28 Replies Latest reply on Aug 19, 2014 6:54 AM by Combat By Design

    Typekit, CC and print vendors

    Ambrwd

      When you're collecting for output/packaging a print project from InDesign and you're using Adobe Typekit, the Typekit fonts will not be packaged. Will there be any sort of warning or message so that both the artist and the print vendor are aware those fonts need to be replaced? Other than that the fonts are missing? It would also be helpful if the message mentioned Typekit so that the vendor knew where to obtain the fonts. I speak from experience, being both a designer and working for a commercial printer. Knowing whether to apply our Typekit fonts or to go back to the client for the fonts is very important. Since many fonts come in slightly different variations we always try to use the client's fonts rather than just tracking down something named the same (or close).

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          Anyone receiving that packaged CC file will be prompted to sync the fonts themselves through Typekit.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
            Ambrwd Level 1

            Thanks, that's what I was hoping. We're just jumping into Creative Cloud as a vendor and Typekit had us all concerned, since not having the correct font can bring a print job to a screaming halt.

            • 3. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
              Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              The other option which will work well is creating a PDF file using a PDF preset preferred by the print vendor. You can still embed Typekit fonts in a PDF file (as well as a DPS project or an EPUB).

              • 4. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                Ambrwd Level 1

                Yes, and most print shops are using a pdf workflow anyway, including us. But we hate to go back to the client and ask them to change the way they've prepared a file if we don't have to. And, if they want changes made - and a surprising number fo clients do - after they send the files, pdfs are a little limiting. Not TOTALLY limiting, but it sure slows us down. Thanks all!

                • 5. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                  Combat By Design Level 1

                  What happens when the printer has CS6, or even 5.5?

                   

                   

                  You can save the file as an IDML, or even a PDF, but if you want to save it as a PDF with type (for future editing) that requires them to have the fonts ANYWAY, No?

                   

                   

                  And from what I've VERY unfortunately learned, CC programs will not cross recognize fonts from the older CS programs with it's current fonts.

                   

                   

                  Example: My resume is graphic based and uses Minion Pro and Arno Pro. I wiped out my computer because I don't use it for anything more than graphics processing at this point in time, and somehow my fonts fell by the wayside and weren't saved (I almost cried) but I Figured it wasn't a big deal because I could download all of those that I was missing from their respective sites again. Well... when I "Synced" Arno and Minion to my computer and I opened the Indd file that is my resume, InDesign didn't recognize the fonts, and told me they were missing, and that I had to replace them... NOT something I wanted to see.

                   

                   

                  So I ended up redefining the styles, but that's not something I'm going to want to do all the time, and is going to cause MAJOR problems if I have to edit an older magazine to make it portfolio worthy.

                   

                   

                  Typekit has me immensely concerned as well.

                  • 6. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                    If you send an IDML to a printer you deserve the headaches you’ll get.

                     

                     

                     

                    Send a PDF.

                    • 7. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                      Ambrwd Level 1

                      I'm also concerned with how Typkit will react with font management software like Suitcase Fusion. I understand that according to Adobe, no font management software is needed. But I'm concerned whether that means that it won't play well with that software? And one of the reasons most folks who use a lot of typefaces use font managment is to keep their system running quickly and not bog it down with more fonts than you really want, along with being able to create sets by project or client. How does Typekit solve those issues?

                       

                      As for sending IDML files, we do get them and have no real problem working with them. There are plenty of reasons to send along working files as well as a pdf. While most of the time print vendors are obligated to have the latest versions of software, there are times when they're not quite up to speed. Often it's because they're still testing the software to see how it reacts with their RIP, whether there are bugs or incompatibilities with other workflow software, and how it will affect their computers. That's why I'm asking questions now, before Typekit potentially disrupts not just my workflow, but that of my coworkers as well.

                      • 8. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                        I can’t speak about anything else but I have no issues with Suitcase Fusion 5 and Typekit.

                        • 9. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                          Combat By Design Level 1

                          You concerns are veryvalid.

                           

                          I work for a screen printing company, and we just upgraded from CS5 six months ago, and were getting CS6 Illustrator files, and had to ask people to save down (which was embarassing) because we couldn't handle the vector files they were sending if they didn't know to save them to EPS...

                           

                          I know there are ways around it like asking them to save it to a PDF, and what-not, but in reality any company should be prepared for any file that comes at them... and if they're not, and/or they specifically want an InDesign file as opposed to a PDF (Again, I know it's not likely), and I have to save down to an IDML because they're stuck on 6, that presents a problem with packaged fonts....no?

                          • 10. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                            BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                            Progress is progress. There is no way I want to see progress slowed down because some luddite printer doesn’t want to spend $50/month to support their customers.

                            • 11. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                              Combat By Design Level 1

                              I'm definitely not disagreeing with you, so don't think I am. These are all scenarios and questions that should be explored when you enter a new round of programming in any series.

                               

                              I'm not saying Adobe should be worried about it, because let's face it: Pantone doesn't, Mac Doesn't, Dell Doesn't, Sony Doesn't because they're leaders of the pack, but as consumers we need to ask these questions. If I need 150 menus printed in two days, because a restaurant I'm doing a job for didn't order enough for their opening I probably can't go to a big printing company and get them done, but I might be able to go to the mom and pop shop close by that hasn't updated yet... so I need to figure it out.

                               

                              I did find out that you can package the entire typekit font into the PDF with no problems, and I'm going to send myself a packaged file from my work computer tomorrow to see if I can open it without typekit at home.

                              • 12. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                Ambrwd Level 1

                                Let us know what happens. I'd expect that any fonts from Typekit will not be packaged. But it will be interesting to see/hear what messages you get!

                                • 13. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                  I agree that anyone stuck with one said luddites should be doing their homework. The beauty of Typekit is that if you activate Typekit font on one machine it will activate on your second machine when you fire it up.

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  I’ve found it to be nearly transparent. Just make sure you have the CC desktop app active.

                                  • 14. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                    They will NOT be packaged but they are fully licensed for embedding into epub, dps, and pdf.

                                    • 15. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                      Ambrwd Level 1

                                      Yup, got that. Now consider this, and please do so with an open mind. You cannot collect those fonts or keep copies of those fonts with your project. Somewhere down the line Adobe decides that they really don't want to be in the font business and move away from Typekit and stop supporting it. The fonts you've been using in your work simply disappear. Your client wants you to make changes to that file and have it to the printer tomorrow morning. What do you do?

                                       

                                      I'm not disagreeing with your points Bob, I'm just trying to express my concerns and see if anyone else is thinking the same way. Essentially we're "renting" these fonts for the period of time we have a subscription to CC and that Adobe supports this "product". It is a bit of a game changer.

                                       

                                      Thanks!

                                      • 16. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                        Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                        Combat By Design wrote:

                                        …because we couldn't handle the vector files they were sending if they didn't know to save them to EPS...

                                        You should not use EPS with InDesign anyway. But they can save easy in Illustrator backward to an older AI file and this can be placed in InDesign without problem.

                                        • 17. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                          Combat By Design Level 1

                                          That statement had nothing to do with InDesign, it was about vector files, and legacy versions of the program. I'm well aware that you shouldn't be using EPS files in InDesign

                                           

                                          You should probably read the full post before commenting on it.

                                           

                                          and Ambrwd I haven't yet sent a packaged file over to my home machine... I'll try that today.

                                          • 18. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                            Ambrwd Level 1

                                            Sorry, maybe I missed something. Why should you not use eps files with InDesign? Our clients (and I myself) do it all the time with no problem. Of course they/we also use AI files and PDFs, all of which seem to work just fine.

                                             

                                            BTW, everybody play nice. The idea here is to learn from each other, not intimidate each other.

                                             

                                            CBD, thanks for taking the time to experiment!

                                            • 19. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                              .eps format is more prone to output problems than the native formats, but there's certainly no reason you can't use them. They are the first suspects, however, when problems crop up.

                                              • 20. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                And they don't support transparency...

                                                • 21. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                  I agree with Peter. When I receive EPS files, usually logos, I just use them. I don’t bother doing anything with them unless there’s a problem.

                                                  • 22. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                    Ambrwd Level 1

                                                    THanks so much! I actually wasn't aware of that. One of the problems with doing this for so long is that I don't always realize there's a problem with the old workflow (if I remember correctly originally you could ONLY place .eps files in InDesign, not .ai files. Of course transparency was very limited at that point as well.

                                                     

                                                    If and .eps file placed in InDesign is creating a lowres bitmap representation for viewing, what is an AI file creating?

                                                    • 23. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                      BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                      The AI file is actually the PDF portion of the Illustrator file.

                                                      • 24. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                        and the preview will depend on your settings...

                                                        • 25. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                                          AI files can be placed in InDesign at least since InDesign 2.0. To be honest, placing an EPS in 2.0 from a new Illustrator version caused a very unstable behaviour in that time.

                                                          But if you place an AI, InDesign is reading the PDF fork of that file, so you are placing a PDF1.5 or later (with live transparency) technically spoken.

                                                          One thing, I mentioned on another place here, if you place an EPS with spot color and create a PDF via printing/Distiller the ink manager is bypassed for that graphic, and spot colors tagged to a different spot color or to process colors remain unchanged, contrary to the output preview or separation preview in InDesign, because the separation preview assumes that a PDF is created via Export.

                                                          • 26. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                            RaCreate Level 1

                                                            Hi.


                                                            I'm dealing with big qty data merge mail house (printer).

                                                            These systems for better or worse are a bit clunky, they do NOT accept anything but OT fonts.

                                                             

                                                            So now the job is done, signed off and ready to go to print – the end job requires customised laser printing of millions of letters etc so making PDF's at my end is NOT an option.

                                                             

                                                            Anyone got any answers to this other than me having to pay for fonts twice?

                                                             

                                                            Thanks

                                                            • 27. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                              What's your question? What are you sending to the printer? Typekit fonts are fully embeddable in PDF. If you are doing VDP at the printer, then they are going to need their own license for any font they use to add your data I would expect.

                                                              • 28. Re: Typekit, CC and print vendors
                                                                Combat By Design Level 1

                                                                Good luck...

                                                                 

                                                                All I got was this:

                                                                 

                                                                "Progress is progress. There is no way I want to see progress slowed down because some luddite printer doesn’t want to spend $50/month to support their customers."