16 Replies Latest reply on Jan 3, 2017 12:05 PM by BobLevine

    Our mature publishing industry

    Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

      Hello all,

       

      At the Washington DC InDesign User Group meeting last night, the question came up about the size of text labels and buttons and menus in InDesign. A young woman wanted bigger buttons and text menus and said that the Retina display was making an already small thing even smaller and harder to see and read.

       

      Another colleague and I were noting that many of us folks who have pioneered the use of these softwares are sailing along with gradually diminishing vision. I, too, am starting to wish for more "accessibility" in the menus, labels, and buttons of Adobe software.

       

      I am aware that interface design has long been built with pixels. When I designed my 3 configurator plugin panels (available at http://trainingonsite.com), the first thing I wanted to do was make the buttons bigger. But text labeling is fixed. The only thing I could do was make more space around tool buttons.

       

      Anyway, what are you doing to compensate for your vision? Are there software-based solutions? Hardware solutions? What is Adobe planning to do? I would think that we constitute a large portion of Adobe's customer base, no?

       

      Best to you,

       

      Mike Witherell in Maryland

        • 1. Re: Our mature publishing industry
          Ellis home Level 4

          This problem has been mentioned for a while now with the advent of very high res screens: 2500 and higher. At the Photoshop forums there are lengthy discussions and I think I saw a reply from someone from Adobe saying they are working on it. There are some workarounds mentioned. You can check them here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5980737#5980737. I work on a 27" screen 1920 x 1080 and it works great for my needs. Others, depending on their line of work, might require higher resolutions. My two cents.

          • 2. Re: Our mature publishing industry
            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Mike, I can't read the interface at any size without glasses, so what level of poor vision should the engineers of a design program accomodate? What I really don't want is less screen space, so despite my poor vision I don't want larger panels and menu items because that means less working space.

             

            If my vision couldn't be corrected by a new prescription I don't know how I would design effectively. I have found that progressives can't be used for screen work so I have a prescription optimized for mid-range (2-3 feet) with real glass.

            • 3. Re: Our mature publishing industry
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Michael Witherell wrote:

               

              Anyway, what are you doing to compensate for your vision?

              I bought a 30" monitor...

               

              And Ellis, We need LOWER resolution on the monitors, not higher. It would be really nice if some manufacturer would continue to offer a lower-resolution high quality display line. At 27" 1920 x 1080 is only marginally usable -- still not quite as large as my old 21" Sony artisan at 1200 x 1080.

              • 4. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                Rob D

                What I really don't want is less screen space, so despite my poor vision I don't want larger panels and menu items because that means less working space.

                Well, we all make certain tradeoffs in the workspace. I could stand a small increase in the size of tabs and menus to accomodate a little larger type, especially on a larger monitor like my 30"

                • 5. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                  Ellis home Level 4

                  Peter, you got me there. How do you reconcile lower-resolution with high quality display line. I do have also an old 26" Sony 1360 x 768 and the menus are gigantic compared to higher res screens.

                  • 6. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    It would be nice if there were an interface preference, otherwise one of us would be unhappy.

                    • 7. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      Resolution has nothing to do with the kind of quality I'm talking about. I mean hig-end color capability. It's practially impossible to find a monitor now in any size that's less than the 1920 x 1080 HD spec, but I'm not watching video, I'm editing photos. I understand that it's market driven, but most of the market is clueless about what they really need. My 17" laptop is a struggle at that size.

                      • 8. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Rob Day wrote:

                         

                        It would be nice if there were an interface preference, otherwise one of us would be unhappy.

                        It sure would, and I've been advocating for it for years. I didn't mean to suggest that you should have to live with a larger interface just to make me happy, but it seems unfair that I have to live with the small one to make all the youngsters happy.

                        • 9. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          youngsters

                          Thanks!

                          • 10. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                            Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                            So I see from reading these threads that the problem is split on two fronts: The new hi-dpi displays are generating their own buggy problems. Thanks for the links to the PS threads discussing this and the possible workarounds. The second and older problem is simply one of vision, even with common monitors.

                             

                            I wish InDesign would add to its preferences one like in Photoshop where you can choose to increase the UI font size. That would help. On the other hand, even when you set the PS preference to large, the text is scarcely any larger! Maybe more choices like Huge and Gigantic. That would leave then the problem of tool boxes. Many of those buttons are a scant 22px wide. It would be great if there was a preference where you could scale the tool box tools up (and have them completely altogether open instead of hiding tools under other tools).

                             

                            Both Mac and Windows have ways to increase UI text size, but it often doesn't act on Adobe interfaces. And I note that when using OS enhancements, it causes buggy problems. For example, if you increase the Mac OS mouse pointer size, it interferes with the PS paint brush diameter accuracy.

                            • 11. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                              Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                              Suppose you were able to replace your large desktop monitor with an even much bigger tv panel. Would you be willing to give up the better color accuracy of a monitor for the increased visual size of a 1080p tv screen? Has anyone tried that? How good is the color on current flat panel led lcd tvs? Are some tv panels decidedly superior in picture quality to others?

                              • 12. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                                MW Design Level 4
                                Suppose you were able to replace your large desktop monitor with an even much bigger tv panel...

                                 

                                I do work for a local screen printer. All their PC stations have LCD TVs. No name TVs, 28" to 32", set back a bit further than I use. They work out just fine.

                                 

                                 

                                Here's the thing. Would I do it? Dunno, but as I am working on replacing an aging desktop, I am thinking about it. Why? Because I began this madness using GEM Ventura on an amber monitor. When I stepped up to a paper white monitor, I thought I was in the big time. While I mainly did tech manuals, we still did add color too.

                                 

                                 

                                It was common early on to use one of the CMY channels for spot color (usually the CM channels). Garish on-screen once we got color monitors but shades of gray on the paper whites. If I can live/work with that, an LCD flat panel TV wouldn't be so bad. I still like my calibrated CRT for "accuracy"...as accurate as a back-lit display really is. But it is the color values that matter most to me. I can do the same quality of work on my LCD laptop. But I am also not color correcting high-end coffee table books. For layout work like I do now? I think they would be good enough.

                                 

                                 

                                Sooner or later I'll have to make a decision. It's a cheap experiement though. The screen printer I mention gets their LCDs from a local pawn shop for pennies on the dollar. If I go that route initially, the cost of a "real" monitor is the same down the road as if I purchase it when I buy the new system.

                                • 13. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  I barely have room on my desk for my 30" monitor. I have a 40" Samsung HD TV in the next room that isn't bad for TV, but I don't think I'd want to do color correction on it.

                                  • 14. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    This seems like a  preference more than a vision or generational problem. I want to be able to navigate the interface with as little clicking and scrolling as possible—I prefer the panels I use opened,  not docked, and I want to see a full spread at 100%. On my 27" iMac running at 2560x1440 I can do that, the interface text is small but I can read it:

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2014-02-27 at 3.39.20 PM.png

                                     

                                    If the interface were increased by 150% I would be forced to dock and scroll. The panels would take up almost as much space as the spread:

                                     

                                    150.png

                                     

                                    So maybe a preference could be built to redraw the entire interface to a prefered scale—doesn't sound easy

                                    • 15. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                                      py14466696

                                      I see we still don't have a fix.  How can I build my website when I can't see the interface.  Waste of time and money.  I am so disappointed in ADOBE.

                                      • 16. Re: Our mature publishing industry
                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                        What does building a website have to do with InDesign?