37 Replies Latest reply on Apr 26, 2014 8:55 PM by forgottenrebell

    Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance

    Laser LTD Level 1

      I'm having major issues with performance on my system (running windows 8.1. Premiere CC 7.2.2). My friend in the office here has a Mac Pro (2013) with 6 core cpu and dual D500's and I have dual Xeon 2665's and dual K4000's.

       

      The problem is that he can export twice as fast as me on mercury software and almost 3 times faster on Mercury GPU. He can also add twice as many affects before his system drops frames (using same settings and video file). When I go to GPU-Z my gpu's are hardly working with GPU export selected... with software only my CPU's get to 60% load max whereas his CPU get's to about 84%. Am I missing something? I know the D500's are almost the same as W8000's (and he has two), but dual K4000's shouldn't be that far behind? And how does selecting cpu exporting get him an export time of 6 minutes compared to my 15 minutes when I have a 32 threads to work with??

       

      Am I doing something wrong? Have I got a setting somewhere that is causing this that I might have missed? Are dual D500's really THAT much better than dual K4000's? AND HOW is my 7k+ machine that much worse than his £3200 mac?

       

      Please help. I'm losing my mind here!

       

      Thanks

       

      Edit - Would just like to add that the video files we are using are pro res 422 and that I have the latest bios and latest nvidia performance drivers

        • 1. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Well, I am no expert here but referring to Harms Tweakers Pages on video codecs and scroll down to the PC Requirements to see what the ProRes 422 requires.  It shows us the not only do you need a lot of CPU power, you need an awful lot of disk performance and you have not compared that for us on the two systems.  Have you turned off indexing on your disk drives?

           

          If you do not have a lot of MPE accelerated effects and features, all the graphics cards in the world will not have any effects

           

          Have you tuned your PC so you do not have all the garbage the HP loaded on your system running and stealing cpu cycles?

           

          Maybe some of the experts on large systems can come by and be more helpful.  I personally have taken one of my PC workstations and converted it to a Hackintosh and was able to run our now older PPBM5 on both and both configurations and found very little if any difference in performance.  You might want to run our PPBM7 benchmark (PC-only) and see how you compare to Jim Short's dual 8 core first place system.  When you register and get to see the results open the attached Speccy file to see the exact configuration. 

          • 2. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
            Laser LTD Level 1

            Thanks for the reply Bill. I am running a RAID 5 Thunderbolt system which runs faster than my friends thunderbolt raid. We tested the RAID systems with Blackmagic disk speed test. So this isn't the problem.

             

            Our test sequences were using day4night effects, which I thought the GPU cards?

             

            I will try the PPBM7 bench. Thanks.

            • 3. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              day4night effects in After Effects are not GPU accelerated

               

              Message was edited by: Bill Gehrke

              • 4. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Since that is a rather low usage effect and in Adobe After Effects it may not even be multithreaded, which could explain your discrepancy between the two units.  Your CPU runs at 2.4/3.1 GHz where the 2013 Mac Pro 6-core runs at 3.5/3.9 GHz.  This could easily account for the  difference.

                 

                We will need Adobe help to verify this if this effect is still single threaded, or at least not fully multithreaded.

                • 5. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                  Laser LTD Level 1

                  I'm using premiere not AE. And I bought the HP Z820 on Adobe guidence from watching a video from adobe tv. Search HP Z820 adobe tv and they can't stop singing it's praises. Why would they recommend buying a multi threaded machine when their effects don't support it?

                   

                  It irks me that a 2xcpu's is recommended by adobe but a 1xcpu with only 6 cores outperforms it. Not happy.

                  • 6. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                    Based on the GPU usage your listing the hardware MPE is not working on your system. Did you edit the supported list in Media Express folder? What Nvidia driver version are you running? Right click on the desktop and select the Nvidia control Panel. Select help and then system information. Give me the version listed there?


                    Eric

                    ADK

                    • 7. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                      Laser LTD Level 1

                      Hi again Eric.

                      I'm not at work right now, but I updated to the latest performance drivers which I believe are 334.95. I updated from the ODE drivers because I thought it might improve things, but it didn't... it just stayed the same. Edit - sorry missed the edit question.... I have dual K4000's they are supported so why would I edit the supported lisy?

                       

                      I also notice that on export my cpu's are not performing to their fullest. Although the first cpu is using all cores and threads to a high percentage, the second is working half as hard.

                       

                      When I called the company to tell them of the performance difference they told me it was to be expected? I asked for a machine that was as good as a 12 core dual D700 and I get a machine that is 7k and half as good as a 6 core d500 mac pro.

                       

                      I have asked to return it due to the nature in which it was sold to me. I asked for a comparable machine.... is this z820 really comparable? If I was given all the information I would have obviously spent under half as much on a machine TWICE as fast. I am waiting on a call to see if they will exchange the system. They say I might be charged a 10-20% re-stocking fee IF they will take it back. NOT HAPPY.

                       

                      Not to mention the £500 I spent on extra RAM which will now go to waste.

                      • 8. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                        The export CPU load depends on allot of factors. Much of it has to due with the Pro Res Codec your coming from and the codec your exporting to. The higher compression algorithms such as H264 will really lower the CPU load on the amount of cores you have. That is just the nature of complex algorithm's like that with allot of threads. Had you been working with Lagarith AVI or another AVI based codec, the threading load would have likely been higher than what you were seeing. However the performance difference you were seeing is essentially the Software MPE versus the Hardware MPE. The GPU acceleration was not on at all for the load to be that low with those Quadro cards. They only have a mid 600 series GPU in them so it doesn't take a large MPE load to push them well over 25%.

                         

                        Eric

                        ADK

                        • 9. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                          Laser LTD Level 1

                          Eric I'm a little confused? So what is the issue here? The CPU or the codec? The GPU's? Why is a mid range mac pro beating this system?

                          • 10. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                            The main issue is the fact your not using the GPU acceleration on export right now with that GPU load your showing. No matter what the load is on your CPU's they cannot export in anywhere close to the same time frame without the GPU acceleration. That is Main issue to your performance. The other points I was making had to do with your comments about CPU load on the 2nd CPU. That would effect your Export times even if your GPU's were being used but not anywhere close to what your seeing. No the nMPro cannot out perform a PC Xeon system with Premiere and Nvidia cards right now if the hardware and software configuration are right and atleast the same level. Once again though the PC's have far more configuration options which is why they are the overall better option unless a client has to get OSX.

                             

                            Eric

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                              Laser LTD Level 1

                              Well it seems the Mac Pro is the better option for me as this system is just not performing. Also, I thought the CPU does most of the encoding work? The GPU just helps with the renders on export and on playback, right?

                               

                              People have been telling me the faster processor speeds of the Mac Pro's are why they are encoding faster... but surely over double the amount of cores would be faster even if the core clock per core is lower? I mean the workhorse may be a little slower, but if there are over twice as many then surely they will get the job done quicker? I would really like an actual adobe techy to weigh in on this.

                               

                              The Mac Pro can also have up to four times as many effects on the timeline before it drops frames. The hp system drops frames vedy easily.

                              • 12. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Laser LTD wrote:

                                 

                                I'm using premiere not AE.

                                How come earlier in post 2 you stated:  "Our test sequences were using day4night effects, which I thought the GPU cards?"  From my searching around this is apparently only an Adobe After Effects effect that then the functions are brought back into Premiere.  It is strictly a CPU processed effect and as I theorized earlier and supported by your results of much less CPU usage on your second CPU that this effect is not well multithreaded.  It only makes sense that faster CPU cores in the Mac will win out over the number of cores any day of the week if the multithreading is not good. You may have discovered a very unique bug as not to many people use this effect and end up comparing it in on a PC to Mac.

                                 

                                Todd Kopriva or Steve Hoeg might be the people to comment on this after they get back from the NAB show.

                                 

                                If you really want to compare the PC and the Mac delete that effect and see how your exporting results compare.  You should be pleasently surprised!

                                • 13. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  The CPU's have to decode and encode the media. However many of the frame properties that require significant calculations on CPU's such as scaling, Interpolation, and some effects are done of the GPU's on export just as they are on realtime playback. This significantly changes the export time. To give you an idea, our main benchmark test project, takes 2 hours to export CPU and 30 minutes with the GPU acceleration. That is with the resolution staying the same at 1080P for both source media and export. That is the difference just from the GPU acceleration. Some codecs thread better than others. The codecs that thread better such as Red have far better performance with far more cores such as Dual Xeons than less cores with 4.5GHz. The codecs  especially AVC/Mpeg 4 based dont thread nearly as well. Those will have far better CPU performance with less threads at 4.5GHz. That is why some systems with lower specs show better results for export/rendering on those projects. However GPU acceleration by itself has considerable impact on cores/threads versus GHz. GPU acceleration is a pipeline. The data has to decode at the cpu and then buffers are created in system ram which are used to move the data to the GPU ram for GPU processing. When the GPU is finished then the data is moved back to system ram for CPU final processing and encoding. What this means is higher GHz can effect your GPU processing due to how fast the data gets down to the GPU through the pipeline. However that factor is not greater than the ideal threading for the CPU decoding and Encoding of the codecs in question. So you want atleast the ideal amount of threads for the codecs and FX used and then GHz is the next key.


                                  Eric

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                    Any AE comp linked in will signficantly lower the CPU load when that part of the sequence is rendering.

                                     

                                    Eric

                                    ADK

                                    • 15. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                      Laser LTD Level 1

                                      I have no AE comp. Day4night is now an effect selectable inside Premiere Pro CC. I have also tried other effects and the Mac Pro still performs significantly better.

                                      • 16. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                        Then you dont have your AE settings correct and or using PNG media which doesnt thread well currently on Windows with AE. It could be the FX since some FX dont thread well or havent been updated on the Windows side of AE. AE is all CPU threading and ram. No way a 6 Core can outperform a 12 Core if the comp threads well.

                                         

                                        Eric

                                        ADK

                                        • 17. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                          Laser LTD Level 1

                                          Just a quick update. We tested using the following file http://www.mediacollege.com/downloads/video/hd/shuttle-flip.mp4 for the test.

                                           

                                          We tried to eport with a 3rd party plugin called C.I Crop with OpenCL on Mac and CUDA on HP Z820 and we noticed that my gpu load was hardly doing anything on both cards. In fact the second card was doing nothing. We then switched to software only and the HP Z820 won by approx 10 seconds.

                                           

                                          We then added Day4Night to the export and this is where things get interesting. On both software and hardware the Mac Pro won out. When in software the HP Z820's second CPU was spiking but hardly working... overall CPU load was 52% whereas the Mac cpu was at around 95% on ALL tests.

                                           

                                          In playback on the timeline on the HP Z820 was using aound 50% gpu load on one card and only around 10-15% on the second card. So I am guessing there are several issues going on here on the HP Z820. Day4Night doesn't seem to use both CPU's on the HP Z820 and the multi-gpu K4000's are not working hard at all on all tests, although they work slightly harder on playback. I have no way of testing the Mac GPU load as GPU-Z is windows only.

                                           

                                          I would really like some feedback from Adobe on this matter.

                                           

                                          regards

                                          Costa

                                          • 18. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                            That points to the 3rd party plugin threading and not Adobe. I suggest you report these findings to them.


                                            Eric

                                            ADK

                                            • 19. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                              Laser LTD Level 1

                                              Hi just an update. It seems it is a driver issue which I cannot rectify. When I uninstall the Nvidia Quadro drivers and then reinstall them the system runs fine, but as soon as I restart the pc the issue comes back again. Do you know if using multiple monitors also stiffles performance?

                                               

                                              It's strange... my pc at home, which I built (2600k @ 4.2GHz and SLI 670's with 8GB RAM) flies on Premiere Pro CC. I used the exact same timeline as that of the one at work and I could playback with ZERO drops frames with ALL the effects on. A system which cost me 2k to build is MUCH faster than a HP Z820 @ 7k and Mac Pro at 3.2k. I might take my SLI 670's in to work and try them in the HP Z820 and see how it goes. Do you think I will get better performance? I know the 670's have more CUDA cores (1344 to the K4000's 768) but I thought the Quadro drivers were more optimised and better suited to these tasks. I guess I was wrong.

                                               

                                              Also, I was told I might need to install CUDA sepcific drivers but when I did that it made little effect and actually made it worse in playback mode. Do I need to install CUDA sepcific drivers in windows?

                                              • 20. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                8GB of ram is really to low for HD and Adobe especially with more than 1 GPU involved. GPU acceleration is a ram hog so I don't see how 8GB can feed 2 video cards at all. Quadro drivers have nothing to do with GPU acceleration. They are specific to certain Open GL plugins. Cuda is open and standard across all Nvidia cards whether Quadro or Geforce.

                                                 

                                                Eric

                                                ADK

                                                • 21. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                  Laser LTD Level 1

                                                  Yet it runs better than my HP Z820... surely that suggests an issue with the HP? What drivers should I install for CUDA?

                                                  • 22. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                    No that just means the plugins dont thread well and run better on faster CPU's. 4.2GHz will always show better performance than 2.7GHz with poor threading by a decent amount. However the GPU acceleration is not working right if your load is below 10% on the GPU if you only have 1. If you have 2 then it depends on the memory management and scaling for the 2nd.

                                                     

                                                    Eric

                                                    ADK

                                                    • 23. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                      Laser LTD Level 1

                                                      Ok what will get me better performance in my current system on playback and render (forget export for now). Would dual 780ti be better than dual K4000's?

                                                      • 24. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                        A single 780Ti would over the Dual Quadro K4000. However you need to report your testing to those plugin companies.

                                                         

                                                        Eric

                                                        ADK

                                                        • 25. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                          JEShort01 Level 4

                                                          When are you going to run the PPBM7 benchmark as you replied back on April 7th?

                                                           

                                                          This is a really useful tool to test with Adobe your CPU, GPU, and drive throughput.

                                                           

                                                          Please try it soon and report back your findings.

                                                           

                                                          I am currently thinking that Eric is right-on that some third party plug-in is flawed and causing you grief, but you really should run PPBM7 to determine if your system is working properly. And, if there is a driver, configuration, hardware, or other problem you can chase that down. And if your system is performing similar to other users with similar hardware, then you can be certain that the poor showing of your dual Xeon is due to the third party plug in.

                                                           

                                                          Regards,

                                                           

                                                          Jim

                                                          • 26. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                            Laser LTD Level 1

                                                            Jim I would love to, but last time I tried all the the download links were broken.

                                                             

                                                            Edit - I just tried again and I got a 404 - Category not found error again.

                                                            • 27. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                              Laser LTD Level 1

                                                              OK so I managed to get it working and the results are: -

                                                               

                                                              1. Disk I/O time = 92 seconds This means Premiere dis write rate is 403.17 MB/second

                                                               

                                                              2. Time to encode H.264 timeline = 94 seconds

                                                               

                                                              3. System MPE gain of 247/31=8

                                                               

                                                              So where do I compare these results?

                                                              • 28. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                JEShort01 Level 4

                                                                Costa,

                                                                Good, your system does appear to be working OK. In summary your CPU is strong (H.264-BR test), disk I/O is OK, video is OK (MPEG2 DVD test).

                                                                Your results are:

                                                                Disk I/O = 92 secs (403 MB/s)

                                                                MPEG2 DVD = 31 secs

                                                                H.264-BR = 94 secs

                                                                Total = 217 secs

                                                                You can go to http://ppbm7.com/index.php/results/new-ppbm6-results to compare your composite scores with other users. Clicking on the column headers does a nice sort to make this easy.

                                                                So, what does this mean?

                                                                • Your system does not seem to have any major build issues
                                                                • A single GTX 780 Ti would be faster for DVD exports (GPU); I'm not sure how dual 670's would fare
                                                                • I'm reaching here, but I am suspicious that something related to your whole Thunderbolt setup could have a lot to do with your overall timeline issues (dropped frames, etc.). When drives are attached to your motherboard or a physical RAID card, Windows RAM caching helps a lot with passing drive data to and from the physical drives. If you had two Crucial M550 SSDs in a RAID 0 connected to your motherboard (Samsung 840 Pros, Intel 730 SSDs are good too) and used that for working area storage, I would expect your system to feel more responsive
                                                                • Pro Res 422 is a video format developed by Apple; maybe a better test would be using native video footage on both systems
                                                                • If you have anything in your workflow that prevents Adobe from using multi-core CPU threads then your CPU strength is only OK. Your cores are not uber-fast, you simply have lots of them. Very likely the third party plug-in(s) you are using as Eric has sugggested.

                                                                Questions:

                                                                How responsive were the PPBM6 test timelines on your system? How were dropped frames when doing playback at different resolutions (full, 1/2, 1/4, etc.)?

                                                                Suggestions:

                                                                Stop using an intermediate codec with dual 8-cores

                                                                Find Adobe filters / plug-ins that are compatible with what you are wanting to create that are fully multi-thread enabled

                                                                Add some internal drives for your working space (from 2 to 4 drives, SSDs with good write performance or 7200 RPM drives), configure as RAID 0, and use your RAID 5 external drive for daily backups

                                                                Leave your GPUs alone unless you really need DVD export speed

                                                                Consider swapping some of your PCIe cards around. Assuming that HP has a similar motherboard to Dell's, different PCIe cards are fed by different CPUs. I got good performance using a Dell T7600 dual Xeon with CPU1 PCIe slots feeding: GPU #1 and #2 (EVGA GTX Titan superclocked) and CPU2 PCIe feeding: Areca RAID card. If HP's thunderbolt card has a poor design too, it could be bringing the performance down from other PCIe cards installed on a shared bus.

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                Jim

                                                                • 29. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  Thank you Jim,  you are our dual processor PPBM6/7 leader and expert and it looks like your comments are on the money.  Later today I will do some rereading but everything in your post looks good.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                    Laser LTD Level 1

                                                                    Yes thanks Jim,

                                                                    I must admit that I too was looking at the external TB as being the issue. Although, I am still getting higher read and write speeds than the Mac Pro's external TB array. However I'm still getting lower read/writes than my previous setup with the same array. The fact that the HP card software is telling me that the array is not windows compatible (it is) is also worrying. Would using ExFAT rather than NTFS also hinder performance?

                                                                     

                                                                    As for PCIe slots. I have used the slots HP recommend in the HP Z820 manual... but I do remember getting slightly better performance before I moved it to the offically recommended slots...

                                                                     

                                                                    Moving onto codecs, ProRes is something I need to use unfortunately. I have an Atomos Ninja and Atomos Samurai and although the latter has support for both DNxHD and ProRes, the former does not. Maybe I can upgrade to a Ninja 2 or similar? If I moved to DNxHD would it support all the cores on my CPU?

                                                                     

                                                                    I have not tried the PPBM7 timeline yet. I am home for the day.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thank you all so much for helping me out here!

                                                                    • 31. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                      JEShort01 Level 4

                                                                      Thank you back Bill, and thank you Harm!

                                                                       

                                                                      I would not know much about this stuff without your and Harm's work on PPBM. Kudos too to Eric and Harm's fruitful posts over the years to this and other forums.

                                                                       

                                                                      On the subject of www.ppbm7.com, I have two new suggestions:

                                                                      - Nuke HELGES-DATOR's results; there is no way that a Core 2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.6 GHZ could grind out a 34 second blu-ray export time!

                                                                      - Include "PPBM6 Results" on the "benchmark results" drag-down menu even when you are not logged in; this has confused me more than once and possibly others as well that are looking for something like this results table, but if they are not logged in, they may not know what they are missing.

                                                                       

                                                                      Regards,

                                                                       

                                                                      Jim

                                                                      • 32. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                        The slots can definitely have an impact with 2GPU's installed. I would use the recommended slots. DNxHD will perform better if in MXF format versus Pro Res Quicktime files.

                                                                         

                                                                        Eric

                                                                        ADK

                                                                        • 33. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                          Laser LTD Level 1

                                                                          And what if it is a DNxHD codec within a .mov wrapper?

                                                                          • 34. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                            No that would still have the same performance as Pro Res.

                                                                             

                                                                            Eric

                                                                            ADK

                                                                            • 35. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                              forgottenrebell Level 1

                                                                              That HP Z820 should kick the Mac pros butt! For example we run Autodesk Flame systems ( 150k software) on the Z820's with Quadro 6000 cards and they fly. We also had a new mac pro in for testing a few months ago w the dual fire pro cards all decked out and it was crap next the the Z820. Of cource the new MP cant run allot of highend software because of its lack of nvidia support and the firepros lack of open GL but we did run premier and smoke etc  on it for testing. ( Although i thought it looked cool the total lack of exandability and nvida support  was to much so we sent it back). Graphic workstations need PCIe expandability and a choice in GPs.

                                                                               

                                                                              Anyhow here are a few observations:

                                                                               

                                                                              -Software being used will dertermine the hardware purchased,

                                                                               

                                                                              -The dual xeons at the much lower clock speed are meant to work 24/7 like a lamans endurance race, not a sprint race.  Better to get highest frequency xeons.

                                                                               

                                                                              -Having dual CPUs with all thoughs cores will only work with a software that is properly mulithreaded, premier is definetly not one of those softwares so you not getting any advantage.

                                                                               

                                                                              - the advantage to Quadro cards are much more noticable in 3d tha 2d. If your running Autodesk maya, 3ds max or the recently disscontinued XSI you would be flying compared to the W7000.

                                                                               

                                                                              -dual GPU cards do not preform at twice the speed. On average the second card gives about a 10 percent boost.

                                                                               

                                                                              -At present ( and as akways) , nividia Quadro drivers are much more uptodate and bug free compared to ATI highend cards. This will inevitably change as openCL over takes openGL, until then Quadros are the clearly superior cards for those with DEEP pockets.

                                                                               

                                                                              -I think you would have been far better off with a single Quadro 6000 vs dual K4000s. Also any higher end ATI firepro card would have worked since Premier now uses open CL and no longer needs openGL. Main advantage to Quadro at this point (  besides 3D ) is to be compatible with the most softwares and get the best and most optimized drivers. Firepros will work properly in far fewer softwares at this point but I can see a day over the next few years this may change but not as of yet in 2014. So his W7000 wins this sprint race in this single simple example but in most any other situations your cards will actually work and win. I like saving money like the next guy but I even purchase Quadro cards for my home use and experimenting, but Im not a gamer.

                                                                               

                                                                              -FYI: Cuda core count no longer is true measure. For example older Fermi cards worked at twice the frequency than the newer kepler architecture so in effect today you need double ( actually more) the amount of cuda cores to equal the older cards. Also the true compute power in the new Keplers is also much inferior to the older cards.  Its all creative advertiseing today more akin to creative accounting / smoke and mirrors. What im trying to explain is when people read the charts that show the cuda core count and say the higest is best is completely not true. It may have the most "cores" but it will not render correctly, double percision is missing, colors may pop, anti aliasing is inferior and inconsistant,  interaction ( most important) and shaders will be buggy or missing. There are very good reasons people spend money on highend Quadro cards but the charts and reviews generically speaking never understand or can even test for this stuff.

                                                                               

                                                                              -Even given the above scenarios your Z820 should be killing your competition. Using a decked out Z820 is way overkill for anything CC. ( Kinda like driving an F1 to get groceries.)  get your HP rep to come over and replace / test your rig. Its free and covered in your coverage.

                                                                               

                                                                              I am CLEARLY not a tech guy as my talent in is creation and design but I overhear the tech guys talking.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                                Laser LTD Level 1

                                                                                Thanks for the information forgottenrebell! People keep telling me about the HP support, but in my packaging I had no contact numbers or any kinda of information regarding repairs. Do all HPZ820 owners get this level of support or do you have to pay extra

                                                                                 

                                                                                I also hate how the HPZ820 takes AGES to boot up to Windows. It really seems to hang.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Issue with HP Z820 64GB RAM and dual Quadro K4000's and rendering and playback performance
                                                                                  forgottenrebell Level 1

                                                                                  There are a few different levels of support, usually with a Zseries you get 3 years on site replacement meaning they will come to you within one day of registering the issue and fix or replace any and all hardware if needed at no cost to you. The next level is not quite as good but basically you bring it to the nearest HP rep and they will then fix or replace whats needed there and you bring it home.  One or both of these options came with your system purchase for sure. All you have to do is call your reseller or HP support direct ( under business computers support) and explain to the first level guys whats wrong and then second level will make it all happen.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  This support on the professional  Z20 series systems is part of the price and second to none. I work in visual effects and basically the entire commercial / film industry is run on HP systems. We lose to much money if a system is off line and cannot produce so keeping the systems up and running is paramount so HP it is.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Also keep in mind your system takes longer to boot up for many reasons. It has ECC memory that checks its self carefully for errors at boot up with extra integrity checks etc. on your drives and because of this it takes longer to boot. This is a small price to pay for it being rock solid and not crashing like a custom built rig or most other competators will do. The Z series has been built from hardware parts designed specifcally to work together and becase of this its one of the few setups reccomended and supprted by all highend software comanies in the industry. This system runs incredable on Linux! ( For that matter any software runs better on Linux. )

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Need to mention this, your going to be able to purchase the new HP thunderbolt 2 PCIe card and day now for about 175 bucks and next month theres the new HPs PCIe SSD card ( Turbodrive) for cheap. I have been running PCIe SSD cards on my home systems since 2009 ( back when they cost BIG bucks) and im a big believer.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Always remember, let the job dictate the software and let the software dictate the hardware.( Not that i know anything but it sounds right.)