11 Replies Latest reply on Jun 22, 2014 11:57 AM by ssprengel

    Bridge displays color images as b&w

    RandyS907 Level 1

      I assume this has something to do with settings in Bridge CS4, my platform is MacBook Pro OS 6.8.10.

      This question might confuse some people. To beging with, I do shoot my images in RAW files, I even have Bridge convert them to DNG files.

      Upon download the images are displayed in color as they should be for RAW files. After editing images in Camera RAW,  I convert most all images to sRGB. When some of those edited images come back to Bridge, they might be presented in B&W, though no color is lost to the file upon displaying in Photoshop, and I did not edit the file to be a B&W image. I have DNG, Canon RAW, Tif and Jpeg files, and most of these are displayed in color, but some are not, and I have not figured out the missing link just yet. So to be clear, I have Jpeg color images, displaying as b&w images, but they are color images. Only b&w images should be displayed as b&w.

       

      This problems started once I learned I could edit one image in photoshop out of a series of images, then after editing, i could bring the single photo file back to bridge, and then copy/paste image settings onto a groups of images in Bridge, and all those images would then have the same adjustments made to them as a batch edit adjustment.

       

      But now sometimes I get a B&W display on some images even when I do not apply a Bridge settings edits, and when I never edited the image for a B&W display.  I has to a setting somewhere in Bridge, and I just have not figured it out yet.

       

      Thanks in advance for all suggestions:

        • 1. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
          Yammer Level 4

          The biggest difference between a plain JPEG and a JPEG shown in Bridge is when XMP settings are added to the file. A normal image browser will ignore the XMP settings, and Bridge will apply them in the preview. So my first guess is that you have mono settings from Camera Raw applied to the JPEG. Is there a tiny 'settings' mark on the thumbnail?

          settings.png

          • 2. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
            RandyS907 Level 1

            Thanks for your reply.

            I have been poking around a bit more and still not solved how I get this XMP setting applied to "Save for Web" files only. Of course, in Camera RAW I do have a few presets that I can apply to an image and get a nice Sepia Toning or some other self made preset, but that is not what is happing here.

             

            After the image opens in CS 4, and perhaps saved in .PSD file format, I can do a "Save As" set to Jpeg and I get a Thumbnail of the jpeg file that is in the color settings I edited the image in. Now taking that same .PSD, or .Tiff, or even .Jpeg image, if I do a "Save For Web" type of jpeg from those, I get the B&W thumbnail shown in Bridge, but the saved file presentation is still in the saved color settings that I edited images to. So Bridge is not making a distinction of this being a Jpeg file, but as being a "Save for Web" file who's Thumb Nail display  presentation should be shown as Mono (B&W), in Bridge.    Thanks again!

            • 3. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Yammer asked a pertinent question that remains unanswered—is that “settings” badge (small lines-triangles-in-a-circle) shown on the B/W image thumbnails (at least).  If you’re not sure, then include a screenshot of a few Bridge thumbnails where some are color and some are B/W, using the little camera icon on the web version of the forum messages.

               

              Another similar question would be if you see a B/W thumbnail in Bridge, try doing a right-click (or whatever the Mac equivalent is) and choose Open in Camera Raw.  Is the image in B/W or color in Camera Raw.

               

              Can you upload three versions of one of the images that display as B/W:  the original PSD/raw/TIF file, a normal Save As JPG that is in color, and a Save For Web JPG that is B/W?  Use something like http://www.dropbox.com/ and post a public download link to the images, here.

               

              When you Save As JPG or For Web, are you ever overwriting the original image with a new one or do you always save the PS-edited image with a new name?

               

              A theory about what is happening is that Bridge uses Camera Raw to generate its thumbnails, and the images that are B/W have some embedded Camera Raw setting, perhaps pasted from a different filetype, that makes CR think the image should be rendered as B/W, but when you open the images on Photoshop, you are opening them directly, without using the Camera Raw plug-in, so any embedded settings are ignored, and the image displays in its original state without the settings having been applied.  I don't know in what CS version it started, but nowadays there is a setting as to whether to use CR to open images that do have embedded settings even if they are not raw (JPG and TIF, for example), or to always open them in CR or never open them in CR even if they have settings.  The latter option, never, would be in effect if this theory describes your situation, or perhaps if CS4 is too old to have this setting in the first place.

               

              Things could get confusing if you save over the top of the original image with a new one from Photoshop.  This should remove any embedded settings, so the image would render in Bridge as color again, assuming it was in color when you saved from Photoshop, but perhaps, and especially when saved for web with PS because the image is small and saves so quickly, Bridge is either missing the fact it needs to recomputed a new thumbnail or is somehow reapplying the settings, and the image shows as B/W in Bridge, again.

              • 4. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                RandyS907 Level 1

                ssprengel wrote:

                 

                Yammer asked a pertinent question that remains unanswered—is that “settings” badge (small lines-triangles-in-a-circle) shown on the B/W image thumbnails (at least).  If you’re not sure, then include a screenshot of a few Bridge thumbnails where some are color and some are B/W, using the little camera icon on the web version of the forum messages.

                 

                And the answer is NO!. I only have those showing up associated with the .DNG files (Camera RAW)

                 

                 

                Another similar question would be if you see a B/W thumbnail in Bridge, try doing a right-click (or whatever the Mac equivalent is) and choose Open in Camera Raw.  Is the image in B/W or color in Camera Raw.

                 

                A <Control Click> (on MAC), opens the .jpeg file in b&w, as shown in the thumbnail.

                 

                 

                Can you upload three versions of one of the images that display as B/W:  the original PSD/raw/TIF file, a normal Save As JPG that is in color, and a Save For Web JPG that is B/W?  Use something like http://www.dropbox.com/ and post a public download link to the images, here.

                 

                 

                NO, I thought I explained that real well. Only the .jpeg file that was saved through the "Save for Web" processing ( that is, the a jpeg the goes through greater compression to reduce image file size for web display), is the image file process that produces the b&w thumbnail in Bridge ONLY. All opened images, of various file formats (ie: DNG, Psd, Tif, Jpeg, & Jpeg for Web), all present Color presentations (for editing in Photoshop, and or in display browsers). It is only the thumbnail of that particular jpeg formatting processing for Web Images that produces the b&w image "THUMBNAIL" in Bridge.

                 

                 

                When you Save As JPG or For Web, are you ever overwriting the original image with a new one or do you always save the PS-edited image with a new name?

                 

                No, never. I leave my RAW files, as RAW originals, and work on newly names images files.

                 

                A theory about what is happening is that Bridge uses Camera Raw to generate its thumbnails, and the images that are B/W have some embedded Camera Raw setting, perhaps pasted from a different filetype, that makes CR think the image should be rendered as B/W, but when you open the images on Photoshop, you are opening them directly, without using the Camera Raw plug-in, so any embedded settings are ignored, and the image displays in its original state without the settings having been applied.

                It makes since, (what you are saying), and it certainly does respond in that fashion. Your suggestion to open Ctrl Click, or Right Click to open the thumbnail in Camera RAW, was an interesting test, and the response was to open the previously save color image with a b&w thumbnail, into Camera RAW as a b&w image. So Camera RAW is responding to what is in the xmp settings that describes this images thumbnail to be displayed b&w. It is weird that a browser does not.

                 

                As to what is in the window selections for the "Save for Web" editing windows, Presets for jpeg are :

                1. Progressive
                2. Optimize
                3. Embed Color Profile

                And I use Embed Color Profile.

                Even the Preview button at the bottom of the window, shows the color image as displaying color.


                I vaguely remember about a year ago doing some CS 4 Photoshop and Bridge web tutorials from an unnamed tutoring website and guy named D_k_ . It is his fault. Just kidding, I actually enjoy those tutorial.


                **** Okay, this is perhaps originating from Camera RAW presets, where you can apply previously made settings to other images and then saved them as Presets. Though I don't have this checked in Camera RAW ( still something goofy is going on there), I did find that in Bridge I can reset the individual "saved for Web" image thumbnail back to the the color image by :

                1. Right Click  (Ctrl Click, MAC) on the thumbnail
                2. menu down to the "Development Settings" and select :
                3. "Previous Conversion", and this presents the color thumbnail.

                 

                I have now tested all the Camera RAW settings in Camera RAW, by opening an image in each one of these :

                • Image Settings
                • Camera RAW Defaults
                • Previous Conversion
                • Custom Settings

                and then reducing image file size, and saving for the web, while changing file name, and each and every one of these Settings produces a Sepia Toned thumbnail. I found out the images were a subtle Sepia Toned image by enlarging the Bridge Thumbnails bigger for a better view. So I can correct the thumbnail after it has been created, but so far, I can't get the thumbnail to be correct on first creation of the web saved jpeg image file. Regular jpeg image file thumbnails save correctly.

                • 5. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Yes, you can't save over the top of a raw file with another raw file, but if some of your images aren't raw, like PSDs or TIFs or JPGs, you could paste settings into them, and then save over the top of them.

                   

                  You did explain what happens really well, I just wanted to examine the images, myself, to look for settings inside the files using some utilities, and try them in a newer version of PS and ACR, to see if they act the same as they do in your CS4. 

                   

                  The one part of my theory of what happens that doesn't quite make sense is how the Save for Web one gets to be B/W, since I'd expect any embedded settings to be erased, and it is a mystery to me how they get put back.  Do any of the JPG files have XMP sidecar files next to them?  That would explain how settings could get applied to a file even though the image pixels have been replaced.

                   

                  I am also at a disadvantage because it has been years since I've used CS4 and I don't really remember how it might be different than the newer PS versions regarding CR processing and embedding settings in the non-raw files.

                  • 6. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                    RandyS907 Level 1

                    Well, I installed DropBox, kind of creepy, not sure I trust it.

                    I have a bit to learn about it yet.

                     

                    Here is a selection of files of the same image, saved in the various image file formats starting from Canon's CR2 RAW file, then converted to DNG, and then reduced image file sizes from psd. on down to the Saved for Web jpeg file.

                     

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hmsnycq83i35vx/IMG_1537%20copy%20copy.CR2

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9qigolgbvydrrw8/IMG_1537%20copy_0096.dng

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9z8i99i67pk7st/coin_1537_0096.psd

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hgwnnz1hevzkru/coin_1537_0096.tif

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zk6xpk5oftjj3i5/coin_1537_0096.jpg

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpnwgyzgx5r2drk/coin_Webfile1537_0096.jpg

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9eartmqor1ho6ap/IMG_1537%20copy%20copy.xmp

                     

                    Thanks for looking at this.

                    • 7. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Regarding alleged creepiness in sharing images on a forum using Dropbox.  These links to your images will be in the forum message forever, but you can delete the files from dropbox (or your local computer folder that syncs to dropbox) and they will no longer be accessible via the links.  Once you delete them they'll still be in the trash over at DropBox, so you'll want to make deleted files visible and delete them, again, via the Dropbox website.

                      --

                      What I see for each of these files are color renderings in both the OS and in Bridge CC, so none have B/W settings on my computer.  Furthermore, the only two files that show the "settings" badge are the DNG and the CR2 that has a corresponding XMP file.

                       

                      What you do see on your side for each of these files?  Can you post a screenshot of Bridge looking at a folder with these 7 files which include one XMP?

                       

                      Here is what I see in Windows Explorer before opening Bridge:

                      2014-06-20_211814.png

                      Here is the Bridge CC view after high-quality thumbnails had been rendered, which uses Camera Raw to interpret any settings in the files, and as expected, the CR2 and DNG look brighter:

                      2014-06-20_211952.png

                       

                      A little more investigation shows that the JPG/PSD/GIF are all from the DNG because all show the same settings.  The JPG/PSD/TIF contain only an historical record of the settings used with the DNG that they were created from, not settings that have been added by opening them in Camera Raw and more adjustments being made:

                      2014-06-20_220813.png

                       

                      Here is the CR2 that has somewhat different settings:

                      2014-06-20_220934.png

                       

                      Finally the website version of the JPG contains no Camera Raw settings, either historical or applied to the image pixels, so it is impossible to tell which image was Save For Webbed to create it:

                      2014-06-20_221104.png

                       

                      The bottom line is that for these example files that came from DropBox, everything appears normal.  All are in color both in the OS and in Bridge, and none of the non-raw files have any embedded settings that Bridge would be using to reinterpret their look with.

                       

                      Do you see something different for these than I do?  You might try copying these exact 7 files to a new folder using Windows Explorer with Bridge closed and then open that folder in Bridge and see if you see anything different than I do, assuming you haven't modified the files since uploading to DropBox.

                      • 8. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                        RandyS907 Level 1

                        Well I brought the images into the web browsers that I have, which are Firefox, and Safari. Internet Explorer is not made for MAC since perhaps 2005, and so is not up dated with proper security updates.

                         

                        The browsers listed present the Web Image as a color image when opened (performed with Bridge closed).

                         

                        I opened the Standard Jpeg file into Photoshop and for interest sake I saved a new image as Monochrome, so I could compare the two image's Thumbnails that are in question (Monochrome jpeg & "Saved for Web" jpeg), to see if there was a observable difference, and clearly what is taking place in Bridge, is a Saving of a Thumbnail in Sepia Toned, of the "Save for Web" jpeg image. All other save image file formats, images and thunbnails are not effected.

                         

                        I made a Screen Shot of the thumbnails displayed in Bridge CS 4. I also check to see how Bridge was saving my Thumbnails as in Settings, the instructions are set as  "Allways High Quality".

                         

                        I haven't found any options to in Bridge to manage Thumbnails differently based on file type, but this seems to be what is happening here.

                         

                        I wonder if that creative button, at the bottom of the Colections Window (ie: New Smart Collections) has something to do with this.

                         

                        Dropbox - Screenshot 2014-06-21 12.59.13.png

                        • 9. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          For anyone following along, here is your screenshot, above:

                          Screenshot 2014-06-21 12.59.13.png

                          So the sepia image coin_Webfile1537_0096.jpg that you have highlighted is the same as the one that displays ok as colored on my side, right?

                           

                          It is not Bridge that has settings per file type, but Camera Raw has separate default settings that you can save for each camera model/file-format and maybe jpgs without any camera model can also have defaults.

                           

                          My suspicion is that your camera raw defaults for JPGs that have no camera model are set to sepia toning instead of all zeroed like they should be, so you need to reset the camera-raw defaults for that JPG to normal values for JPGs, which is zeros for everything.

                           

                          I believe the way to do that is right-click on your sepia-JPG and choose Open in Camera Raw, then click the little menu arrow at the right of the tab title area--you've been in this area, before, then make sure the Camera Raw Defaults line has the checkmark, and see that the image is still sepia, then click the Reset Camera Raw Defaults down at the bottom, and I expect the image will snap back to color, and any new Save For Web JPGs will be ok.  For any old ones, you may need to rebuild the thumbnails for the folder they are in, or maybe even open and click Alt-Reset (or whatever the Mac equivalent is for the PC's Alt key).

                          2014-06-21_235902.png

                          • 10. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                            RandyS907 Level 1

                            Well Thank You SSprengel, for sticking in there with me. To no surprise to yourself, you were correct . But again, the real feather in your cap is the graciousness you imparted to see me through this.

                             

                             

                            To my way of thinking, the drop down menu window on the right, found in Camera RAW for applying settings to image files, the selection that allows me to choose "Camera RAW Defaults", should have been enough to solve the problem. The extra selection at the bottom of the window to "Reset Camera RAW Defaults" escaped my attention for seeming a bit redundant. But the upper Camera RAW Default if for adjusting only the file that is open, while the bottom option effects all future Camera RAW Defaults to open in Camera RAW. My latest adjustment bares this out.

                             

                             

                            I made sure I selected both settings again.

                            I then opened the standard Jpeg image file, and from that made a "Save for Web" Jpeg image file, and the thumbnail for that new Jpeg displays in color, revealing "Camera RAW Defaults" for the thumbnail.

                             

                            Note, jpeg images highlighted in this screen shot, shows the old Save for Web image is now in color and the new Save for Web image that was just made, is also in color. So my Bridge is back to normal now,.... or I am. Thanks again, I learned something.

                             

                            Dropbox - Screenshot 2014-06-22 10.05.10.png

                            • 11. Re: Bridge displays color images as b&w
                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              The way you got into this situation is at some point you had applied a sepia treatment to a JPG without any settings, and somehow did a Save New Camera Raw Defaults from that menu at the side.