12 Replies Latest reply on Sep 15, 2014 12:44 PM by A.T. Romano

    When are renderd files saved ?

    fredowww66 Level 1

      pe 11

       

      I want to know when PE saves the rendered files (I mean rendering for editing, not the final rendering for export) and when the program doesn't save the rendered files.

      You should expect that PE saves also the rendered files at the moment you save (or/and autosave) but in my project I estimate only 2/10 of the timeline is green after loading the project again. So most rendered preview files are NOT saved in my case ...

       

      So I have to start rendering everytime and this takes than longer and longer before I can start work ...

        • 1. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
          fredowww66 Level 1

          I've noticed now that the render files exists in the scratchfolders. I can play them in WMP. So for some reason they are not loaded/not find when I load my project.

           

          I've chosen already the option delete rendered files of the project.

          But I'm again in the same situation: only a small parts of my project are rendered after loading the project again

          • 2. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
            A.T. Romano Level 7

            fredowww66

             

            Please remind me what version of Premiere Elements that you are using and on what computer operating system it is running. The answer is not necessary going to be critical to the answer for your thread question but it will help if I have to get into any version/computer specifics.

             

            What you are reporting is nothing new and has been discussed many times, involving different versions of Premiere Elements on different computer operating systems.

             

            If you render Timeline content, the program automatically saves preview files after the render is complete to the computer hard drive save location designated in preferences. For SD (Timeline rendered video or stills source), the preview file is a DV AVI file. For HD (Timeline rendered video or stills), the preview file is MPEG2.mpg with a companion .xmp file.

             

            If you have saved/closed a project after you have rendered the Timeline content (evidenced by green line over the contents), it is not uncommon to reopen the project and find the green line (indicator for no need to render) replaced with an orange/red line (indicator for need to render). Why this happens? But, it does. And, the preview files are not lost. They are alive and well in their hard drive save location. The impression is that, for reasons unknown, the project has lost its trace back to those preview files.

             

            What to do....move forward. Either render the whole Timeline again in the reopened project if it is necessary for you to see the best possible preview then and there, render the Timeline content selectively, or just move on.

             

            I have written about this many, many times for several versions. More details to follow if necessary.

             

            Please review and consider.

             

            Thank you.

             

            ATR

            • 3. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
              fredowww66 Level 1

              PE 11 - win 7 home 64b

               

              Nevertheless, I installed my PE11 version a second time (since I read that that is possible) on a different computer (win 7 enterprise 64b).

              I've imported some images, used same project settings (1080i 25fr) etc

               

              Even with these limited amount of images I get the same result: for some pictures the rendered preview is not loaded when you start again the program.

              But they exist always in the preview render map ...

              I've tested with all kinds of imageformats and the conclusion of this in my case is that ONLY .psd files have this problem.

              In my original project most images are .psd because I first adapt them in photoshop (color, background blur, etc and also resize to 72 ppi 1920 pixels) ...

              And you should  expect that importing psd is not a problem because both are adobe ...

               

              I've noticed also that PE doesn't see the preview files in this case even more, the program makes a new preview file !. So every time you render after loading the, project, this crappy software is making another preview file for the same object !?.

               

              So after closing down the program and starting up (and rendering) a few times you end up with a renderpreview folder with several times the same preview files and none of them are used !!!

               

              It should be wise for adobe to have a closer look why imported and rendered psd files are "lost" after closing the program.

              I wanted to contact the support of adobe for this but the contactform just points back to  here ...

              • 4. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                A.T. Romano Level 7

                fredowww66

                 

                Again, the preview files generated when you direct the program to give you the best possible preview are not deleted or damaged in their hard drive save location when you save/close a project with the "rendered look" and then reopen it to find the "unrendered look". There appears to be a disconnect between the project and those "rendered files", be those rendered files DV AVI from a SD project or MPEG2.mpeg from a HD project....either that or there is a problem with the indicator line itself programming.

                 

                Reports of this issue peaked around Premiere Elements 7 and have presented less frequently from then until now. But, it does happen even today with Premiere Elements 11 and 12 without a real explanation for how, when, or where.The problem has never been confined just to the use of .psd files in Premiere Elements. Today, I revisited the issue specifically for Premiere Elements 11 on Windows 7 64 bit some .psd files versus their .jpg counterparts.

                 

                a. When I took 4 .psd files into a project, rendered - orange indicator line to green, saved closed the project and then reopened it, the 4 .psd files presented with orange line over their contents. At the same time, the preview files generated automatically by the rendering process were still alive and well in their hard drive save location.

                 

                b. When I took the same 4 .psd files and converted them to .jpg files, and repeated "a", the 4 .jpg files presented with a green line over their contents immediately before save close and immediately after reopening. But, based on the history of this problem, we cannot be sure that will be the case all the time for all the versions with the different computer operating systems.

                 

                Yes, in this situation, if you want to render the Timeline content for the reopened project, the program will let us and will generate another batch of preview files to add to the existing ones which appear to be disconnected from the reopened project.

                 

                Considerations

                 

                1. Ignore and proceed knowing that you saw the best possible preview before the save close of the project. But, if you edit that re-rendered content, you will get the orange render indicator line anyway and will have to render to get the best possible preview of what you just edited.

                 

                2. If you do not want to render the whole Timeline with its orange line over it, you can render selectively by setting the gray tabs of the Work Area Bar to span just the content to be rendered.

                 

                3. You can render the whole Timeline in the re-opened project.

                 

                Some just in case notations...Rendering is not going to improve the quality of the end product. It is just an opportunity to catch a problem sooner than later. It is particularly indicated for titles, transitions, effects, and non native formats.

                 

                My take on the situation is that you will need to find a way to adjust your workflow according to what is. Based on history and this issue, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

                 

                By the way, if you are preparing your images in Photoshop, do not apply the CMYK color model. Premiere Elements (any version) does not support it.

                 

                ATR

                • 5. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                  fredowww66 Level 1

                  Adobe should solve this bug with prior. It's not normal and it happens so many times with their own format .psd ... One reason more to solve it.

                  But we can not even inform them ... Or do you give this info to their helpdesk ?

                   

                  In the main time rests me nothing else than not use pre-render or small part rendering if it's really necessary.

                  If I make another slideshow next time I will try with tiffs or jpg because with this formats the bug doesn't appear on my systems.

                  • 6. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    fredowww66

                     

                    Thanks for the reply.

                     

                    Adobe does have an "Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form" that you could file.

                    https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                     

                    You wrote

                    Or do you give this info to their helpdesk

                    The answer is no. This is strictly a user to user environment here, with infrequent posts and involvement by IDs with an Adobe Staff tag.

                     

                    The green line saved closed project to orange line re-opened project is a long known problem for all Timeline content. I do not recall

                    prior mention of the issue being specific to one format or another, as in your case of .jpg versus .psd.  Because of the unknowns

                    in the whole issue and in spite of the fact that we both are seeing this jpg vs psd difference in Premiere Elements 12 on our different computers, I wonder how repeatable jpg vs psd is in this matter based on system to system. I will do more testing on this.

                     

                    Please update us on your progress when you get the time.

                     

                    Thanks.

                     

                    ATR

                    • 7. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                      fredowww66 Level 1

                      Thanks for reply.

                      I'll try the bug report form.

                       

                      B.T.W., my version of PE is 11, not 12. Language version Dutch.

                       

                      Resume of my experience: Orange line psd problem with my version appears on 2 systems.

                      I tested with own .psd and .psd from internet.

                      1 win 7 home 64b sp1, 1 win 7 enterprise 64 b sp1. Both up to date for win security updates & screen driver.

                       

                      Just a guess, but maybe the .xmp files are incorrect and is that the reason why PE doesn't see the render files ... ?

                      • 8. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                        fredowww66

                         

                        Thanks for the update.

                         

                        I am not suspecting the .xmp files here since...same result with or without .xmp in the video previews equation. I did the following mini tests with Premiere Elements 11 and 12 on Windows 7 64 bit. Same results.

                         

                        If I take 3 photos and save as jpg and psd files, bring them along with a H.264.mov file into a SD (4:3 or 16:9) project, render to green line over content, save close project, then, when I reopen the project, the 3 jpgs and the H.264 movie present with the green line over the content, but the 3 .psds present now with an orange line over their content. For SD project, rendering does not create a .xmp companion file. Here only preview files as DV AVI 720 x 480 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second.

                         

                        Now if I do the same thing, but take the 3 jpgs and 3 psds along with the H.264.mov file into a HD project, I get the same result as with the SD project, that is, in the re-opened project, green line over the jpgs and the H.264.mov file and orange line over the .psds. (Reminder - here the preview file is for each a MPEG2.mpeg 960 x 540 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second which is accompanied by a .xmp file.

                         

                        While you are observing this jpg psd difference in your workflow, what are you seeing for your Timeline video in this regard?

                         

                        ATR

                        • 9. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                          fredowww66 Level 1

                          I've also noticed now that PE really try's to load the rendered preview files, also the psd.

                          If you put a psd picture at the end of your timeline than this objected is readit at last when you start up the program again.

                          And for this last loaded object you can see the filepath in the lower leftcorner. This seems to be the correct path.

                          So something goes wrong but only after loading the rendered psd file.

                          • 10. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                            fredowww66

                             

                            Thanks for the additional observation on the issue of the.psd file and Premiere Elements Timeline rendering.

                             

                            I will take a look at what you just reported.

                             

                            More later.

                             

                            ATR

                            • 11. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                              fredowww66 Level 1

                              I've noticed also that the same wrong thing happens with footage where you use the "stabilize" function. After rendering for viewing the part is green and preview is normal. Closing program and loading again the project: part is orange again.

                              Very annoying because not rendered parts of stabilized footage malfunction in preview ...

                              • 12. Re: When are renderd files saved ?
                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                fredowww66

                                 

                                Thanks for the new information about the render line indicator over a stabilized video clip is not maintained after a project's saved/closed/reopened.

                                 

                                Are still working with Premiere Elements 11?

                                 

                                You wrote

                                Closing program and loading again the project: part is orange again.

                                But, at project reopening,  what about the playback of that stabilized video (with orange line over it) in the Edit area monitor? Is the video stabilizer effect now also gone in the preview of the rendered/saved/closed/reopened project?

                                 

                                To reply to your report today, I have looked at this with a Premiere Elements 11 Timeline consisting of two jpg files, two Photoshop Elements 11 .psd files, and 1 .wmv video with and without stabilizer effect applied. The only consistent finding was that the two jpg files retained the green line over them before and after project save close. Most of the time one or two of the two .psd files and the stabilized video presented with the orange line after the project was saved closed reopened. I would have to do a lot of repeats on this in order to describe the behavior with any certainty. The variation in the results made that difficult. I saw the same trend in version 12.

                                 

                                More on this later.

                                 

                                Thanks for the follow up.

                                 

                                ATR