9 Replies Latest reply on Apr 10, 2014 3:23 PM by Shuttle73

    Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II

    Shuttle73 Level 1

      Hi Guys.

       

      I'm getting strange render results when I render out CC Particle Systems II cubes and tetrahedrons.

       

      I have the particles cascading out towards the viewer and they look great when I preview render in AFX but when I do a full render to H.264 mp4 they start really crisp and clear then turn in to a really pixelated mess as the render continues. It's odd. I tried rendering through Adobe media encoder but it's the same. I also tried just rendering the particle part of the comp and it does the same thing. Am I missing some settings?

       

      Any help would be greatly appreciated.

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
          Shuttle73 Level 1

          Update - It's fine when I render a bit lossless so it looks like the H.264 compression is messing it up.

          • 2. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
            Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

            Yeah, sure.

             

            Mylenium

            • 3. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
              Shuttle73 Level 1

              Any recomendations on rendering for youtube? My comp is 720p and mostly made up of effects not video footage. I tried the youtube preset in media encoder and it looks bad.

              • 4. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
                Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Looking bad on YouTube or looking bad when you render. I have found no problems with the presets in AME for YouTube or Vimeo.

                 

                A screenshot of your video or a link would help diagnose the problems.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
                  Shuttle73 Level 1

                  Thanks for the replies...

                   

                  This is frame 1 of the rendered movie:

                  testFrame1.png

                  This is a frame from the middle of the same rendered movie:

                  testFrame20.png

                   

                  The quality seems to get terrible after the first couple of frames. Only seems to be on the CC Particle Effect parts of the render.

                  • 6. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
                    Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Without seeing it in motion, it sounds like normal issues you would experience with an interframe compression scheme like H.264

                     

                    H.264 works on the principle of a few full frames scattered among a bunch of incomplete frames with interpolated data. Your first frame would be a keyframe with full data and that middle frame would be one that's incomplete. The reason it looks worse when the particles are on the screen is that there's also a lot more data happening. In the rest of your project, the compression is barely noticeable. This is an issue any time you are trying to design for broadcast or the web. Heck, you can even see this kind of artifacting in major releases. See, for example, the Planet Earth Blu-ray in any of the shots involving a massive flock of birds. You can see compression artifacts despite the pristine quality you would expect from them. There's only so much data you can squeeze out of a frame (to make it easily playable) before certain artifacts will creep in.

                     

                    You can either redesign to make it less likely to have artifacts when compressed or you can rest assured that most normal people won't even notice something like this as it flies past them on the screen.

                     

                     

                    Now, this is all assuming your particles are moving quickly. If it looks like that with slow, smooth motion, something else may be wrong.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
                      Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      First, both of those screenshots have been scaled. I can not judge anything from images that are scaled down.

                       

                      Secondly, suspect that you can improve the quality of the render in AME by increasing the data rate, making sure that multi pass is enabled, enable HQ everywhere you can. Something like this:

                       

                      Screen Shot 2014-04-10 at 2.16.27 PM.png

                       

                      It would also have help if you had started your project in full HD...

                       

                      Let us know if you don't know how to open these rendering options.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
                        bogiesan Level 4

                        Shuttle73 wrote:

                        Hi Guys.

                        I'm getting strange render results when I render out CC Particle Systems II cubes and tetrahedrons.

                        I have the particles cascading out towards the viewer and they look great when I preview render in AFX but when I do a full render to H.264 mp4 they start really crisp and clear then turn in to a really pixelated mess as the render continues. It's odd. I tried rendering through Adobe media encoder but it's the same. I also tried just rendering the particle part of the comp and it does the same thing. Am I missing some settings? Any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks

                        The other guys have offered what we can. But I'm stil confused by the term you're using, "render." Rendering out to a highly compressed codec like H.264 is a bad idea. I render to any superb codec and then transcode or encode to a release codec like H.264. Trying to render directly to an interframe codec is asking for all kinds of weirdness. In the olden days we used to take the rendered output form After Effects, at its finest lossless codec available, and then add a 2-pixel blur filter to the entire movie, render again, and THEN transcode using Cleaner. Awesome results, usually because the number of distinct pixels had been dramatically reduced. The encoder had far less work to do while averaging and looking ahead.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Poor quality when rendering CC Particle Systems II
                          Shuttle73 Level 1

                          Thanks for all this help guys! I will try some of your suggestions tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

                           

                          Thanks again