11 Replies Latest reply on Mar 9, 2014 5:20 AM by D Fosse

    PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!

    Kusanagi

      Hi,

      I'm designing an album cover in PS CC, CMYK on Imac. I added some texts in black and after that we realised that it doesn't look as black as it should be and it's little bit blue-ish.

      Checked everyting and opened color picker (with text selected) and found out that the HSB mode values is towards to blue, I changed it to black and checked the text again and it's still the same values and converted the blueish color. It should be a easy fixed problem, but no matter what I tried I couldn't solve the problem, is it a bug or am I doing something wrong?

       

      The design is finished and deadline is tomorrow. I'm using Ps for many years and still need lots to learn ) thanks in advance,

      PSproblem.jpg

        • 1. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          There is no bug. You simply need to read up on how different color models work and use color management. HSB makes absolutely no sense in a CMYK workflow since it is basically an alternate way to express RGB colors. Hence any HSB inputs will be converted to CMYK colors using whatever color management rules and color profiles you use. See the problem?

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
            Kusanagi Level 1

            Thanks for your quick reply Mylenium,

            My intention wasn't to use HSB to solve the problem, actually 'it is' the problem. The other parts in the design, blacks are real black, only in this text is different and the values cannot be changed in color picker. Yes I see your point, but how the HSB value changed in the first place and why it won't change into another  is a mistery.. but I'm still searching on the internet to find an answer.

            • 3. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              If you plan to do this regularly you need InDesign. This is really not something you would do in Photoshop.

               

              Black is a can of worms in CMYK. You basically have two kinds: 4-color black, and 100 K black. The former prints on all 4 plates, the latter on the black plate only. Text is usually 100 K to avoid registration issues (and hence legibility). It normally overprints the underlying colors.

               

              A 4-color black has its own set of problems. You should realize that there is something called total ink limit, or total area coverage. This is the maximum amount of total ink that can be applied before you get into trouble (smearing etc), and the limit is well under 400% (or 100% of each ink). It's usually around 300 or slightly over. TAC is specified in the CMYK profile, so a conversion from RGB is safe - but if you already are in CMYK you have to be very careful to not exceed the limit.

               

              You should also know that 100 K and 4C blacks may appear similar on screen, but print very differently. In Id and Ai there are view settings and options to aid in this, but I'm not sure of the situation in Photoshop.

              • 4. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Oh, and do you know which CMYK the printer is going to use - specifically? That's an absolute requirement if you want good results. Standards and press conditions vary.

                • 5. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Ah, one more thing: CMYK inks aren't equally weighted. To produce a neutral color you need about 15-20% more cyan than magenta or yellow. This is also specified in the profile.

                  • 6. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                    Kusanagi Level 1

                    It's quite information to digest ) thanks, I'll work with inDesign next time. The print will be 'Litho Printed 4pp CD Digipack Printed 4/0 (CMYK)'.


                    • 7. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I'm not trying to scare you away from the job - it's just that CMYK is a minefield, mainly because of the added black plate. You really have to approach it very systematically and be prepared to learn as you go.

                       

                      Especially if it's a complete layout job involving text. You really do not want text, at least not volume text, in 4 color black. Registration is never perfect and so it becomes blurry and difficult to read. A 100K black is always crisp.

                      • 8. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                        Kusanagi Level 1

                        I'm not scared, I'm just trying to find a logical way to approach the problem next time. You're right about 100K black, but it doesn't look real black isn't it? it looks a bit faded. that's why I'm trying to stay away from it.

                        • 9. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                          Kusanagi Level 1

                          thanks twenty_one, appreciated your help

                          • 10. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                            G.Hoffmann Level 3

                            It normally overprints the underlying colors.

                            K-only ( 0C 0M 0Y 100K) should overprint other inks, at least for small text,

                            but it doesn't automatically in Photoshop.

                             

                            The K-only text layer can be made overprinting by Blend Mode Multiply.

                            I've tested this by Photoshop CS2 and Acrobat > Print Production > Output Preview.

                            Do we have a more straightforward solution  in newer versions of Photoshop?

                             

                            Best regards  --Gernot Hoffmann

                            • 11. Re: PS CC-Color Picker HSB values won't change!
                              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Not that I can see. I get the same result in Photoshop CC - the 100K text knocks out in Normal mode, but overprints in Multiply mode. But this is a good and useful workaround if you have to do this in Photoshop. Of course, in InDesign all this is easily controlled.

                               

                              ISO Coated exported to PDF/X-1a, text layer 0C 0M 0Y 100K.

                               

                              CMYK:

                              100K.png

                              CMY, text layer Normal mode:

                              100K_normal.png

                              CMY, text layer Multiply mode:

                              100K_multiply.png