12 Replies Latest reply on Apr 22, 2014 6:17 AM by rob day

    Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.

    RLSJR Level 1

      Why are the Pantone Color tables/libraries in INDD CS6 and CC giving the incorrect process builds?

        • 1. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Starting with CS6 all Pantone spot colors are Lab so they convert more accurately to the output space you specify. If you want the old books you can install them. See http://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/pantone-plus.html#main-pars_text_11

          • 2. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
            RLSJR Level 1

            Thanks Peter for the information but what I am talking about is more than just a small change to a procees build. If we use CS5.5 .indd for Pantone 289 process build it is correct at 100C,64M,0Y and 60K. If we use CS 6 or CC .indd the build for 289 changes to 84.53C,63.33M,36.47Y and 75.56K. I think the real problem is that the folks that design the art just select a Pantone color based off of a Pantone swatch book, which they use to check Contract Proofs with, and never really pay attention to what the color will really look like in a smaller CMYK color space. But it appears that Adobe has made some changes to the Pantone Libraries that are completely different than older versions.

            • 3. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Open the Ink Manger in  CS5.5 and check the box to Use Standard Lab Values for Sopt COlors and I think you'll find the mix will change to match CS6 and later, IF you are using the same CMYK working spaces.

              • 4. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                RLSJR Level 1

                I did just that in CS 5.5 and I received a different build. I got 100C,84.22M,41.89Y and 50.43K this is different than the builds I was getting before and matches neither. The customer had sent their spec in for Pantone 289 as C100,64M,0Y and 60K.

                 

                For clients that have brand colors using the old Pantone standards the libraries need to match. This particular client built their art in CS6 and select 2 pantone colors 289 and 186. They also provided their brand sheet and neither of these match the readings from Illustartor or InDesign.

                 

                And we have set the color settings set for Gracol. All programs in the suite are set through CS6 Adobe Bridge.

                • 5. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                  I did just that in CS 5.5 and I received a different build. I got 100C,84.22M,41.89Y and 50.43K this is different than the builds I was getting before and matches neither.

                   

                   

                  If you want the legacy definitions you have to follow the directions in the link in Peter's #1 post—delete the new PANTONE + spot libraries, install the old libraries and uncheck Use Standard Lab Values for Spots.

                   

                  They also provided their brand sheet and neither of these match the readings from Illustartor or InDesign.

                   

                  If you don't want color managed conversions of spot colors Pantone now provides CMYK simulation libraries—PANTONE + Color Bridge. Those colors are process and will attempt to simulate solid spot colors but for one assumed press profile. Color Bridge builds are still different from the legacy CMYK builds.

                  • 6. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                    RLSJR Level 1

                    Well thanks to everyone for the information. Being that most of our designers look at "old" swatch books I guess we will go with the legacy builds they seem to be what is expected from our clients.

                     

                    Again appreciate all the info.

                    • 7. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I guess we will go with the legacy builds they seem to be what is expected from our clients.

                       

                      You might ask why the client is providing a spot color if the job is printing CMYK?

                      • 8. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                        RLSJR Level 1

                        Same reason they send RGB Art/Images/Swatch Colors. You can give them Specs. but it's always the same answer, they don't have time for that or they really don't realize what they done. Even if they did convert the color to process it would probably not be correct. Not many folks these days know what a color is going to look like just by looking at builds. Most of them probably don't even realize they can change the color management settings. But color doesnt seem to be as critical as it once use to be. Until you print something and the client, even though they sign off on the proof, says it doesn't look like my laser printer or my monitor. Oh well just what we have to deal with.

                        • 9. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          Rob Day wrote:

                           

                          If you want the legacy definitions you have to follow the directions in the link in Peter's #1 post—delete the new PANTONE + spot libraries, install the old libraries and uncheck Use Standard Lab Values for Spots.

                           

                          You don't actually have to delete the Pnatone Plus libraries. I have both co-exisiting quite nicely. What you can't do is use both definitions for the same color in the same document.

                          • 10. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            You are right when opening legacy files, but If I place a file with a legacy definition the new Pantone+ Lab definition is used unless the document already has the legacy swatch. There might be a "problem" if the client sent me a logo to place in a new document. So if the intent is to ensure the older device specific CMYK definitions are always used for process simulations, I think you would have to choose Workaround 1 in your link.

                            • 11. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                              RLSJR Level 1

                              I used Workaround 1. Guess I will just have to try and figure out what color build the customer really expects to get. I have both the plus and legacy as Peter stated above and it does work as long as they are not both in the doc as he has stated. Not quite sure why the process builds would be that much different regardless of whether you are using CMYK or LAB. LAB will give you a more precise color reading but the dot percentage shouldn't be that much different. Legacy builds seems to be more true to Pantone Colors.

                              • 12. Re: Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Not quite sure why the process builds would be that much different regardless of whether you are using CMYK or LAB.

                                 

                                The CMYK values you get from the Lab colors are a color managed conversion, so the values change depending on the document's CMYK profile. Same thing happens when you convert an RGB or Lab color to CMYK in Photoshop.

                                 

                                The problem with the legacy builds is you can't color manage the conversion of the solid ink to CMYK  for different press conditions. So if you are always printing to a generic US press on coated paper the legacy builds probably don't cause any significant problems. But if you are using the Pantone system to pick a corporate color that gets printed as CMYK in Europe, Japan, and a domestic newspaper, you would need fairly different CMYK numbers to maintain the appearance of that color.