27 Replies Latest reply: Apr 5, 2014 2:06 PM by Nitrous2000 RSS

    Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer

    Nitrous2000 Community Member

      Hi guys,

       

      Not even sure how best to ask this but I'm making a jigsaw puzzle to superimpose onto a picture. The ultimate plan is to laser cut the vector file but I also want to be able to cut out one or more pieces as a separate file. In this case, I want to take the image, with the vector image over top and cut out several puzzle pieces.

       

      The challenge is that these pieces need to be put onto a file that can be 1) printed as an image file so that 2) the laser can cut these pieces out (so that they would be interchangeable with the previously printed puzzle).

       

      I can do some of this in GIMP (or other graphics program) and import into inkscape (currently using Inkscape but would spring for a pay program if I can do this) but the pathways needed to translate into gcode doesn't seem to be preserved with the trace function etc.

       

      Any suggestions?

       

      Thanks

      Doug

        • 1. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
          Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

          Doug,

           

          It rather depends on the underlying picture.

           

          If it is vector artwork, depending on the composition, you may be able to select everything and Pathfinder>Divide and maybe Ungroup.

           

          If it is raster artwork (a raster image), you may use (part(s) of) the (compound) path(s) as one of more Clipping Masks, and you may do the dirty destructive deed, with the/each Clipping Mask selected:

           

          1) In the Transparency palette/panel dropdown list select anything but Normal (Multiply is fine; this step may be unneeded in your version, you may try;

          2) Object>Flatten Transparency, just keep the defaults including 100% Vector;

          3) Shudder.

           

          You will need one copy of the raster image for eachClipping Mask.

          • 2. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
            Nitrous2000 Community Member

            Thanks Jacob,

             

            The "flatten" option is what's missing from Inkscape.

            Still, is the path information preserved using this method or is it lost once flattened?

             

            At the end of the day, I need to be able to print out a page of raster images that have been "clipped" to size, that I can put into Inkscape to translate into GCode for cutting.

             

            Thanks again,

             

            Doug

            • 3. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
              Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

              Doug,

               

              Still, is the path information preserved using this method or is it lost once flattened?

               

              Preserved.

               

              You can see the difference between Layers flyout>Flatten Artwork and Object>Flatten Transparency if you create a document with two rectangles on separate layers, then apply a gradient fill to either and flatten that in the two ways (Undo is your friend).

               

              With an underlying raster image I am afraid the destructive deed will be needed.

              • 4. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                Nitrous2000 Community Member

                What is the "Shudder" command/tool and what does it do? (Or is the other stuff so powerful, a person just naturally shakes as a result? ;) )

                 

                Doug

                • 5. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                  Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                  Doug,

                   

                  The dirtiness of the destructive deed is generally disgusted.

                  • 6. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                    Nitrous2000 Community Member

                    Time to play!

                    Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.

                    Doug

                    • 7. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                      Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                      You are welcome, Doug.

                       

                      I hope you will report your findings.

                      • 8. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                        Nitrous2000 Community Member

                        Well, my experimentation so far has left me with a puzzle shaped "hole" in my image.

                         

                        I can see the puzzle layer on top of the raster image, and all looks fine except the blank area where I flattened things.

                         

                        When I try to copy this, I get a pastable image of the puzzle, but no part of the raster image is present. At least I don't think so.

                         

                        Am I moving n the correct direction?  I'm a less than newbie at this. :(

                         

                        Doug

                        • 9. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                          Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                          Doug,

                           

                          For each of the chosen pieces, did you select one copy of the raster image along with the path bounding the piece in question, then Object>Clipping Mask>Make, then go through 1) and 2)?

                           

                          Just to make sure, I went through that sequence with a raster image covered by two paths corresponding to two pieces, and that gave me the two pieces of the raster image which I was then able to move apart.

                          • 10. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                            Nitrous2000 Community Member

                            Hi Jacob,

                             

                            I've had some success but far from successful... ;)

                             

                            So, what I've done is the following. I opened up an art board. Onto this I placed a raster image. Onto that, on a second layer, I placed a star (from the star tool section). 

                             

                            I selected the star, and the underlying raster image (making the star "multiple") and made a clip mask. The star shape captured the raster image below. (More to the point, the clip mask actually hid the rest of the raster image).

                             

                            When I copied this and pasted the copy onto a new art board, it looked like it had clipped the star image from the raster image below. Unfortunately, this was not the case. It really was a masked copy of the entire raster image.

                             

                            Flattening this and releasing didn't result in the desired star shaped piece of the raster image being cut out.

                             

                            From what I've been reading, it might be that illustrator just doesn't let you cut out images like photoshop does (but that leaves me screwed wrt vector images of these pieces - I want to ultimately cut these out by laser using G-Code)

                             

                            Any suggestions!

                            Thanks

                            Doug

                            • 11. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                              Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                              Doug,

                               

                              Did you do the dirty destructive deed described in the first post?

                              • 12. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                Well, I thought I had. :) I decided to keep it really simple to "prove" the point. It worked ;)

                                 

                                Still, I don't have the "line hugging" path that goes around the object. I've got a selection square around the object. The outline does, however seem to have control points so I think I'm going to have to play a little.

                                 

                                You've been a great help and I do appreciate it.

                                Thanks again,

                                Doug

                                • 13. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                  Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                  Just a follow up. I'm doing what I think is the same thing, but clearly it is not (as evidenced by the outcome).

                                   

                                  I placed my raster image onto the art board. I next placed my SVG image of the 42 piece jigsaw puzzle on top. These 42 pieces were initially grouped.

                                   

                                  I ungrouped these 42 pieces and selected the outside pieces. I didn't regroup them (maybe I should have - next experiment - didn't improve outcome) but I did set them to multiple, and then tried to select the raster image below. I did this by selecting the "objects below" option and I also tried to set the opacity to 0, and click "through" the top layer to the image below (ok, that obviously didn't work). Next, I clip masked and flattened. No love :(

                                   

                                  I just seemed to be left with a 42 piece puzzle image without the raster image at all.

                                   

                                  I'm probably providing a less than sufficient description to determine the problem/solution. I'm not creating (or trying to create) multiple copies of the puzzle/raster image. At least not at this point.

                                   

                                  Any ideas or ..... should I just have to study, experiment and learn? 

                                  • 14. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                    Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                    Doug,

                                     

                                    Still, I don't have the "line hugging" path that goes around the object.

                                     

                                    If you just mean a visible stroked path that shows the boundary, you can (with everything deselected) click the path, or select the Clipping Path in the Layers palette, then apply a Stroke.

                                     

                                    If you need a separate (stroked) path, you may select the Clipping Path, then Ctrl/Cmd+C+F(maybe +X+F) to bring a copy to the front as a separate path, then apply the Stroke to that.

                                     

                                    I forgot to mention that the the deed produces a funny freak phantom that is selectable anywhere within the Bounding Box of the Clipping Path.

                                    • 15. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                      Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                      Doug,

                                       

                                      I'm not creating (or trying to create) multiple copies of the puzzle/raster image.

                                       

                                      I am afraid you have to. You may use a linked image and copy that.

                                      • 16. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                        Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                        Thanks Jacob.

                                         

                                        I'm thinking that I'm not dealing with as discrete objects (even after un grouping and selecting) as I hoped/thought (in the 42 object SVG puzzle layer)

                                         

                                        Worse still, in terms of asking for help, I'm probably doing a pretty poor job describing my problem since it is the problem "as I see it" rather than the way it actually is.

                                         

                                        I'm not ready to give up yet....but I'm getting there ;)

                                         

                                        Thanks

                                        Doug

                                        • 17. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                          Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                          Is that what's screwing me up?

                                          I have to work on copies?

                                          Doug

                                          • 18. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                            Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                            Doug,

                                             

                                            You have to work on one copy for each Clipping Mask.

                                            • 19. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                              Larry G. Schneider CommunityMVP

                                              Here's an image of what you probably need to do to make the individual raster images to clip. Place your image and the line work for your puzzle pieces over it. Then start making new Artboards with the Artboard tool which you will use to export small individual raster files to minimize the raster data in the file. When done making the new Artboards just Export to new Files making sure the Use Artboards is checked in the dialog (lower left) and you select Range and put in 2-X (X being the number of the final Artboard. Then use these bits and the corresponding puzzle piece for your clipping masks.

                                               

                                              Screen shot 2014-04-04 at 9.42.36 AM.png

                                              • 20. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                                Thanks Jacob,

                                                 

                                                Is there a problem putting a number of "selected" objects, grouped together as one mask and using that?

                                                 

                                                When I just grabbed a star shape mask applied to a raster image, it did pretty much what I need. What seems to be screwing me up is the fact that the selected group I'm using for my mask, actually has some un selected and ungrouped puzzle pieces inside the layer from which the mask is made. 

                                                 

                                                Obviously, I'm missing some basic understanding of the layers concept. That said, I'm a long ways away from taking a course in Essentials of Adobe Illustrator. :)I'm going through a Lynda course on a Illustrator but they haven't quite satisfied the underlying "why" of how to do things.

                                                 

                                                Doug

                                                • 21. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                  Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                                  Doug,

                                                   

                                                  When you use multiple objejcts for a Clipping Mask, grouping them is not enough: you  need to turn them into a Compound Path, to act as one, and that can only work in certain cases, such as paths with no overlap (unless you want some intriguing effects).

                                                  • 22. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                    Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                                    Will give that a try.

                                                    Thanks

                                                    Doug

                                                    • 23. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                      Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                                      On closer examination, the SVG puzzle layer appears to have a Compound Path set. After I ungrouped the objects, they are collectively listed as Mixed Objects.

                                                       

                                                      I've duplicated both the raster image and the ungrouped puzzle layers.

                                                       

                                                      Still trying a few things out. The suggestions about opening up a few Art Boards is a little beyond my understanding, right now but I appreciate the info.  It may well be a key bit in the future.

                                                       

                                                      Doug

                                                      • 24. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                        CarlosCanto Community Member

                                                        check out this post to see if it helps, jongware wrote an amazing puzzle script

                                                        http://forums.adobe.com/message/3193691#3193691

                                                        • 25. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                          Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                                          Thanks for this.

                                                          It looks very interesting.

                                                          Ultimately, I'm slowly going to get my whits about me on this...but in the short term, any solution is going to do the trick, if it works!

                                                           

                                                          Doug

                                                          • 26. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                            JETalmage Community Member

                                                            Doug,

                                                             

                                                            I suspect you're being led all over the place (and further confused) by the responses you have been getting. It would be good to get this back to a clearly organized discussion.

                                                             

                                                            First, you need to describe your workflow with a bit more detail. What equipment and what softwares are involved? What are the actual operations you must perform to achieve the required results?

                                                             

                                                            For example:

                                                             

                                                            It sounds like your intention is to first print a raster image which is then adhered to a substrate (cardboard, etc.), then take the mounted print to a CNC laser-based cutter to have it cut up into the shapes of a typical jigsaw puzzle.

                                                             

                                                            Is that much correct? If so...

                                                             

                                                            Generally speaking, NC cutting machines (at least plotters/cutters/routers) usually are actually driven by a separate software which is designed for the purpose. That "driver" software can usually import files of common vector-based graphics formats (EPS, PLT, DXF) and convert them to language (HPGL, etc.) which is "understood" by the device. You mention gcode, which is a somewhat generic term. Have you read the documentation for the device, or talked with the manufacturer to determine what vector-based file formats its driving software can import to make ready for cutting? If so, what are they?

                                                             

                                                            Once armed with that information, determining which general-purpose vector drawing programs can export the importable formats is easy. Just look at the list of export formats for the software you are considering. Mainstream vector drawing programs (Adobe Illustrator, CorelDraw, Deneba Canvas, Xara Designer Pro, Serif DrawPlus, Inkscape) all do pretty much the same basic thing: They provide a tactile interface for drawing cubic Bezier curves. They all export to common graphics industry formats one of which will have to be importable by the software that drives your equipment and translateable to its required language.

                                                             

                                                            You mention having had some success with GIMP and Inkscape. What specifically does Inkscape not do that requires you to look elsewhere? Inkscape is primarily intended for SVG, but it can export other formats commonly used in graphics. You're not going to find among the programs I mentioned one which exports directly to the "gcode" of your machine. So again, you need to look into what vector-based graphics formats your cutting software can import.

                                                             

                                                            You seem to mention autotracing. This suggests a misunderstanding. For a jigsaw puzzle kind of cutout, you need to draw the cut-shaped paths. Auto-tracing is not going to do that for you. Unless you can explain otherwise, I don't see how autotracing would apply to your purpose.

                                                             

                                                            After determining potential software that can export a format compatible for your workflow, next comes the question of how the path artwork needs to be drawn. This raises questions about how the device actually works. In plotter-based cutting, you usually don't want the cutter to follow the same path twice. So with knife-based cutting or routing, for example, you wouldn't want abutting shapes to actually have identically-shaped edges. In other words, you wouldn't want each puzzle piece to be a separate closed path. You would want a "grid" of squiggly open paths which criss-cross and span the whole image. Only when you need to cut one specific puzzle piece as a separate operation would you want a closed path drawn in the shape of just that one piece.

                                                             

                                                            Other details you seem to misundestand:

                                                             

                                                            Responders in this thread have mentioned clipping paths and masks and such, presumably in attempts to make suggestions for cutting around a whole shape, and I suspect that is severely clouding the issue and injecting more confusion.

                                                             

                                                            Again: To create a jigsaw puzzle, you shouldn't need to mask (clipping path, etc.) anything. You would just print a raster image, then cut it, following a path shaped like the desired outline. Any printed region outside the cut (bleed) would simply be scrap. It is actually adventageous to not mask the printed image to the shape, becasue when you do, you then have to ensure absolutely perfect alignment between the masked edge and the cut edge when the cutting is performed. (Same principle as providing bleeds for ordinary print trimming and die cuts.)

                                                             

                                                            Raster images are rectangluar. Even if they look like they are some other shape, they are not. They are just rectangular arrays of rectangular (usually square) pixels. This is true whether they are masked (for the purpose of printing) by a vector path. That's why, when you dissect some of the results of some of the suggestions you've received you find that the file still contains a rectanguar image.

                                                             

                                                            JET

                                                            • 27. Re: Cutting out a piece of an Vector layer
                                                              Nitrous2000 Community Member

                                                              Thanks Jet for your detailed response.

                                                               

                                                              You've certainly clarified some key points for me.

                                                              But to clarify, in its simplest terms, you've got my problem described but there is a bit of a wrinkle.

                                                               

                                                              Specifically, the reason for cutting out a particular puzzle piece is to reproduce some pieces, while maintaining a relationship to the part of the raster image that is positioned in the original puzzle piece.

                                                               

                                                              As far as tracing, it was to convert a raster image of a puzzle overlay into a vector image. The other place I was wondering about using the tracing function was if I just scanned the piece from the printed and cut out puzzle and approached it that way.

                                                               

                                                              I have hardware that converts SVG files to GCode that LinuxCNC can work with.

                                                               

                                                              The reason I was looking beyond Inkscape was that it "appeared" to me that some kind of flattening option was needed.

                                                               

                                                              If I understand correctly, masking does not equal cutting and in fact the idea of "cutting" objects out of Illustrator is not really a native function.

                                                               

                                                              Thanks again for such a detailed response.

                                                               

                                                              Doug

                                                               

                                                              (Analogue Laser Cutter that uses LinuxCNC as the vector based software)