13 Replies Latest reply on Apr 6, 2014 9:40 AM by A.T. Romano

    Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)

    BadWolfRacing

      Edited a 30 minute video and removed a couple of clips from it. After rendering the project and saving it, I noticed a severe drop in video quality and despite realigning the audio/video tracks, audio still moved out of sync. Original clip plays fine, and I would just upload those, but there are too many dead spots and some splicing that needs to be addressed. At first I though cutting sections of video caused the problem, but playing the video prior to editing it produces out of sync tracks as well. over a 30 minute video, audio moved ahead by nearly 10 seconds.

       

      Running APE 12 on Windows 8.1.

       

      Video camera: Replay 720XD (manual specifies APE or Quicktime [Pro] for editing)

       

      Video information per gspot: FPS 29.412; Resolution 1280x720; Audio Codec: MP4a:Mpeg-4 AAC LC  Video: avc1 H.264/MPEG-4 AVC

       

      Quicktime is also up to date.

       

      I have been seeing several other threads about this with varying responses which is making me think each problem is something different. There are also not too many threads with solutions. Also concerned over the fact that this problem seems to go as far back as APE 10.

        • 1. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          BadWolfRacing

           

          What is this Replay 720XD, a web cam or something else?

           

          Your video compression AVCHD (MPEG4 AVC/H.264) with a frame size of 1280 x 720 would class the file as AVCHD-LITE. If 29.412 frames per second is what you are getting, that suggests to me that the recording is being made with a variable frame rate. Looks like your AVCHD has a .mov file extension.

           

          1. Make sure you have the correct project preset. Do it manually.

          Open Premiere Elements12 to its Expert workspace

          Go to File Menu/New/Project and Change Settings

          Change project preset to

          NTSC

          AVCHD

          AVCHD-LITE 720p30

          Before exiting that area, in the new project dialog, make sure that you have a check mark next to "Force Selected Project Setting on This File".

           

          2. Back in the Premiere Elements 12 Expert workspace, then use Add Media/Files and Folders/ to get your file into Project Assets from where you will drag the file to the Timeline. Is there an orange line over the Timeline file? I am expecting the answer to be Yes. If that is the case, then hit the Render button above the Timeline and wait for the orange line to turn green. You then have the best possible preview of what you have when the Timeline content is played back in the Edit area monitor. Problems gone or still there? If still there, please read on to "3".

           

          3.Because of the suspected variable frame rate existing, you will probably need to convert the variable to constant frame rate in a program such as HandBrake.

          Variable frame rate does not automatically spell "no can do" in Premiere Elements, but it can be the issue for some to more than some.

           

          4. If it comes to it, download and install the free HandBrake program.

          http://handbrake.fr/

           

          Source - Open File

          I set in seconds

          Destination: Browse to set (I use computer desktop)

          Container: MP4

           

          Under Picture Tab, the 1280 x 720 should be automatically in place. So, you should not have to do any settings alterations there.

           

          Under Video Tab,

          Video Codec = H.264 (x264)

          Framerate = 29.97

          dot Constant Framerate

           

          Hit the Start button and wait for a "Queue Finished" in the progress bar at the bottom of the interface.

           

          If this turns out to be a variable frame rate issue, you might determine if there is a possibility for your camera to record with a constant frame rate.

           

          Please review, consider, and then let us know the outcome.

           

          Thank you.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
            BadWolfRacing Level 1

            I will try your suggestion when I have some time to play with it, but the Replay XD is in the "lipstick camera" class and is a Go Pro alternative. It has two frame rate settings, 30 and 60 which is set by a physical switch. I do not recall reading anything about it using a variable rate outside of that.

            • 3. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              BadWolfRacing

               

              I will do some looking around the Internet to see what I can find out about the technical properties of your camera.

               

              But, your results should give us some helpful information.

               

              Looking forward to your results when you get the chance.

               

              It is that 29.412 frame rate that  you gave that is making me think variable frame rate. If constant, I would have expected

              to see 23.976, 24, 29.97, 30, 25, 59.94, 60 or something like that.

               

              More later.

               

              Thanks for the follow up.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                BadWolfRacing Level 1

                Ended up having to use the Handbrake procedure.

                 

                I went through and opened a new project using the same video. Without making any changes to it, I rendered the video (Orange bar was present) and didn't have to hit play to know video quality went to crap. Sure enough, by 5:46, sound was 5 seconds ahead of video.

                 

                Here is the user manual for the camera: http://www.replayxd.com/downloads/user_guides/Replay-XD720_User_Manual-EN.pdf

                 

                Specs: http://replayxd.com/cameras/replay-xd720-tech-specs/ 

                 

                I"m currently doing trial and error methods trying to save the video to the PC in way that will save the video quality. So far everything gets cut to an unwatchable 720x480, or saved in a format that cannot be uploaded anywhere. 

                 

                This is leaving me feeling like APE may have been the wrong choice for a simple project.

                 

                (edit) I was able to save it as a high quality .MOV, thankfully. Thanks for your help, but this has left me completely unsatisfied, frustrated and disappointed with APE. I did not expect to, nor should I have had to, download extra programs after paying for this product, especially when problems with these types of camera files have apparently been dating so far back.

                • 5. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  BadWolfRacing

                   

                  Do not give up just yet. If you have taken the video through HandBrake, it should be OK in Premiere Elements provided you set the project up correctly. Project preset should match the properties of the source media. No need for trial and error. Please consider...

                   

                  Open a new Premiere Elements 12 project to its Expert workspace.

                  Go to File Menu/New/Project and Change Settings

                  In the Change Settings panel, set the project preset to

                   

                  NTSC

                  AVCHD

                  AVCHD-LITE 720p30

                   

                  Before closing out of that area, in the final dialog that you see (new project dialog), make sure that  you have a check mark next to "Force Selected Project Setting on This Project".

                   

                  When you are back in the Expert workspace, go to Add Media/Files and Folders/ to bring your video into Project Assets from where you drag it to the Timeline. Do you have an orange line over that Timeline content? I would expect not. But, if you do render that content and let me know what the playback looks and sounds like in the Edit area monitor.

                   

                  (I am basing the above on what we discussed previously and my HandBrake suggested settings.)

                   

                  This should not be the case.

                   

                  So far everything gets cut to an unwatchable 720x480, or saved in a format that cannot be uploaded anywhere.

                   

                  As an example for the export of the Timeline content...

                  Publish+Share

                  Computer

                  AVCHD

                  with Presets = YouTube Widescreen HD

                   

                  Please let us know the results.

                   

                  More later.

                   

                  Thanks.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                    BadWolfRacing Level 1

                    I was saving the video to PC for playback under MPEG format, which in the output description made it 720x480.Off the top of my head, I can't remember what I eventually found where I could save it as a Quicktime file with something like 1990 (something close to this)x1080 output which looked fine. I had to bring in a second video to add the final 30 seconds or so of the session to the video, and the section I spliced in had the orange bar across the top. There was no way to tell how accurate the audio sync was though. More stuff to try later tonight or whenever I can get back to working on these videos.

                     

                    My frustration with the process is the likelyhood of having to run all of my videos through Handbrake (I have 7 more to trim) and any in the future. It just seems like it should be an unnecassry step that I would never have known about had I not come to the forum. As I said, this was supposed to be a very simple trim job, that has been made 10x more complicated than it needed to be. Go Pros and other dash cam like video capture is prevelant enough now, and the variable frame rate issue has been around long enough, that Adobe should have had it figured out so that this outside software should not be needed. If open source style developers could figure it out, surely Adobe could have.

                     

                    As for camera settings, Replay has said that the 720 camera does have a slightly variable framerate, with no way to make it constant other than the 30/60 switch, but the 1080xd version uses a constant framerate.

                    • 7. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      BadWolfRacing

                       

                      I see no mention of constant or variable frame rate in the camera documents (only NTSC 30/60 or PAL 25/50).

                      The only hint that I have that your frame rate is variable is that 29.412 frames per second that you give for your video.

                      I have gone to the Advanced Users section for the camera and can find nothing that goes to that issue. If your camera is recording with a constant frame rate then you are going to see 29.97 or 30 and not 29.412.

                       

                      We can support the idea of constant versus variable frame rate for your video by running the video through the MediaInfo properties read out program. If your video has a variable frame rate, the readout out will give a minimum, "general", and maximum in the readout for the frame rate.

                      http://sourceforge.net/projects/mediainfo/

                      Just be careful for unwanted carryons in the download of this program.

                       

                      You appear to have 1280 x 720 @ 29.412 progressive frames per second (variable frame rate), presenting as AVCHD.mov. And, apparently you are transferring the recording from the camera as AVCHD video compression (MPEG4 AVC/H.264).mov, not a "MPEG" such as in MPEG2 video compression..

                       

                      Variable frame rate in Premiere Elements does not always = problem. I have video from iPod and iPhone 5 (with variable frame rate) and have no problems (audio out of sync or other) importing, editing, exporting it from Premiere Elements set with the correct project presets and working with Timeline rendered content. There are some who do have problems. For them, typically the answer is take the video into a program to change the variable into a constant frame rate.

                       

                      Whether you use the original or the original converted in HandBrake

                       

                      Project Preset

                      NTSC

                      AVCHD

                      AVCHD-LITE 720p30

                       

                       

                      Export for QuickTime H.264.mov (720p30)

                       

                      Publish+Share

                      Computer

                      QuickTIme

                      with Presets = NTSC DV 16:9

                      and, then under the Advanced Button/Video Tab, make sure the settings are as shown in the screenshot

                       

                      QuickTime.JPG

                      The Bitrate is cut off in the screenshot. Leave it unchecked for now. We can talk about Bitrate and file size later.

                       

                      Export for AVCHD AVCHD.mp4 (720p30)

                       

                      AVCHD.JPG

                       

                      Please review the above and let us know if any of the information improved the situation.

                       

                      Any question or need clarification, please ask.

                       

                      Thanks.

                       

                      ATR

                       

                      Add On...Just in case note...the Publish+Share/Computer has more choices than Adobe Flash Video, MPEG, and AVCHD. The rest need to be scrolled to with the tiny scroll bar to the right. Or, you can click on Adobe Flash Video so that the panel turns blue. Then use the down arrow key to move down the list or the up arrow to move up the list.

                      • 8. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                        BadWolfRacing Level 1

                        "unfortunately at this time, you are not able to adjust frame rate on our cameras aside from the 30/60 fps setting. the frame rate does vary a bit on the 720 camera, however our newer 1080 cameras do not usually show it."

                         

                        That was the replay from Replay in regards to the variable rate question.

                         

                        So, I went through and trimmed the second video. Had to run it through Handbrake to keep the audio lined up, but did not have to render this one before editing.

                         

                        I tried to publish/share the video the way you prescribed with the quicktime setitngs, but nothing I did under quicktime gave me the 1280x720 option. It was all 720x480. Didn't matter how I went through it. Even went back and checked the settings I had set up with the New Project settings we've discussed.

                         

                        Ended up going with the AVCHD settings (1920x1080).

                         

                        Not really sure why I'm not seeing the same settings options you are getting for quicktime.

                        • 9. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          BadWolfRacing

                           

                          Please give the QuickTIme Export another try with the following focus points to get what I show in my screenshot for the 1280 x 720 end product.

                           

                          1. Publish+Share/Computer/QuickTime

                          Presets = NTSC DV 16:9

                           

                          2. Click on the Advanced Button there to bring up the Export Settings dialog. And then click on the Video Tab there.

                           

                          3. Make sure all the Export Settings dialog's customized settings are as shown in the screenshot, name the customized preset that you have created, and click OK.

                           

                          4. Back in the export area Computer/QuickTime, look to the summary for the settings to assure that it described what you just set.

                           

                          Please let us know if that worked for you.

                           

                          Thanks.

                           

                          ATR

                          • 10. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                            BadWolfRacing Level 1

                            so I set up the Quicktime panel per your screen shot, however I do not have the "Level and Profile" fields you are describing. Unless I am in the wrong tab, there is a difference between our versions of PE.

                            • 11. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              BadWolfRacing

                               

                              This is the part that should not be in post 9.

                              3. Under the Video Tab, the first thing to do is to go directly to the fields for Level and Profile. Set Level 4.0 and Profile Main.

                              (You should see automatically 1280 in the Width field and 720 in the Height field. If not

                               

                              The QuickTime route does not have settings for Level and Profile which are part of the AVCHD way. I messed up in post 9.

                               

                              Please go by what I posted in post 7 and those screenshots of Export Settings for the QuickTime and AVCHD ways.

                               

                              The QuickTime instructions should work for all to give you 1280 x 720 and not 720 x 480.

                               

                              1. Publish+Share/Computer/QuickTime with Presets = NTSC DV 16:9.

                              2. Click on the Advanced Button directly below the Save In field in that location.

                              3. In the Export Settings dialog

                              a. Video Codec set to H.264

                              b. Make sure that the box to the right of Width and Height is blank. If you see a chain link in the box, click on it to remove it. Then type in 1280 for Width and 720 for Height. Did you do that?

                               

                              The rest of the settings are as shown in the QuickTime Export Settings screenshot.

                               

                              Please let me know if you are now getting the 1280 x 720 and not 720 x 480.

                               

                              Thanks. Apologizes for the mess up in the part numbered 3 of post 9.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                                BadWolfRacing Level 1

                                Yeah, I did all that. It looked fine when it finished the save process.

                                 

                                It looks like I'm going to have to do the Handbrake thing for every one of my video clips (grr). The Level and Profile tabs you mistakenly put in are in the Handbrake settings apparently.

                                 

                                Some of this is making a little more sense, but I'm sure if I had to do this for a living i woudl have a much better understanding of some of the things that have been mentioned (bitrate v framerate, etc)

                                 

                                (edit) er, yeah, so I didn't realize after saving the last two videos, the file sizes actually quadrupled in size, going from 1.3GB (Source) to 5.8GB...and here i was wondering why they werre taking so long to upload...

                                • 13. Re: Video Quality dropped and Audio out of sync (APE 12)
                                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                                  BadWolfRacing

                                   

                                  Thanks for the good news.

                                   

                                  About Bitrate (also known here as data rate) and file size.....

                                   

                                  In the QuickTime Export Settings that we have mentioned, next time put a check mark next to "Limit data rate to ____________kbps" and then type in 10000 for starters and determine what the resulting file size and quality are.

                                   

                                  Lower the Bitrate, lower the file size, lower the quality.

                                  Higher the Bitrate, greater the file size, better the quality.

                                   

                                  Then work with finding a compromise between Bitrate, file size, and quality.

                                   

                                  Note:

                                  Kbps or kbps = kilobits per second

                                  KBps = kilobytes per second

                                  Mbps = megabits per second

                                  MBps = megabytes per second

                                  So, watch the units in the Export Settings of the different Computer choices.

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                   

                                  ATR