12 Replies Latest reply on Jan 8, 2008 2:40 PM by senocular

    Displaced pixels

    Fireworks_forever
      Hi

      I am currently working on really small icons (11x11 pixels, using Fireworks 8) and some of the details in them are anti-aliased. I convert them to symbols in order to use them throughout the document and I make sure their edges are sharp. However, when I re-open the file the icons are all blurred out on the edges and anti-aliased. When i click them with the Subselection tool I see that their anchor points are right in between the pixelareas!! They are displaced when I re-open the file. This is enormously irritating and I have to go over every anchor point with the subselection tool to put them straight. The same thing often happens when I copy-paste an icon from one document to the other. This happens although I select "Hard" in the edge pop-up box.

      How can I avoid this?

      Kind regards and in desperate need of a reply

      Magnus
        • 1. Re: Displaced pixels
          Level 7
          Fireworker_in_need wrote:
          > Hi
          >
          > I am currently working on really small icons (11x11 pixels, using Fireworks 8)
          > and some of the details in them are anti-aliased. I convert them to symbols in
          > order to use them throughout the document and I make sure their edges are
          > sharp. However, when I re-open the file the icons are all blurred out on the
          > edges and anti-aliased. When i click them with the Subselection tool I see that
          > their anchor points are right in between the pixelareas!! They are displaced
          > when I re-open the file. This is enormously irritating and I have to go over
          > every anchor point with the subselection tool to put them straight. The same
          > thing often happens when I copy-paste an icon from one document to the other.
          > This happens although I select "Hard" in the edge pop-up box.
          >
          > How can I avoid this?
          >
          > Kind regards and in desperate need of a reply
          >
          > Magnus
          >

          With something that small, why not use the bitmap pencil tool? This
          would work unless you are resampling the files later on to a larger size.

          --
          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
          Extending Knowledge, Daily
          http://www.communityMX.com/
          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
          ---
          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
          news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
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          • 2. Re: Displaced pixels
            Fireworks_forever Level 1
            I still need to resize things later on and some icons are bigger (13x13 for instance). I also need to work with gradients and these are hard to tweak with the bitmap pencil.

            Is this displacement issue a bug or am I doing something wrong?

            M
            • 3. Re: Displaced pixels
              Level 7
              See if this links helps any:

              http://www.adobe.com/go/d6f2172a

              alex

              Fireworker_in_need wrote:
              > I still need to resize things later on and some icons are bigger (13x13 for
              > instance). I also need to work with gradients and these are hard to tweak with
              > the bitmap pencil.
              >
              > Is this displacement issue a bug or am I doing something wrong?
              >
              > M
              >
              • 4. Re: Displaced pixels
                Fireworks_forever Level 1
                This is good information but I can't find a solution for my problem. When the object is blurred, and the property inspector says it is anti-aliased, I have tried to set it to "hard" but the result is that the objects original shape is skewed. Thus I have to remake it.

                I've also tried to understand WHEN this happens exactly, to be able to avoid a certain action but I have not found any consistency in the behaviour. Please let me know if there are any work-arounds for this. It is very critical.

                M
                • 5. Re: Displaced pixels
                  Level 7
                  Did you try any of the extension mentioned at the end of the article?
                  They will definitively help...

                  alex

                  Fireworker_in_need wrote:
                  > This is good information but I can't find a solution for my problem. When the
                  > object is blurred, and the property inspector says it is anti-aliased, I have
                  > tried to set it to "hard" but the result is that the objects original shape is
                  > skewed. Thus I have to remake it.
                  >
                  > I've also tried to understand WHEN this happens exactly, to be able to avoid a
                  > certain action but I have not found any consistency in the behaviour. Please
                  > let me know if there are any work-arounds for this. It is very critical.
                  >
                  > M
                  >
                  • 6. Re: Displaced pixels
                    Fireworks_forever Level 1
                    I can fix the shapes with these extensions or by using the subselection tool but when I re-open the file, the icons are all messed up again! It is as if something happens when I reload the file. When I shut it down it looks good. Then the anchor points fall off the pixels.

                    A weird thing is that things look anti-aliased althoght they are set to "hard". This does sound like a bug. Or am I doing something wrong?


                    M
                    • 7. Re: Displaced pixels
                      Fireworks_forever Level 1
                      Hi again,

                      None of the mentioned extensions seem to help me in this matter.
                      The pixels in the icons I make go from "hard edges" to "anti-aliased" when I have closed the document! If I try to set them back to "hard" they move to other pixel positions than the ones I originally set!

                      This is extremely irritating since I have to re-make all the icons again. I can not use the pencil tool since I want to be able to re-shape the icons as I work with them.

                      Is there a way to force Fireworks to never set a specific icon to "anti-aliased"? I am getting desperate in this matter.

                      M
                      • 8. Re: Displaced pixels
                        Level 7
                        Fireworker_in_need wrote:

                        > Is there a way to force Fireworks to never set a specific icon to
                        > "anti-aliased"? I am getting desperate in this matter.

                        I've never heard of this happening before. Try copying and pasting them
                        into a new canvas.

                        --
                        Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
                        --------------------------------------------------------------
                        http://www.projectseven.com
                        Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
                        CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
                        http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
                        --------------------------------------------------------------
                        • 9. Re: Displaced pixels
                          Level 7
                          Fireworker_in_need wrote:
                          > Hi again,
                          >
                          > None of the mentioned extensions seem to help me in this matter.
                          > The pixels in the icons I make go from "hard edges" to "anti-aliased" when I
                          > have closed the document! If I try to set them back to "hard" they move to
                          > other pixel positions than the ones I originally set!
                          >
                          > This is extremely irritating since I have to re-make all the icons again. I
                          > can not use the pencil tool since I want to be able to re-shape the icons as I
                          > work with them.
                          >
                          > Is there a way to force Fireworks to never set a specific icon to
                          > "anti-aliased"? I am getting desperate in this matter.

                          There should be. For strokes set them to either a Basic "Hard Line" or
                          Pencil "Pixel Hard" setting. For fills, setting "Edge" to "Hard" in the
                          Property Inspector should do it.

                          Like Linda, I have never seen an object property (stroke or fill) change
                          from a hard setting to an anti-aliased one on its own. What version of
                          Fireworks are you using on what OS? What extensions have you tried?

                          --
                          Stéphane Bergeron
                          reach : connect : communicate
                          http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                          blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                          http://www.pixelyzed.com
                          • 10. Re: Displaced pixels
                            Level 7
                            Stéphane Bergeron wrote:>
                            > Like Linda, I have never seen an object property (stroke or fill) change
                            > from a hard setting to an anti-aliased one on its own. What version of
                            > Fireworks are you using on what OS? What extensions have you tried?

                            Oh and additionally, it may be useful to upload one of your problem
                            files so one of us can examine it.

                            --
                            Stéphane Bergeron
                            reach : connect : communicate
                            http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                            blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                            http://www.pixelyzed.com
                            • 11. Re: Displaced pixels
                              Level 7
                              Try:

                              1 - in the Property Inspector note X, Y, W, H measurements of the source
                              object

                              2 - note X, Y, W and H measurements of the pasted object.

                              Do they differ?

                              What happens if you plug in the source X, Y, W and H values into the
                              pasted object?


                              Fireworker_in_need wrote:
                              > Hi again,
                              >
                              > None of the mentioned extensions seem to help me in this matter.
                              > The pixels in the icons I make go from "hard edges" to "anti-aliased" when I
                              > have closed the document! If I try to set them back to "hard" they move to
                              > other pixel positions than the ones I originally set!
                              >
                              > This is extremely irritating since I have to re-make all the icons again. I
                              > can not use the pencil tool since I want to be able to re-shape the icons as I
                              > work with them.
                              >
                              > Is there a way to force Fireworks to never set a specific icon to
                              > "anti-aliased"? I am getting desperate in this matter.
                              >
                              > M
                              >
                              • 12. Re: Displaced pixels
                                senocular Level 1
                                It is possible that Fireworks interpolation methods may be getting you down. If I remember right (and I could be wrong), in Fireworks 8, depending on what you have set in your preferences for interpolation (Edit > Preferences > General Tab > Interpolation), symbols will be re-rendered with those settings when you open a file. For example, you may be using bicubic to scale a symbol down initially, but if you have nearest neighbor set when opening the PNG, it will re-render using nearest neighbor instead of the original bicubic.

                                Fireworks CS3 ignores this setting for symbols but I want to think Fireworks 8 did not.

                                Beyond that, for symbols about the only control you have over scaling quality is whether or not the symbol is being rendered as pixels or paths. This setting can be adjusted using the Transform panel available at the bottom of the technote Alex posted earlier (bottom left icon in panel).

                                In terms of icons, rarely does it work to take a large icon and have it look good really small without redrawing the icon in the lower resolution. You just may have to be stuck doing that (it will get you the best results anyway).