7 Replies Latest reply on Apr 29, 2014 12:20 PM by gator soup

    Out of gamut sRGB confusion

    DeusMerdaeEst Level 1

      I run PS CS6 on a MacPro with an Asus PA279q wide gamut monitor.

       

      When preparing images for the internet, I always convert them to sRGB. Sometimes there are some out of gamut colors, and I fix them with small color balance or saturation adjustments. No problem there.

       

      Today I have been working on some images that have been shot in an ice cave, so there are a lot of blue tones in there and I like them to be as saturated as I saw them. This all goes well until I turn on the gamut warning; the entire image turns grey - almost everything is out of gamut. Trying to get the blue tones back into gamut again seems almost impossible without completely changing the look of the image.

       

      If I ignore the out of gamut warning and convert straight to sRGB, I get a similar result with very desaturated blue tones and a lack of contrast.

       

      Now when I go to a website like 500px.com and look for other ice cave images, there are plenty that look fine with nice saturated colors. And that's where the confusion begins: how can those images have such saturated blues?

       

      So I made a screendump of one of those ice cave images on 500px and opened it in Photoshop (it is untagged, so I selected the Display profile, the top option when opening); still looks very good. But when I turn on the out of gamut warning, everything seems to be out of gamut in this image as well. How is that even possible?

       

      In other words: if you have to convert your images to sRGB for the internet, and saturated blues are not possible in sRGB, how can I see saturated blues in so many pictures on the internet? The moment I convert my ice cave image to sRGB, all the saturation is gone - the result is not even near the original.

       

      What am I missing?

       

      Thanks for your help!

       

      Peter

        • 1. Re: Out of gamut sRGB confusion
          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          You have a wide gamut monitor, remember?

           

          What you're seeing as "saturated" blues are in fact oversaturated by the monitor (or more accurately by the lack of display color management).

           

          You absolutely and unconditionally need to use a web browser with full color management even for untagged images - which narrows it down to just one, Firefox with color management set to mode 1. Safari just won't do.

           

          You're even viewing in Photoshop with color management turned off. No wonder you get saturated blues.

           

          Deep blues and cyans are the first to go in sRGB.

          • 2. Re: Out of gamut sRGB confusion
            DeusMerdaeEst Level 1

            Ok, I'm trying to understand.

             

            If I look at the pictures on 500px.com with the nicely saturated blues in Firefox set to mode 1, they look very good. But how can they? Shouldn't they be sRGB and therefore have desaturated blues and cyans? Or does my wide gamut monitor also oversaturate sRGB images that are in Firefox set to mode 1?

             

            And like I said, when I make a screen dump of said images and open them in PS, they still look very good. Even when I convert them to my working space. I'm lost how that can happen.

             

            Thank you for your help.

            • 3. Re: Out of gamut sRGB confusion
              gator soup Level 4

              all goes well until I turn on the gamut warning; the entire image turns grey - almost everything is out of gamut.

               

               

              View> Gamut Warning uses the profile selected in View> Proof Setup (Soft Proof) i recall - you probably have CMYK selected there by default

               

              if you are working in sRGB you probably don't need to Soft Proof or use Gamut Warning for the Internet or unmanaged environments (just post/deliver sRGB and forget it - it's the best we can do...)

               

              PS:

               

              for printing - you may want to work in more realistic saturation/tone levels and checking View> Proof Setup: Device Profile for problem areas to train your eyes...

              • 4. Re: Out of gamut sRGB confusion
                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                The usual reason for inconsistencies is that the color management chain breaks somewhere. And without full color management that monitor will never display correctly.

                 

                So, there are three conditions that need to be there, and that you need to check.

                 

                • One, does the image have an embedded profile (and is it the correct one)?
                • Two, is the display profile an accurate description of the monitor? How is the Asus calibrated and profiled?
                • Three, are you using software that will read the embedded profile and convert it to the display profile? IOW is it color managed at all?

                 

                If all these three conditions are met, the display is correct. If one is missing a wide gamut monitor will tell you very quickly.

                 

                A special note about untagged images on the web, of which there's a lot: All browsers will abandon all attempts at color management if there is no embedded profile. The one single exception is FF in mode 1, which will assign sRGB. This allows the normal CM chain to operate.

                • 5. Re: Out of gamut sRGB confusion
                  DeusMerdaeEst Level 1

                  Actually, I specifically set sRGB for Soft Proofing.

                   

                  I work in ProPhoto RGB, so if I have to post something on the internet, I use Soft Proofing to see what the color conversion will do. The results are usually nothing to worry about and easily fixed, if necessary. In this case with the ice cave image though, the out of gamut area is so large and so wildly out of gamut that I am unable to fix it - I have to change the hue or color balance dramatically, which obviously completely changes the color of the ice. Desaturating gives similar problems.

                   

                  Printing has never given me any problems - prints look exactly the same as on my monitor.

                  • 6. Re: Out of gamut sRGB confusion
                    DeusMerdaeEst Level 1

                    I will look into the monitor again tomorrow and run some tests.

                     

                    Thanks for your help so far, much appreciated.

                    • 7. Re: Out of gamut sRGB confusion
                      gator soup Level 4

                      Actually, I specifically set sRGB for Soft Proofing

                       

                      so you convert to sRGB then View> Gamut Warning with View> Proof Setup set to sRGB

                      because you wrote:

                       

                      I always convert them to sRGB... This all goes well until I turn on the gamut warning; the entire image turns grey - almost everything is out of gamut.

                       

                       

                      i am not sure what would be the point of that (Gamut Warning or Soft Proofing sRGB source to sRGB destination), but it would appear you have major Out of Gamut RGB color issues that would definitely not translate well to any print spaces i am familiar with

                       

                      or perhaps i am still unclear on what you are doing