Let us start here and then move forward based on your reply.

                   

                  Thank you.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: I need help!!
                    LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                    Thank you for pointing me in the right direction

                    • 7. Re: I need help!!
                      LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                      Hi John

                       

                      Thank you very much for your quick response.

                       

                      I have been using Adobe Premiere Elements 8 for the last 5 years and upgraded to Elements 12 last week when my video camera (Sony HDR XR520) broke down and I had to replace it.  I am now using a Canon XA10.  I have been making DVD's (running time between 1 hour and 1 and a half hours) for the last couple of years (over 60 including a couple of HD projects) using my old camera and editing and burning with Elements 8 (the HD ones I burned on Blue Ray).  I have never experienced this type of problem before, not with the SD DVD's or the HD Blue Rays.

                       

                      In answer to your questions, please see below.  I am not very cleued up with PC tech talk so please bear with me:

                       

                      •What operating system? This should include specific minor version numbers, like "Mac OSX v10.6.8"---not just "Mac".

                      Processor: Intel (R) Core (TM) i5 CPU 650@3.20 GHz

                      *RAM:  4GB

                      *64bit Operating System

                       

                      •Have you installed any recent program or OS updates? (If not, you should. They fix a lot of problems.)

                      *  I installed version 12 of Elements.

                       

                      •What kind(s) of image file(s)? When talking about camera raw files, include the model of camera.

                      * Canon XA10

                      * AVCHD video (XP+ - not HD but very high quality)

                      * Frame width:  1440

                      * Frame height:  1080

                      * Frame rate:  25 frames/second

                       

                      *When going into the project settings on Elements 12, the following info is available:

                      *Editing mode:  HDV 1080i

                      *Timebase: 25 frames per second

                      *Frame width and height the same as above

                      *Pixel aspect ratio:  HD Anamorphic 1080 (1.333)

                      *Display format:  25 fps timecode (this area is not blanked out and there is another option available - "frames")

                      *Title safe area: 20 wide x 20 high (can be changed)

                      *Action safe area: 10 wide x 10 high (can be changed)

                       

                      I did some intensive editing of about 80 short clips onto a 3 minute song (something I do regularly on Elements 8, with both SD and HD), as well as a few longer clips after that.  There are two menu markers.  The entire dvd is about 8 minutes long so far.   I still need to add footage but I wanted to test the quality first before finishing the entire project and then ending up with a problem like this I regularly do DVD's and Blue Rays of between 1 hour and 1 hour 30 minutes on Elements 8.

                       

                      •If you are getting error message(s), what is the full text of the error message(s)?

                      No error messages, just terrible looking menus (blurry and grainy).  I tried the first menu on the "slideshow" option - dont know why it's called slideshow? ("pan and zoom") and also the first menu on the "entertainment" option ( "art in motion").  Then I add a high def picture (more than 5mb) and music with motion menus.  Both the preview screen as well as the final, burned DVD looks blurry.

                       

                      •What were you doing when the problem occurred?

                      Previewing my project

                       

                      •What other software are you running?

                      Nothing

                       

                      •Tell us about your computer hardware. How much RAM is installed?  How much free space is on your system (C:) drive?

                      All answered above I think.  21GB of 97GB free on my C drive.  I do download my actual footage to my D drive (530GB of 830GB free space), then edit, and before finalising the DVD I move the footage to the folder (also in D drive) containing all the Elements files, music and pictures I used in the DVD.  Then just re-link the footage.  Hope this makes sense?

                       

                      •Has this ever worked before?  If so, do you recall any changes you made to Premiere Elements, such as adding Plug-ins, brushes, etc.?  Did you make any changes to your system, such as updating hardware, printers or drivers; or installing/uninstalling any programs?

                      No changes after installing the new software.

                       

                      And some other questions...

                      •What are you editing, and does your video have a red line over it BEFORE you do any work?

                      No red line, everything works like a charm.  The footage also looks great.  Its just the menus!

                       

                      •Have you viewed the tutorial links at http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1275830 page?

                      Will do so - thanks

                       

                      •Which version of Quicktime do you have installed?

                      7.7.4

                       

                      Thanks a million - let me know if you need any more info.

                       

                      Regards

                      Liezl

                      • 8. Re: [PrE 12] Disk Menu Quality Problem
                        LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                        Hi Billl

                         

                        Thank you very much for message.  I will definitely look into your recommendations.

                         

                        Regards

                        Liezl

                        • 9. Re: [PrE 12] Disk Menu Quality Problem
                          LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                          Dear ATR

                           

                          Thank you for your feedback.

                           

                          I think I answered most of your questions in my reply to John T. Smith.

                           

                          Regarding the timeline markers, there are 2 and they are both "scene markers".  I have one "main menu" page and one "scene" page.

                           

                          Please let me know if I can supply you with any more info.

                           

                          Regards

                          Liezl

                          • 10. Re: I need help!!
                            LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                            Hi John

                             

                            Hope you are well today.  I was just doing a bit of testing to try and fix my problem and came across the following.  When I check my image files on my pc, it shows

                            Frame width:  1440 

                            Frame height:  1080

                            Frame rate:  25 frames/second

                            as stated in my previous reply to you.

                             

                            But when I check the detail on my camera, its says the frame rate is 50i, (with a recording mode of XP+ as stated previously).

                             

                            Not sure why the files on the PC and the files on the camera are not the same?  Could it be that Elements changed it?

                             

                            Thanks your feedback will be much appreciated.

                             

                            Regards

                            Liezl

                            • 11. Re: I need help!!
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              Liezl

                               

                              No problem for your 1440 x 1080 HD Anamorphic 16:9 footage @ 25 interlaced frames per second.

                               

                              Based on the information that you wrote in post 10, your Premiere Elements 12 project preset for that source should be

                               

                              PAL

                              AVCHD

                              HD1080i25

                               

                              Please note that 50i refers to 50 fields per second which is the counterpart of 25 interlaced frames per second.

                              http://neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html

                               

                              For further details of how Premiere Elements is interpreting your please right click the video thumbnail in Project Assets, select Interpret Footage, and check out the Frame Rate information.

                               

                              If you are allowing the program to set the project preset for you, you should check to see what it has set. See Edit Menu/Project Setting/General. If it is giving you its default of 1080i (1920 x 1080 @ 25 interlaced frames per second), then set the project preset manually. Please refer to

                              http://www.atr935.blogspot.com/2013/04/pe11-accuracy-of-automatic-project.html

                               

                              If you need any clarification on this, please do not hesitate to ask.

                               

                              Thank you.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: I need help!!
                                LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                                Hi ATR

                                 

                                You are a genius!!!  You have solved my problem - thank you so much!

                                 

                                The info you sent me regarding interlacing and automatic project presets was very helpful.

                                 

                                I have done the following: 

                                 

                                1.  Created a new project

                                2.  Settings: as per your advice 

                                PAL

                                AVCHD

                                HD1080i25

                                3.   I ticked "force selected project settings on this project"

                                4.  Then I went to "File" -  "Add media from"  - "Elements Organiser"

                                5.  I selected some of my footage and added it to the timeline

                                6.  Added a couple of menu markers just to test

                                7.  Picked the  "Pan and Zoom" menu from the "Tools" menu

                                8.  Added a photo on both menus (main and one scene menu) for testing

                                9.  I did a project preview

                                 

                                Result:

                                1.The menus look much better

                                2. When I check the "Project Settings" it still gives the same info as mentioned above (comment 7)?  Is this OK?

                                 

                                *Editing mode:  HDV 1080i

                                *Timebase: 25 frames per second

                                *Frame width and height the same as above

                                *Pixel aspect ratio:  HD Anamorphic 1080 (1.333)

                                * Fields:  Upper field first

                                *Display format:  25 fps timecode (this area is not blanked out and there is another option available - "frames")

                                *Title safe area: 20 wide x 20 high (can be changed)

                                *Action safe area: 10 wide x 10 high (can be changed)

                                 

                                I have checked the DVD on my TV (there are a few small horizontal lines running through the footage (especially white, moving parts)- should I deinterlace the footage?  I understand from the article that deinterlacing should only be used when the DVD is mainly going to be watched on a PC.  And when I check it on my PC the quality is definity not as good as on the TV.  After reading the article about interlacing - is there not a "middle ground" that can be used so that the project quality is good on both TV and PC?

                                 

                                Another question I have - is it possible to change a projects settings after work has been done on it?  For example, my previous "very blurry menu" project - I have done quite a lot of editing.  Would it be possible to change the settings, or can I export  the detail and then import it into a new, correctly set up project?  Otherwise I'll have to start from scratch

                                 

                                Also.  I have to produce a DVD for an American friend of mine.  With my camera settings, which pre-set would you recommend I use for his DVD - I assume I will have to use the NTSC setting?

                                 

                                Thanks again for your help - it is much appreciated.

                                 

                                Regards

                                Liezl

                                • 13. Re: I need help!!
                                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                                  Liezl

                                   

                                  Both TV players and computer players typically come with deinterlacing features for interlaced video. The deinterlacing method used by a player and its effectiveness might vary. You could look at other players. But check out the players involved to assure that the deinterlacing mode is On, if it has such a mode. Some players may come with a user option to turn this feature On or Off.

                                   

                                  Are you seeing issues especially at time of greatest motion in the playback?

                                   

                                  You could do a mini test run where you try for some corrective action on the Timeline content before the export. Right click the video with the problem, select Field Options, and, then in the Field Options dialog, select Reverse Field Dominance. Then determine if the export has less problems at playback in those sections with more motion than others in the video.

                                   

                                  The Adobe party line is that the user cannot chance the project settings once the project has been started. However I have written about how that can be done under certain circumstances. The approach is to edit the Notepad document of the saved/closed project. The following is my blog post on that. Often it is easier just to start a new project.

                                  http://www.atr935.blogspot.com/2013/05/pe11-changing-project-settings-without.html

                                   

                                  After you check out the approach in the blog post, if you want to try it, please let me know the from and to details for the project settings, and I will give it a look to see if the circumstances would be applicable in your situation.

                                   

                                  Go with the NTSC Dolby DVD end product for your US viewers. Here is one of the online articles that discusses the matter.

                                  http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/55/859232

                                   

                                  Please check out the above and let us know of your progress when you get a chance.

                                   

                                  We are very pleased with your progress. Great job.

                                   

                                  ATR

                                  • 14. Re: I need help!!
                                    LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                                    Hi ATR

                                     

                                    Thanks again for your detailed feedback.

                                     

                                    I would like to try and change the project settings if possible.  If not possible its will be ok, I'll then just have to do the editing again.

                                     

                                    The "from" details are as per conversation 7 above (the blurry menu project):

                                    *Editing mode:  HDV 1080i

                                    *Timebase: 25 frames per second

                                    * Frame width:  1440

                                    * Frame height:  1080

                                    *Pixel aspect ratio:  HD Anamorphic 1080 (1.333)

                                    *Display format:  25 fps timecode

                                    *Title safe area: 20 wide x 20 high

                                    *Action safe area: 10 wide x 10 high

                                     

                                    The "to" details are as per the "forced settings" you recommended earlier:

                                    PAL

                                    AVCHD

                                    HD1080i25

                                     

                                    I am still not sure why the "Project Settings"  on the new project (with the "forced change" with the menus displaying correctly) still gives the same info as the old project (with the incorrect settings and blurry menu)?

                                     

                                    Hope you have a great day.

                                     

                                    Regards

                                    Liezl

                                    • 15. Re: I need help!!
                                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                                      Liezl

                                       

                                      Thanks for your reply.

                                       

                                      After reviewing the from and to, my scheme of changing the project settings after the project has been created is not going to be applicable.

                                       

                                      Then I had another idea about the from and to situation. Each disc menu theme can exist with three different .psd file sets, one "s" for standard, one "w" for standard widescreen, and one "hd" for one of the HD formats. It is the choice of project preset that determines which one of those sets is available to you in the Movie Menu section of the opened project. You can tell which one the program is displaying by checking the Notepad document of the saved/closed project. That is the how to answer for "s" and "w" and "hd". The easier way for "hd" is to look at the upper right corner of its thumbnail in the Movie Menu display in the opened project and look for the "hd" marking. I did that for the PAL AVCHD HD1080i25 project preset and PAL HDV HDV HD1080i25, and each made available the "hd" menu set in the opened Premiere Elements project. So much for that idea.

                                       

                                      For the project with the unsatisfactory menu, I am left with the following suggestion, if you have not tried this already...

                                      a. Open the problem project

                                      b. Go To Tools/Movie Menu and hit the Reset Button to get rid of the menu that you already applied.

                                      c. Save/Close the project.

                                      d. Open the project and apply the menu again and decide whether or not the end product menus present any better.

                                       

                                      Also, please reflect on the overall workflow to determine if you made any subtle changes that might be factoring into the good versus the not so good results that you had previously.

                                       

                                      Looking forward to your results.

                                       

                                      Thanks for all the follow ups on the troubleshooting. Much appreciated.

                                       

                                      ATR

                                      • 16. Re: I need help!!
                                        LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                                        Hi ATR

                                         

                                        Hope you are well and apologies for the delay in sending feedback.

                                         

                                        I am very happy to report that your final suggestion (opening the project, resetting the menu, saving, closing and then opening up again and applying the menu again) WORKED!  I'm not quite sure why, as the project settings are still the same, but it worked and now I don't have to do all the editing all over again.  Thank you!

                                         

                                        I did also check the overall workflow and (if my eyes are not mistaken) the quality of the footage looks better - is this possible or am I hallucinating   The camera/software still struggles with lines - for example people wearing stripy shirts, especially if I zoom in and out or pan.

                                         

                                        Can I please ask another question?

                                         

                                        Regarding the US viewers - do I have to "pre-set" the project to NTSC as well?  And then when burning to disk I use NTSC Dolby DVD.  Would you be so kind as to recommend project settings for my footage if possible?

                                         

                                        Thanks a million and have a great day.

                                         

                                        Regards

                                        Liezl 

                                        • 17. Re: I need help!!
                                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                                          Liezl

                                           

                                          Thanks for the updates and good news. Sounds like lots of progress there. Good job.

                                           

                                          SInce you have a HD project (16:9), best target the 16:9 export choices.

                                           

                                          DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc - NTSC_Widescreen_Dolby DVD (for your US viewers).

                                           

                                          And, for the HD exports, go with those whose export settings description includes "1920 x 1080 16:9" instead of "1440 x 1080 HD anamorphic 16:9". Both of those are supposed to display at 1920 x 1080, but the 1440 x 1080 depends on a 16:9 flag to stretch it for display after encoding. That makes the 1440 x 1080 HD anamorphic 16:9 dependent on the player recognition of the flag. We take that latter factor out of the equation by using the 1920 x 1080 16:9 choice which is what it is.

                                           

                                          Although NTSC and PAL do not apply to HD the way that they do to SD, the frame rates can have regional significance.

                                           

                                          The following is a sampling of responses of NTSC vs PAL and players.

                                          http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/55/859232

                                           

                                          Best wishes

                                           

                                          ATR

                                          • 18. Re: I need help!!
                                            LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                                            Dear ATR

                                             

                                            Hope you are well.

                                             

                                            I have finished my project.  I did experience a bit of a run-around with the settings/menus again.  It looks like I have to do the whole process you recommended (opening the project, resetting, save/close, and opening and re-applying the menu) every time after I've made changes to the project. 

                                             

                                            Even when I start a new project and "enforce" the suggested settings (PAL, AVCHD, HD1080i25), it looks like Elements automatically adjusts the presets back to the default settings everytime I edit the project.  Is there not perhaps another pre-set option I could use that would eliminate this problem? 

                                             

                                            The menus are much, much better, but the letters are still not 100% which is why I'm wondering if there is not another pre-set I could use?

                                             

                                            Regarding the US DVD - do I stick with the PAL, AVCHD, HD1080i25 pre-set and then when writing the disk I use the NTSC_Widescreen_Dolby DVD option?  I suppose the preset should also be NTSC?  If so, please be so kind as to recommend the best pre-set for my AVCHD video (XP+).

                                             

                                            Thanks a lot and have a great day!

                                             

                                            Regards

                                            Liezl

                                            • 19. Re: I need help!!
                                              LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                                              Hi ATR

                                               

                                              Hope you are well. 

                                               

                                              Just an update - just to check I imported my raw footage into Elements 8, applied menus, and burned a disk.  The menus look perfect, but the quality of the footage is not as good as when using Elements 12.  The disk also took an awfully long time to prepare and burn.

                                               

                                              I will have to consider perhaps looking at other software if I cannot sort out this menu problem (dont know if another problem would be able to do better).  I am a bit desperate as I have 3 projects-in-waiting and I do not want to start with the editing if the end product is not going to be perfect.

                                               

                                              For future another option would be to perhaps shoot in a different mode?

                                               

                                              I would really appreciate feedback on this and my previous post - thanks a lot for all your help so far.

                                               

                                              Regards

                                              Liezl

                                               

                                              Regards

                                              • 20. Re: I need help!!
                                                LiezlAdobeID Level 1

                                                Hi there - sorry it's me again

                                                 

                                                Just to let you know - I tested my footage with a "PAL-DV-Widescreen 48kHz"   pre-set (which is what I used to use with premier 8) and the menus and footage look great.

                                                 

                                                Still testing but it looks like I'll have to stick to that option?

                                                 

                                                Regards

                                                Liezl