4 Replies Latest reply: Mar 11, 2014 10:25 PM by Tony Jay RSS

    Trouble with noise reduction and workflow

    Picturequest Community Member
    Picturequest Mar 11, 2014 1:20 PM

      Greetings!

       

      First, I don't mind some noise or grain. I try to shoot at my lowest ISO. But I'm still having noise problems.

       

      I like a lot of extreme corrections, love clarity, stretching out highlight/shadow sliders. I find I create a lot of noise/grain that is not in the oroginal unprocessed original. It would be helpful to understand how different sliders effect noise/grain. Maybe trade offs. I'm pretty sure extreme clarity builds noise. Looks like black fly specks.

       

      My personal problem, is I create an image that looks great on screen, but when printed large, the noise/grain is too much. Yes, I have used the noise reduction panel. But sometimes, I don't find it works.

       

      I'm pretty sure it is due to the fact noise reduction is probably applied BEFORE all the noise creating sliders. So, when I crank noise reduction to the max, it may be reducing noise from the original, but not the final version (post development). At least that is my theory.

       

      I'd like to find a workflow to control final noise, but still utilize the sliders. I have access to some NIK plug ins, but I'd like to get a handle on it within LR.

       

      Any thoughts.

       

      Thanks!

       

      Maxi

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        • 1. Re: Trouble with noise reduction and workflow
          ssprengel Community Member
          ssprengel Mar 11, 2014 1:50 PM (in response to Picturequest)

          Dark areas have less bits to encode their values so a single bit of noise is a higher proportion of the total value.

           

          For the basis of the default processing, to match the human eye’s response to dark and light, darker areas are brightened more than bright areas, using a non-linear gamma curve.  This magnifies the noise in darker areas.

           

          If you boost the brightness of dark areas using Shadows or Clarity, you are making that noise even more visible.   Think of brightening as digitally increasing the ISO. 

           

          Adobe’s noise-reduction is calibrated to the original photo’s ISO setting, not how much you have digitally increased the ISO by brightening it, so if you have magnified the noise by extreme processing, you may be beyond what maxing out the NR sliders are calibrated to remove.

           

          Exporting sharpening will sharpen any remaining noise.

           

          Are you using the Mask slider in sharpen to keep from sharpening the noise grain in the Detail section?  Use the Alt key while moving the mask slider to determine the optimal Mask level for a particular photo, where you can’t to have the edges indicated but not the wide areas of little detail.

           

          It’s hard to guess what you’re seeing without seeing a screenshot.

          • 2. Re: Trouble with noise reduction and workflow
            Picturequest Community Member
            Picturequest Mar 11, 2014 2:49 PM (in response to ssprengel)

            Do you know if I am correct, The NR filter is the first process. I.e. NIK has noise reduction that can be used at the end, after development.

             

            Yes, I am familiar with how LRs Noise reduction sliders work.

            • 3. Re: Trouble with noise reduction and workflow
              ssprengel Community Member
              ssprengel Mar 11, 2014 9:42 PM (in response to Picturequest)

              The order things are applied is not publically disclosed by Adobe:

              http://forums.adobe.com/message/5118739#5118739

               

              I suspect that part of NR happens during demosaicking/interpolating raw data into RGB data (near the beginning), and others parts happen after or in conjunction with sharpening (near the middle).

              • 4. Re: Trouble with noise reduction and workflow
                Tony Jay Community Member
                Tony Jay Mar 11, 2014 10:25 PM (in response to Picturequest)

                If memory serves all edits are applied in an optimised fashion.

                There really is no real 'order' in application of edits.

                In any case it is generally known that capture sharpening should not be applied as the 'initial edit' anyway so why would Adobe do this in Lightroom.

                 

                Tony Jay