7 Replies Latest reply on Mar 5, 2014 11:18 AM by XDX2

    HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.


      My system:


      ProMAX ONE Plus - Hero - (Rivas) Base Configuration

      [2x] 8 Core Intel Xeon E5-2687w v2 @ 3.4GHz
      [2x] 12 Core Xeon E5-2697v2 @ 2.7GHz

      Total CPU Cores               Total CPU Cache
      16, 24                                  50 MB, 60 MB

      8 Slots Up to 128GB DDR3 1866MHz)


      •ProMAX ONE RAM Kingston 1x8GB 1600MHz DDR3 Reg ECC DRx4 -  16 (128 gb of ram total)

      •ProMAX FastMAX FX8+ 32TB *MUST ADD CONTROLLER CARD ATTO R680 or Areca 1882*

      •ProMAX ONE Plus Internal RAID 32TB

      •ProMAX ONE - LTO 6 Tape Drive Kit

      •PNY QUADRO K5000 4GB GDDR5 PCI-E for WIN


      •Crucial M4 512GB 2.5" Internal Solid State Drive

      •Blackmagic Design Decklink 4K Extreme

      •Red Rocket Card

      •Retrospect v.7.7 Professional for Windows



      My work flow:
      •From my Red (Scarlet) to internal 32tb internal raid storage.
      •From my internal raid into Premiere Pro.
      •Cache and project are stored in separate folders on the internal raid


      Out of the 128 gb ram that is on the system I have only 6 reserved for other applications.



      My Problem:
      The goal was to have a machine and software that I could put 4k files (r3d) into without having to render. Without having any lag, any skipped frames or bumps in the editing process. I wanted the biggest and baddest machine on the planet. I want to move as fast as I can think/edit in 4k r3d format (or any 4k for that matter) without having to render anything, in full resolution, no dropped frames.


      The problem is I can't do that, I know I should be able to, right?
      This is a beast of a system, few machines get built  better than this (maybe only IMAX machines), yet I have a hard time just putting the 4k footage into the timeline and playing it, let alone editing and coloring a full project.

      When I put footage in a timeline I get the yellow link across the top. When I hit play it will play fine for a moment and then start skipping frames like crazy, and that's just playing the footage at full resolution.

      Ex: A 14:51 clip will have 14,823 dropped frames, in just the play back alone. I can not edit a 2hr movie like this.


      I'm lost. Help! What am I doing wrong?
      A 16 core machine with a 128 gb or ram running top of the line graphics cards (and a red card) should be able to manage this type of work load, right?Especially for the price (40k).


      Any answers?

        • 1. Re: HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.
          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

          The Problem is the software right now cannot handle the 4K processing of Red's codec in full resolution preview yet due to the processing latency of the player and codec. You are going to have to preview in half Resolution with Adobe right now and that would be even with a rocket card. I am not sure who told you that full res preview was possible in Adobe with Red 4K but that is not correct. Only Red Cine with GPU acceleration for debayering is allowing that right now. There are many waiting for Red to release an SDK that will be used to add the GPU debayering to applications such as Premiere or Davinci but dont expect that any time soon. That process takes quite some time normally and Red is still developing their acceleration.



          • 2. Re: HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.
            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Do you really need full resoultion for editing?


            I remember earlier users have a problem with mixing Quadro cards with GeForce cards because they do not use the same drivers.


            Such a mix of cards Quadro, GeForce and Red Rocket could be confusing Premiere.


            What version of Premiere?


            Is your description for multiple systems?  I have never seen two different CPU's in one system

            • 3. Re: HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.
              XDX2 Level 1

              Thank you for responding.


              So is there an editing software for my machine that would allow me to do 4k full res, no rendering?
              The machine, by right, should be able to handle the work load. Correct?




              I would have never paid this much for a machine if I had known what I wanted to do was not possible with the software.

              For that matter, I would have just stayed with my Macbook Pro and iMac and just went through the pain of making proxy files. Expecially since all I can see is half resolution.


              Also, even when I do playback in half res it still drops or skip frames. Not as many, but I still thought that with this system and sofware I should have no problem pushing 4k at half. Right?

              • 4. Re: HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.
                XDX2 Level 1

                Hey Bill,

                Cs6 and CC. No luck with either.


                The system listed is one system built by ProMax.

                They say its the most powerful machine in the world.


                I just want to edit 4k like I edit 1080.

                • 5. Re: HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.
                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Eric is the expert on something like this.

                  • 6. Re: HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.
                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                    Right now there is not any editing software that can handle Red 4K full res. Red CineX Pro is Red's utility. They may be building to an editor eventually but it's not that yet.


                    The System you have by spec is close to the ideal choice for Red media in a long form or complex project/AE comp workflow. Those specs would give you the best realtime performance ceiling you will get with Red 4K/5K. That means more FX or complex sequences are able to playbackr ealtime without rendering. I would definitely have selected a different SSD OS drive and dropped the Quadro k5000 especially with the Blackmagic card in there. Having the 2 video cards with the Rocket and Blackmagic card besides the Raid card was a bad idea. That is more than saturating the PCI-E bandwidth and adding to the latency which is likely part of the reason your half resolution playback is not good. I have a single 12 Core Xeon E5 2697 V2 on a X79 board with 32GB of ram and that handles 4 layers of R3D 4K at half resolution with a 770GTX 4GB card. That Titan card should be chewing that media up at 1/2 res especially with the red card. When I did testing with the Red cards the load on the Dual Xeon's with the Titan was less than 10% with 4 layers of Red 4K in Premiere. Likely part of the problem is the Quadro is currently being used for the GPU acceleration instead of the Titan. You have to go into the Nvidia Control Panel and set the CUDA GPU to the Titan for GPU acceleration. That is under Manage 3D settings. By default Adobe uses the GPU that outputs to the main monitor for Windows unless this is changed to a specific card. Beyond that you will probably have to remove 1 of those video cards soon.


                    The workflow absolutely can be in Red and Proxy is not worth the trouble. If you can proxy then there is no reason you should be able to native with 2K preview. I would much rather have the 2K preview with 4K native workflow than proxy head aches.


                    Hope that helps. You can contact me directly if you have questions. My email is support@adkvideoediting.com

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: HELP! ProMax/Premiere Pro dropping frames on 4k footage.
                      XDX2 Level 1

                      Eric, I can't tell you how helpful you have been.

                      This has been a very disappointing 6 months trying to make this work.


                      I'll shoot you an email.