22 Replies Latest reply on May 25, 2014 11:58 AM by Pbeck1

    I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?

    Pbeck1

      I've done some research on Google, and it says that MBAFF is special scan type that includes a mix of both interlaced and progressive data. I think its still classified as interlaced though. Is it ok to add the clips to a Premiere Elements project that is 1920x1080i interlaced? Will Premiere Elements know how to process them into the project (& without me having to do anything extra)?

       

      Many Thanks.

        • 1. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          If it's an MP4 file, you should be able to, assuming you have the latest version of Quicktime installed.

           

          I can't guarantee Premiere Elements will be able to read the file's codec but, assuming you're using version 11 or 12 of Premiere Elements, it should be able to interpolate the frames.

          • 2. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
            A.T. Romano Level 7

            Pbeck1

             

            Very interesting question and concept.

             

            What version of Premiere Elements are you using and on what computer operating system is it running?

             

            I am not sure how Premiere Elements (any version) will handle your footage. Have not been there with that type of  footage.

             

            But, I would ask the following...if you do manage to import the file with the scan type MBAFF, please let us know the outcome with details.

            a. Properties of the file

            b. Premiere Elements project preset

            c. Playback quality at the Timeline level. And, if you cannot obtain acceptable playback at the Timeline level, could you please continue to export to determine the playback characteristics of the export.  (Please also include your export settings in this instance.)

             

            Thanks.

             

            ATR

            • 3. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
              Pbeck1 Level 1

              Ok, here's my complete situation (bit complex):

               

              I've been making a Premiere Elements 12 project for the last 9 months at my house on my PC (it will be a movie of my child's 3rd year when it's finished this coming August on her birthday). It's a 1920x1080i interlaced HD 25fps project.

               

              All of the clips so far have been recorded on a DSLR camera and are 1920x1080i interlaced (MPEG-TS).

               

              At my child's mother's house there's another PC. On this PC i installed a free program called Shotcut. It's primary purpose was to trim & convert a number of mobile phone video clips from a new mobile phone, ready for me to import into my project back at my home (told you it was a bit complicated, lol). The mobile phone video clips were 1280x720p with variable frame rates (i never even knew a frame rate could be variable for a clip). The frame rates for the clips would vary from 17fps all the way up to 30 from clip to clip (how strange). I was quite happy trimming & converting the mobile phone clips at her house up to 1920x1080i 25fps (h264) with an interlaced setting (to match the other clips i had taken on my DSLR). I now have a collection of these new converted clips at my home ready for inserting into my Premiere Elements project. However, when checking them with MediaInfo it says the clips are correctly 1920x1080 25fps, but the scan type is MBAFF. I have never even heard of MBAFF before! I had asked Shotcut to encode them as interlaced.

               

              In doing some research on Google about a subject i don't really know anything about, I've kinda unconfidently concluded that MBAFF is probably interlaced (my project is interlaced), but that it uses a mix of both interlaced and progressive data. This is why i am confused.

               

              My guess therefore is that my Shotcut program at the other house has indeed encoded the clips to interlaced, but it's a different kind of interlaced, and i have no idea if Premiere Elements can correctly insert them into my project without any problems and without anything extra being done by myself.

               

              Many thanks.

               

              Ps. I'm not at my house atm, so can't check things just yet.

              • 5. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                Pbeck1 Level 1

                I've been trying to get my head around this all day, and doing lots of research on Google. The more i learn the more i realise how much i didn't know, and still don't know! That's life i suppose.

                 

                I think (although i'm not certain) that MBAFF is encoded by x264, and x264 is just an encoding program (or whatever the correct term is). It apparently is not the same thing as h.264, as h.264 is a video codec. I think the x264 program only encodes to MBAFF.

                 

                So perhaps if i want to convert video that ends up as 1920x1080i 25fps interlaced then i would have to have it encoded by something other than x264 (which i don't think Shotcut can do).

                 

                Again, im not certain.

                 

                Certainly will be capturing video in progressive from now on (from her 4th birthday in August).

                 

                Beats me why we need all these different scan types etc. Should be standardised down i feel, lol

                • 6. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  Pbeck1

                   

                  Why not get a baseline result if you have not already? If your video is 1920 x 1080 @ 25 interlaced frames per second or appears to be, then

                   

                  1. Import the video into Premiere Elements 12 Expert workspace with its Add Media/Files and Folders/Project Assets from where you drag the file to the Timeline.

                  a. Go to Edit Menu/Project Settings/General, and tell us what you obtain for

                  Editing Mode

                  Timebase

                  Frame Size

                  Pixel Aspect Ratio

                  b. Right click the file in Project Assets, select Interpret Footage, and tell us what it says in the Frame Rate and Pixel Aspect Ratio fields.

                  c. Look at the Timeline video track content. Is there an orange line over the content right after you drag it to the Timeline for the first time?

                   

                  All of the above goes with the assumption that the video can be imported into the project. Let us see.

                   

                  If all goes well, we can proceed through editing to export and see how far we can get to get the quality of end product that is required.

                   

                  Looking forward to your results.

                   

                  Thanks for the follow ups.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 7. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                    Pbeck1 Level 1

                    Hi ATR, thanks for the reply.

                     

                    Baseline result? What's that?

                     

                    Here's the info:

                     

                    Project: timebase 25fps, frame size 1920x1080, Pixel aspect ratio 1.0, editing mode HD 1080i

                     

                    Interpret footage: frame rate 19.6430, Pixel 1.0

                     

                    A red bar appears across the top if dropped onto the timeline (not orange)

                     

                    Can you add clips of a differing or variable frame rate or scan type into a project? I assumed not due to the project settings that are set at the beginning.

                    • 8. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      Pbeck1

                       

                      Thanks for the details.

                       

                      First I want to make sure about the "variable frame rate". I think that you are asking if you can import different formats to the Timeline even though the frame rate associated with a video format is not the same. Should be OK, but..... However, you can be in for major problems if you mean variable frame rate in terms of the frame rate varying within a given file. Often that can lead to out of sync audio or just plain failure to import. In this situation, the fix is to take the file into a program such as HandBrake and change the variable frame rate to a constant one. We can talk about the details on that next.

                       

                      The project can have one project setting and one export setting. In the area of the project settings and "mixed Timeline", one approach is to set priorities (which is your prime source) and then fit everything else into it.

                       

                      I am curious about

                      A red bar appears across the top if dropped onto the timeline (not orange)

                      I thought that you were working with Premiere Elements 12. If that is the case, the program's indicator for the need for Timeline rendering is orange, not red. In versions of Premiere Elements earlier than 11, the program's indicator for the need for Timeline rendering is red. Please post a screenshot of what you are seeing if otherwise.

                       

                      By baseline, I meant starting point, reference point...just a point from which we could refer back as we looked at various variables in the troubleshooting.

                       

                      If you get a chance, you might want to put the source video through the properties readout program MediaInfo (Tree View) to see what that program shows for frame rate. If variable, there is usually a read for min and max included. Just be careful downloading MediaInfo, avoiding possible unwanted carry alongs with the download.

                      MediaInfo | Free software downloads at SourceForge.net

                       

                      ATR

                      • 9. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                        Pbeck1 Level 1

                        Sorry ATR

                        I have PreE 10 at my childs' mothers house, and PreE 12 at my house. Both have projects with the same settings with clips from the same DSLR. Thought i was being clever using the PreE 10 version whilst there. So yes, bar was red not orange. Not really important though.

                         

                        So if I understand you correctly, you are saying:

                         

                        - Yes, you can add clips with different scan types to a project with different scan type settings to those clips.

                        - Yes, you can add clips with different frame rates too (as long as the frame rate is constant)

                        ^ does anything extra need doing to them once they have been added into the timeline?

                        So how does that work then? How comes we can do that? What is the point in project settings then?

                         

                        Yes MediaInfo says the clips are variable frame rate, and with readings for 'frame rate', 'minimum' and 'maximum' frame rates too. Weird!, lol

                        • 10. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          Pbeck1

                           

                          Confirming and Explaining Further...

                          -

                          Yes, you can add clips with different scan types to a project with different scan type settings to those clips.

                           

                          You can add clips with different scan types (interlaced or progressive) to a project, but you can set only one project preset for a given project. In such cases, you target your prime format and then fit everything else in accordingly. Once you have the content on the Timeline, depending on problems if any, you can right click the file on the Timeline, select Field Options, and explore its options.

                           

                          - Yes, you can add clips with different frame rates too (as long as the frame rate is constant)

                           

                          I have had no problems using video from my iPod Touch 4th Generation or from borrowed iPhone (both get involved with variable frame rates believe to be associated with lighting conditions during recording) However there are many who run into problems with video that uses variable frame rate, such as out of sync audio and to the extreme of not being able to import the footage at all. Then you use a program like HandBrake to change the frame rate from variable to constant.

                           

                          ^ does anything extra need doing to them once they have been added into the timeline?

                           

                          Beside scan type, scan order is a consideration when you are dealing with interlaced video...either Upper Field First or Lower Field First. If your source is interlaced with Upper Field First and the destination is DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc which is characterized by scan order Lower Field first, then application of Field Option may be needed...Reverse Field Dominance, first look. We could go into a conversion about the special project presets Hard Disk Flash Memory Camcorders and automatic change of scan order, but we will omit that for now since I do not feel it is applicable to your "mixed Timeline situation".

                           

                          So how does that work then? How comes we can do that? What is the point in project settings then?

                           

                          The major function of setting the project preset is to direct the program to setup that correct space in the Edit area monitor for editing purposes.  Although the frame rate should be the same as in the project preset, it is not a "must" unless you want to do frame by frame by frame editing. But, the project preset has subtle (scan type/scan order) as well as obvious functions (directing the program as to what disc menu sets to offer you from what it has in the program files (s, w, or hd).

                           

                          Yes MediaInfo says the clips are variable frame rate, and with readings for 'frame rate', 'minimum' and 'maximum' frame rates too. Weird!, lol

                           

                          See if you can get away using them as is. But, if you cannot, then HandBrake or the like to change the variable to constant frame rate. More details (step by step) on that if necessary.

                           

                          Please review and consider and then let us know if you are OK with the information and/or need supplemental information.


                          Thanks.

                           

                          ATR

                          • 11. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                            Pbeck1 Level 1

                            Grateful, for such a detailed reply, learnt a lot.

                             

                            Yep, as you suspected, inserting them into the time line causes the audio to be out of sync for the clip/s

                             

                            Paul.

                            • 12. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              Paul

                               

                              Are you OK with the HandBrake route? Or do you want me to post information on that.

                               

                              The output from HandBrake will be H.264.mp4 with the constant frame rate that you set.

                              http://handbrake.fr/

                               

                              There are other programs that can be used. But, this is the first one that I explored with regard to the variable frame rate issue, and it has worked for me and others.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 13. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                Pbeck1 Level 1

                                Hi ATR

                                 

                                This would be complete new territory for me. I have never used handbrake or anything similar. Be interesting to know your facial expression right now

                                 

                                or or or lol

                                • 14. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                                  Pbeck1

                                   

                                  First reaction was to start typing the HandBrake details of how to get your video into a usable state with a constant rather than variable frame rate. Here goes...

                                   

                                  1. Download and install the HandBrake program from

                                  http://handbrake.fr/

                                   

                                  2. Open the program to its main workspace.

                                  Main.JPG

                                  You can click on the screenshot above to bring up a clear view if you want.

                                   

                                  3. Import your video into the program via Source button at top left of the workspace.

                                  The properties of the video will fall into place without you making adjustments at this point. Where is shows "Chapters", you can change that to seconds. In the Destination field, browse to where you want the end product saved. Give the save a name and OK out of there. Leave the Container setting = Mp4.

                                   

                                  4. Leave the Picture tab settings as is.

                                   

                                  5. Go to the Video tab and make the following changes

                                  Video codec should = H.264 (x264)

                                  In the Framerate field, do not leave that at as Same As Source. Instead set for frame rate for an actual appropriate value in the Framerate drop down list.

                                   

                                  Then, be sure to put a dot next to Constant Framerate.

                                   

                                  Any doubts about what to set for frame rate value, just let me know what the readout program is displaying for "frame rate", minimum frame rate, and maximum frame rate, and I will offer a suggestion on what to set.

                                   

                                  6. Then go to the top left of the workspace and click on the Start button.

                                   

                                  7. When you see "Queue Finished" in the progress bar at the bottom left of the workspace, the job is done. Go to the save location of the video produced with the constant frame rate and determine if that is going to work for you outside and inside Premiere Elements project.

                                   

                                  Keep the thought - "I can do it."

                                   

                                  We will be watching for your results.

                                   

                                  ATR

                                  • 15. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                    Pbeck1 Level 1

                                    Yep managed that, lol

                                     

                                    2 queries:

                                     

                                    The finished file is 85mb and the original was 248mb, so i suspect we need to increase the quality settings? Would i be assuming correctly that each time we modify the file we will be loosing some quality?

                                     

                                    The finished clip is still progressive. Is that what we want? Can handbrake convert to interlaced whilst we are there, or is that not necessary?

                                    • 16. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                                      Pbeck1

                                       

                                      Sounds like progress. Great.

                                       

                                      All video undergoes degradation with repeated re-encoding. Some more so that others.

                                       

                                      If you want to maintain the bitrate and file size, you could set beforehand the HandBrake bitrate comparable to the original file. The HandBrake bitrate found under the Video Tab is an average one in units of kbps (kilobits per second). If your original file's bitrate is expressed in Mbps (megabits per second) and you need help with getting the value for HandBrake, please let  me know the bitrate of the original file.

                                       

                                      Progressive frame rate should be fine. Only if you have interlaced video and are taking it into HandBrake, then consider if it is really necessary to "deinterlace" it. See Filter Tab with the deinterlace filter turned Off by default.

                                       

                                      ATR

                                      • 17. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                        Pbeck1 Level 1

                                        Great, i should be able to handle things from here then (famous last words).

                                         

                                        Would love to know more about why we can use progressive footage in an interlaced project and vice versa, but that's perhaps for another day.

                                         

                                        Many thanks ATR (again!)

                                         

                                        Paul

                                        • 18. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                          Pbeck1 Level 1

                                          Although you have answered my question, i would love to know on the technical side why we can use progressive clips in an interlaced project (or vice versa), i.e how does Premiere Elements do it. Its a very technical question i know, but i have an inquisitive mind i suppose. I can't find anything on Google.

                                           

                                          Any ideas?

                                          • 19. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                                            Pbeck1

                                             

                                            You wrote

                                            ....why we can use progressive clips in an interlaced project (or vice versa), i.e how does Premiere Elements do it....

                                            You already have the answer to the question. Please check out the Adobe document already cited.

                                            http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premiereelements/using/WS09e4b3c48f3a79fc19b622510385d4355c-7f 95.html#WS09e4b3c48f3a79fc19b622510385d4355c-7fa5

                                             

                                            Interlaced to Progressive

                                            At the Timeline Level

                                            Field Options/Field Options dialog

                                             

                                            Always Deinterlace

                                            Converts interlaced fields into whole progressive‑scan frames. Premiere Elements deinterlaces by discarding one field and interpolating a new field based on the lines of the remaining field. It keeps the field specified in the Field Settings option in the Project Settings. If you specified No Fields, Premiere Elements keeps the upper field unless you selected Reverse Field Dominance, in which case it keeps the lower field. This option is useful when freezing a frame in the clip.

                                            Quoted from the above link. To best understand this please review the concepts in the Interlacing explained link posted already.

                                            Interlacing - Luke's Video Guide

                                             

                                            I have no insider information on the Adobe export side, but I would assume that, if you have interlaced video destined for a progressive export, the "deinterlaced" displayed in the Export Settings Summary under the Advanced Button/Video Tab is done at export using the same scheme as described for "Always Deinterlace" under the Timeline Field Options (see above).

                                             

                                            Progressive to Interlaced

                                            At the Timeline Level

                                            Field Options/Field Options dialog

                                             

                                            Interlace Consecutive Frames

                                            Converts pairs of consecutive progressive‑scan (noninterlaced) frames into interlaced fields. This option is useful for converting 60 fps progressive‑scan animations into 30‑fps interlaced video because many animation applications don’t create interlaced frames.

                                            Quoted from the Adobe document link above. For concepts of fields/frames, please see the "Interlacing - Luke's Video Guide" link given above. The Adobe scheme appears specific for 60p to 30i since one might project, according to this description, that 30p would go to 15i if Interlace Consecutive Frames was applied to 30p at the Timeline level??

                                             

                                            I have no insider information on the Adobe export side of the Progressive to Interlaced, but the end result is frames converted to fields. So, during export of a 30 (29.97) progressive frames per second source, each frame is likely split into 2 fields, giving the end result 30 (29.97) interlaced frames per second, representing 60 (59.94) fields per second. This probable explanation would appear to be different than the scheme that Adobe cites for the Timeline Field Options/Interlace Consecutive Frames description.

                                             

                                            Please review and consider.

                                             

                                            Thanks.

                                             

                                            ATR

                                            • 20. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                              Pbeck1 Level 1

                                              Thanks ATR

                                               

                                              That's the only explanation i can find anywhere on the net.

                                               

                                              Good on you buddy.

                                              • 21. Re: I have a 1920x1080i interlaced project. I have some new clips that MediaInfo says have MBAFF for scan type. Ok to add them?
                                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                                Pbeck1

                                                 

                                                Thanks for the follow ups.

                                                 

                                                Glad you asked. Now my curiosity is really activated trying to be clear on especially what Adobe is really doing with the Interlace Consecutive Frames Field Option. I can see it has an affect on the video, but I am still trying to work out a clearer model of what it is actually doing at the frame level which is reflected in what you actually see on the Timeline in the way of numbers of frames and total duration of the clip.

                                                 

                                                More on that another time.

                                                 

                                                Best wishes

                                                 

                                                ATR