20 Replies Latest reply on Feb 28, 2014 7:17 AM by A.T. Romano

    Question about rendering png files

    P1965 Level 1

      Hello all,

       

      Using Photo shop 11, I have created several 'fake' images, in particular when using the 'magic extractor tool', to add a comical or special graphics to my Pre project.  (eg: a plane or bird flying through a scene)  The results have been very good, even in HD format but the question I have is:  Everytime I open the Pre project, those png files don't stay rendered from the last save so the have to be rendered every time it's opened.  It isn't really a big deal as in only takes a few seconds for the most part, but just wondering why or if there is another method for these?

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Question about rendering png files
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Can you tell us just a bit more, please?

           

          What OS version are you running PrE 11 on?

           

          More details on your computer would be good, and especially where the Scratch Disks are set up.

          Do you have any external HDD's being used?

          If so how?

          Where are the Scratch Disks located, i.e. "Same as Project," and on an internal HDD, or other?

          When you Open that Project, do you get any error messages referring to Preview Files, or similar?

           

          Good luck, and that should get us started tracking down why the Preview Files are not being found.

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Question about rendering png files
            P1965 Level 1

            Running win 7, 64bit, 8Gb RAM, dual quad processor.  Currently have elements and pshop 11 on the 'C' 500Gb main drive with the projects and subsequent files located on a second internal 1Tb drive (scratch disc) - also where the media is stored in respective folders for each project.

            There are no errors when opening, and the files are found, there's just an orange line above each png file and the rest is still green. Although sometimes the sections where black video has been used is also not rendered....

            • 3. Re: Question about rendering png files
              P1965 Level 1

              Interesting that there is no solution for this and odd that the two Adobe programs don't work togther.

              • 4. Re: Question about rendering png files
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Thank you for that information.

                 

                Most instances of "lost Preview Files," are related to the use of either an external, or networked HDD (Hard Disc Drive), being used for the Premiere Elements Scratch Disks.

                 

                As you are using internal HDD's (your second physical HDD for Scratch Disks), that removes the main cause from the mix.

                 

                To give you a little background on the Preview Files, they are created in the Scratch Disks, where one has located them, say "Same As Project," (the default, but user changable). The files are written in the Preview Files folder, when the Timeline is Rendered, and are then linked to the Project via the PREL (the actual Project File). For playback, those files are read, so that one gets the smoothest possible playback.

                 

                The links are absolute Paths, so that if any part of that Path is altered, then the program cannot follow the link, to those files. This breaking of the links most often happens with external HDD's, which can have their Drive Letter assigned differently, when they are plugged in, or turned on. About the same can happen with a networked HDD, which might be assigned a different Drive Letter, or might not be available.

                 

                When PrE detects a break in the links, it will usually ask "Where is file ___ ?" where the missing file(s) is/are the Preview Files. You are not getting that error message, so something else is likely causing the behavior that you see, by the program not being able to access the Preview Files.

                 

                On a Mac, we also see issuses with HDD Permissions, where the user's account is not set up to allow all programs to access all folders and all HDD's. We see this less often on a PC.

                 

                Now, if you are not running PrE via an Administrator Account, I would test by launching PrE with an Administrator Account, by Rt-clicking on the icon on the Desktop, and choosing Run As Administrator. Does that get you access to those Preview Files? Does that orange-yellow line ABOVE the PNG Clips turn green then?

                 

                Also, are you also loosing the green line (or no colored line) for other Meida, such as Video, or Titles, or is it JUST those PNG files?

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Question about rendering png files
                  P1965 Level 1

                  For some reason, I don't have that option in the list to log on as an admin. As for the 'green line' It seems that all other media that is video or pics etc., is rendered (green line) with only the png files not rendered, (orange line). However, the last time I opened it, only a couple titles were not rendered, the rest was ok - weird. 

                  Note that I always ensure the entire project is rendered and saved each time prior to closing.

                  Anyway, as I initially stated, this really isn't a big deal since the quantity and size of the files not rendered on occasion is minimal, and only takes a few seconds to render them but just wondering what the cause was and if it there is a cure.

                  • 6. Re: Question about rendering png files
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Thanks for that info.

                     

                    Are you saying that in Win7, when you Rt-click on the PrE icon, you do not have the option to "Run As Administrator," in the drop-down list? That is odd, indeed.

                     

                    I am at a loss to explain why the PNG files are not included in the Preview Files, generated with Render - yellow-orange line turns green.

                     

                    Rendering of the Timeline (hitting Enter on a PC, or Return on a Mac) will generate Preview Files, and store those in the Scratch Disks, in the Previews folder for that Project, for everything included in the WAB (Work Area Bar). When those are generated, they are linked to your Timeline, and are then used for the smoothest possible Playback. Unless one adds an Effect, or some form of Overlay to the Clips/Images, the line *should* remain green, and the Preview Files used for Playback.

                     

                    Why the PNG's are not "sticking," is a mystery, but maybe others have some ideas. While I use PNG's fairly often, I use PSD's much more. I cannot recall having any issue with either, when Rendered. I am now at a loss to explain why you are getting portions of your Timeline un-Rendered, upon Opening the Project. We have addressed everything that I can think of, except that Run As Administrator, which seems unavailable to you, and again, for some mysterious reason.

                     

                    Let's wait to see if someone else has a thought, or observation, that is eluding me.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Question about rendering png files
                      P1965 Level 1

                      I should also note that it also randomly occurs with the PSD files, generated within PShop 11.  So to reiterate, the only occasional non-rendered files are all created within or from the Adobe suite. This tends to make me think it may be a random Adobe software issue since all other media added is fine.  

                      When it comes to 'one of kind' things that can happen, ... well I'd be the leader in that category!

                      Anyway, thanks for your input, and again it really is just a minor issue.

                      • 8. Re: Question about rendering png files
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        P1965,

                         

                        Thank you for that additional clarification.

                         

                        I am still at a loss to explain what might be happening. I have never lost the Preview (Rendered) Files for either the PSD's, or PNG's (even for the few JPEG's, that I occassionally have to use). I am still thinking of possibilities, but am coming up blank.

                         

                        As a test, and especially as you have some PSD's, and PNG's to work with, when you have a moment, create a New Project. Import only some of those "problem" Image files, and arrange them on your Timeline. I would not add anything to them, at this point, and would Render that Timeline. Save it, then close it, and PrE. Get a cup of coffee, and come back, Opening that Project, and looking at the Timeline - does this test version stay Rendered?

                         

                        Good luck, and that is all that I can think of, at this point, but will test on my computer, as well. You are using PrE 11 (same version as your PsE) right? My Images will come from Photoshop, but that should make zero difference.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Question about rendering png files
                          P1965 Level 1

                          Yes, using Pre 11 in conjunction with Photoshop 11 and all still photos have been resized there to the suggested 1000 x 750, prior to importing to the Pre projects that are SD.  I will give your suggestion of a new project utilizing only the PNG and PSD's a try and post the results.

                          Thanks,

                          • 10. Re: Question about rendering png files
                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                            P1965

                             

                            When you create your object(s) on transparent background as .png in Photoshop Elements 11, are you saying that you do this

                            a. File Menu/Save As and then selecting .PNG

                            or

                            b. File Menu/Save to Web/selecting either PNG-8 or PNG-24 with the transparency with check mark next to it?

                             

                            The render indicated line seen after save/close of a Timeline content rendered project is a known issue going back many versions. No explanation was ever found although that the previews involved remain alive and well in their hard drive save location when the reopened project is displaying an unrendered status  If you have a HD project, those associated preview files are MPEG2.mpeg 960 x 540 with a companion .xmp file.

                             

                            I have been trying to reproduce the results that you wrote about for your Premiere Elements 11 project and cannot. I have been creating the .png in Photoshop Elements 11 with the File Menu/Save As for the .png.

                             

                            The type of issue that you present can present for some and then not for others. Lots of variables with the same end result. Have you gotten into selective rendering of Timeline content using the gray tabs of the Work Area Bar to isolate these segments that give the appearance of needing render to get the best possible preview? My philosophy on this has been to move on, knowing that you rendered that content once and found the content OK. However, if you do further edits in the re-opened project that is another matter.

                             

                            ATR

                            • 11. Re: Question about rendering png files
                              P1965 Level 1

                              AT Romano,

                               

                              Yes, I have been creating (modifying) photos in Pshop with transparent backgrounds and then saving them as the program defaults to (usually PSD) and then directed to the folder where the other images for that Pre project are stored.  Then of course, added from that said location to the project.  As above, the timeline sections are rendered after any editing done and then before closing, I double check and render all sections and save it before closing.

                               

                              For whatever reason, every time I then open the project moving forward, there is always one or even a few small areas the width of the file on the timeline, that have that persistant orange line above them.  These small areas are most often the PSD or PNG files and occasionally they are text sections that were created within the project.  The weirest part is that it is not always the same ones,  but always one or more of the above file types.  Guessing this must just be a random thing to some and not others like you suggest.

                              The rest of the project remains rendered upon opening....

                              • 12. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                P1965

                                 

                                Thanks for the update. The render before and its status after save/close/reopen has been a puzzling one for several Premiere Elements versions.

                                 

                                I am not reproducing here the issue that you describe with Photoshop Elements 11 and Premiere Elements 11 and the file types in use.

                                 

                                I wonder if you would have time for a mini experiment. If so....

                                 

                                By the nature of your work, you are placing your .png/.psd on Video 2 above your video on Video 1.

                                With that all in place and green line or no colored line over the Timeline content, you save/close the project.

                                 

                                In this mini experiment, could you set up you Timeline content so your video and the .png are side by side on Video 1 and both have a green line over them when you save close the project. Now, when you reopen this project, do you see an evidence of unrendered Timeline content as evidenced by the render line indicator system?

                                 

                                Looking forward to your results only if you have the time.

                                 

                                Best wishes.

                                 

                                ATR

                                • 13. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  ATR,

                                   

                                  I have now done one test Project in PrE 4.0, 11 & 12, using 50 PSD's, and 22 PNG's (didn't have 50 lying around), and some had Transparency, where many did not. All were sized to 720 x 480 (so that they would work well on PrE 4). I Rendered the Timeline, did a Save, the closed PrE. After a few minutes, I launched each version of PrE, and Opened the Project, and all showed as being Rendered - the green line was over each Still Image.

                                   

                                  I also cannot reproduce the results of loosing the Renders of any of the Images.

                                   

                                  In my case, the Projects were done with the Projects on D:\ and all media and Scratch Disks on E:\. On both laptops, C:\, D:\ and E:\ are all internals - no externals in the mix.

                                   

                                  Just my observations.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                    Hunt

                                     

                                    In these test runs, it is important to include the .png with transparency on Video 2 above the video on Video 1 as well as the png and video on a side by side basis on Video 1.

                                     

                                    There can be a scenario where video on Video 1 does not have a colored line above it on import (no edits) whereas the png does have the orange line above it on import (no edits) to Video 1.

                                     

                                    When the .png is placed on Video 2 above the video on Video 1, the render indicator line covers the whole duration of the clips when they have the same duration.

                                     

                                    But if you shorten the .png on Video 2, the render indicator line will just extend the length of the .png and the video under it.  And, the portion of video on Video 1 without th .png above it will have no colored line.

                                     

                                    In the overlapping area, the rendered (preview file) will not be one for the .png and one for the video, but the preview of the .png+video in one preview file.

                                     

                                    Every detail needs to be ruled in or out.

                                     

                                    ATR

                                     

                                    Add On...no external drives were in the mix. Just Local Disk C. This is an old story which I believe is not specific to .png files in particular. But, it is interesting in this case since is seems to present as a selective media matter.

                                    • 15. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                      P1965 Level 1

                                      Well I have made an error in the file type and apologize.  It turns out that on an expanded timeline view where this has been happening, it is actually the .swf files that are not retaining their rendering properties.  At first I had just assumed it was the .png or .psd's because the various sections with the issue had that in common. 

                                      I hadn't taken into account that through editing and changes to the timeline, that some animations had been added and this explains why each opening resulted in what appeared to be different files and locations that were not rendered.

                                       

                                      in summary, it is the .swf files that are not rendered when opening the project - that is, the animations included in the Pre11 program.

                                      • 16. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        ATR,

                                         

                                        Thank you for those instructions. I had placed the PSD's, and PNG's on Video 1.

                                         

                                        Will redo the tests, as soon as I get a moment, and place some of the PNG's with Transparency on Video 2, above material on Video 1.

                                         

                                        Will report on the tests.

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                                          Hunt

                                           

                                          Did you see P1965's latest post numbered 15. The files in question are .swf, not .png nor .psd files.

                                           

                                          More later.

                                           

                                          ATR

                                          • 18. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            ATR,

                                             

                                            I did, but not until I had posted my Reply # 16.

                                             

                                            I will need to download an SWF (I know that those can be highly problematic). As we are about the head out of town for our anniversary, it will likely not be until Monday, that I have time to search my systems, or on-line, for some test SWF files - or just create some in Flash.

                                             

                                            That does add a new dimension - the SWF files.

                                             

                                            Thanks,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                                              Hunt

                                               

                                              I will do some work on this later today. There are enough swf files in Premiere Elements Graphics to handle the task.

                                               

                                              Best wishes to you and your wife on your anniversary. Safe travel.

                                               

                                              ATR

                                              • 20. Re: Question about rendering png files
                                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                P1965

                                                 

                                                I did a quick run through in Premiere Elements 11 Windows 7 64 bit where Video 1 had a .wmv file and above its entire duration were placed several .swf files from the program's Graphics to cover the entire duration of the video on Video 1.

                                                 

                                                All was rendered before the save/close of the project.

                                                 

                                                When the project was reopened, the Timeline presented as rendered. No loss of the rendered Timeline content that was done prior to save/close.

                                                 

                                                Interestingly, if I moved one of the .swf file out of the line up of .swf files on Video 2 (gap left in Video 2 line up of swf files), that specific location above the Timeline now had the orange render indicator. Putting that .swf back in place resulted in the green indicator line above that Timeline content area WITHOUT having to do a render with Enter key, Render Button, or Timeline/Render Workspace.

                                                 

                                                ATR