I'd just come to here to bring up the same point.
Why is it that you are forcing us to go through Media Encoder just to create an MP4?
I do not need a super high quality version to show a work-in-progress to a client. Going through ME is slower and buggier. I often find that after updating a comp in AE and duplicating the output in ME, ME renders out the comp without the updates in. This is not a good workflow. Please reconsider at least giving us the option of outputting directly out of AE.
If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.
Just noticed the same. My guess is they gave us a transition period with CC that still had the formats added if you dug to get to the preference checkbox, and now for CC 2014 they completely ripped it away from us and we have to use AME instead. I also avoided using AME because it seemed to take longer, would crash sometimes, etc. Overall it just seemed like an unnecessary hassle when I was perfectly happy with the results I was getting straight out of AE.
Edit: Confirmed via bottom of this page :
removal of H.264, MPEG-2, WMV, FLV, F4V, and SWF exporters from After Effects
To export to final delivery formats such as MPEG-2, H.264, and WMV, use Adobe Media Encoder. You can either add compositions directly to the Adobe Media Encoder encoding queue (Composition > Add To Adobe Media Encoder Queue) or render and export a lossless master file directly from After Effects that Adobe Media Encoder picks up from a watch folder to encode to various final delivery formats.
The SWF, FLV, and F4V exporters were removed because the recommended workflow for creating movies that play in Flash Player is to create an H.264 video using Adobe Media Encoder and then use Flash Professional to link or embed that video in a SWF container"
Ok that's all I needed to know thanks alot.
I spend most days constantly exporting .mp4 files in just a couple of minutes or so and sending them by email to clients for approval. I rarely have any problems with this method.
In AE CC 2014 I can no longer do this and have to use AME.
How is it progress when the 'recommended workflow' with AME takes more than twice as long as exporting from AE using a deprecated format ?
Exactly. It takes twice as long and is flaky. Now you can no longer just duplicate a render queue item but instead have export the comp to AME AGAIN and then select the correct file path AGAIN as AME always defaults to the folder the AE project is located in. This a huge step backwards, I have no idea what Adobe were thinking when they decided this was a good idea.
The problem is the decisions are being made by those whose job it is to just design the software, not actually use it on a daily basis. Hello ? Is there anybody from Adobe who can shed light on this matter ?
Even though it's a year old, I think this thread from CreativeCow sheds some light, specifically Todd Kopriva's post 4 down. Makes sense I suppose, I'll just have to adapt.
Todd Kopriva wrote:
There have been many problems with the H.264 and MPEG-2 exporters in After Effects. The exporters in Adobe Media Encoder (AME) didn't have these problems, and the team that works on AME is continuing to improve these exporters.
If you want the After Effects team to concentrate on things that we're good at (animation and image processing technology), then you should want us to not spend a lot of time on codecs, leaving that instead to the people expert in that area.
Before you ask: No, it is not a simple matter of just dropping the AME code into After Effects. That said, we think that the best long-term solution is to have After Effects call Adobe Media Encoder to do the encoding work when you add things to the render queue.
Thanks for shedding some light on the situation. However, I have exported thousands of h.264/MP4s out of AE with no issue. It has worked for years and is absolutely fine. Unless they speed up the workflow to AME then they should give us the option to leave them in like in the previous version.
Thanks for the cut and paste from another forum. Already seen this useless response before I went looking further. The thing is WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ADAPT. We are the customers who pay for this software and it being software, as opposed to hardware, this kind of thing CAN be easily changed. When it has an adverse effect on productivity of those who use the software, then it SHOULD be changed. Adobe ?
I would respond to Mr. Kopriva that I expect your team to be expert at all things AE is capable of. Period. I would also respond, if you're so bad at codecs then why do you render at all. Don't just cut some codecs and cry ignorance. I require you to be better than that. I PAY for you to be better than that.
I have no new info to add, but wanted to make sure another voice is heard on this issue. I don't need another application open, taking up system resources and I don't need to use an app that take WAY LONGER to dump out an mp4. I don't need that. I don't.
This is now added to a long list of, what are you thinking Adobe?! Your illustrator/AE import sucks. And software design is more and more being done in IA and not in PS. But what do I know? I just work for one of the largest software developers on the planet. And the products I build motion for are only used by BILLIONS of people.
Fix this please.
Interesting that all the Adobe staff are keeping well clear of this one even though it is the currently the most liked topic on this forum.
Can anyone from Adobe give us further comment on why it is you are so keen on messing up our workflows?
I also tried to voice up my voice on this (After Effects CC 2014 - removal of H.264, MPEG-2, WMV, FLV, F4V, and SWF exporters - WHY !?)
NOT being able to render out to FLV from AE CC 2014 at all, provides NO reason of updating...
There is NO format left to be used to EMBED video INTO FLASH!!!!
If one updates to new version, demanding of still keeping the old one is simply REDICULOUS!!!
WHY on earth this was decided? WHAT weird mind thought of this !!?!?
That is REDICULOUS!!
Should we expect or should we abandon the whole idea of updating to CC 2014 at all!?!?
An official response to this would be REALLY appreciated.
Adobe: Please do not revert this workflow. The programming reasons are sound, the workflow from AE to AME is both efficient and proper for my business and my clients; I only need compressed clips for approvals and demos. I can do that easily and quickly using AME.
Concentrate on the stuff in AE that improves how my effects are edited and designed.
Glad to hear it doesn't affect your workflow, and you apparently don't care in the slightest how it affects someone who may have a different needs.
Rendering low-resolution previews for me is taking 5 mins in After Effects and 28 mins in AME. Could you take a minute to explain how you're getting those "quick" renders out of AME?
Exactly, do enlighten us…
If this change presents no problem for you, then what are you even doing on this thread ? Brown-noseing Adobe ? Or just trying to annoy the people who actually have a valid complaint ? Because if there are professionals who are actually take the time to complain, its because they are actually encountering problems, not because they're making them up.
Adding multiple steps to the rendering process completely contradicts the new smooth workflow Adobe seems so proud of. SMH
All of my exports are coming up darker using AME. Never had this problem rendering out of After Effects. Has anyone experimented with the AME H.264 presets?
> All of my exports are coming up darker using AME. Never had this problem rendering out of After Effects.
Use the first option specified here, the one with the lossless master and the watch folder:
Same Problem… All my exports are significantly darker. So now I have to STILL tie up AE to export a lossless master then re-render in Encoder. Twice the work… Twice the time...
You guys are really screwing a lot of professionals over. PUT BACK THE DEPRECATED FORMAT OPTION!~!!!!
I did a few comparison tests. A 6 second piece with some layers and effects. Ran it through CC and CC 2014. AE & Encoder. Here are the results.
ADOBE • Export Comparisons
6 Second Timeline – 1080p – 29.97
Encoder CC2014 - H.264 - VBR 2 Pass 8/20 – 16 Min render -
Much Darker than AE - Enormous compression artifacting - Looks like crap. 4 mb file size
After Effects CC2014 - H.264 Quicktime 100% - 4 minutes –
Color is OK - Much compression artifacting - 88mbs!!!
***After Effects - CC - Using Main Concept Deprecated H.264 Format – 6 mins - VBR 2 Pass 6/12 –
Color EXACTLY what I see in After Effects – Barely noticable compression – 4.5 mbs
Encoder CC2014 - H.264 – Apple iPad – VBR 2 – 5/6 - 29.5 Min render -
Much Darker than AE – Marginally better compression artifacting then first Encoder Test - Looks like crap. 6 mb file size
ADOBE RECOMMENDED APPROACH:
AE CC 2014 Render – Losseless Quicktime – 4.75 minute Render – Looks Perfect. 740mb
ENCODER CC 2014 RENDER – .5 minute render - H.264 – VBR 2 Pass 8/12 –
Color is spot on – Compression artifacting is still significant. 6 MB file
ENCODER CC 2014 RENDER v2 – .5 minute render - H.264 – VBR 2 Pass 12/20 –
Color is spot on – Compression artifacting is Much better but still not as good as CC Deprecated Main Concept. 10 MB file. Can’t send via e-mail.
BOTTOM LINE RESULTS
Main Concept Deprecated H.264 creates a much higher quality H.264 in less time and a smaller file format that can be sent by email to clients.
Directly rendering H.264 thru Encoder is useless. Color and contrast shift is enormous. Compression is horrible. File sizes are much larger.
ADOBE WORKAROUND - Add an extra minute or two to jump through the hoops of having to render out a Losseless through AE, bring that into Encoder…. Takes a minute or so longer on a 6 sec piece. Longer pieces will be exponentially longer render times.
Final image quality still isn’t as good as the CC Deprecated H.264 even at high VBR. Plus the files are larger.
With all due respect… Please put Main Concept format back into AE. It is a real pain to have do the extra workaround for a lesser quality output. And it just doesn't make sense.
Excuse me to say again...
H.264 may be made through Media Encoder BUT
1) It may NOT be embeded to flash (ONLY flv format is embedable at all in flash!!!!)
2) Does NOT provide ANY kind of transparency!!
WHO decided to brake the workflow THAT BAD is NOT UNDERSTANDABLE at all!!!
Wish this will be addressed somehow, so that it would really make upgrading to CC 2014 meaningfull at all!!
1 person found this helpful
Hello I donno if anyone cares, but at this point most of the comments about this are basically people saying how bad the software is... but I didn't come here to start a topic about crap like that my question was answered a few days ago, but I just marked your answer as correct you can just delete this topic or lock it or whatever if you think it's a big bother to have comments and not answers to the main topic thanks alot.
The fact that a so-called Adobe expert took the time to mark the previous comment as "helpful" while at no point addressing the real concerns expressed by the many professionals on this thread, shows that this is the wrong place to come if you're looking for real help. Shame on you !
Hey Todd, I can't help but respond to Adobe's "explanation" as to why this change was made. And I quote,
"The reason that we removed the H.264, MPEG-2, and WMV exporters from the After Effects render queue is simple: Maintaining these exporters in After Effects took quite a lot of work, and fixing several significant bugs in these exporters would take even more work." Wow, you literally, before any other reason(s) use a, "this is just too much work" excuse. That's sad. Just saying.
"We could have done this work, but it would have subtracted a lot from the resources that we had available to develop other features and fix other bugs." FYI, features that a good percentage of your user base doesn't use and/or need. You must know this. Some nice new video production features for sure, but I make software, as do A LOT of us and we'd prefer you spent time keeping the software we have running vs. cutting perfectly good features for sake of features we won't use.
"Since Adobe Media Encoder already had superior H.264, MPEG-2, and WMV exporting capabilities, it was more prudent to rely on Adobe Media Encoder for export of these formats." I think Takasaurus documented the truth of this matter above. And nicely done. If by "superior" you mean slower. You're right. However, I question your use of the word "superior."
"This allowed the After Effects team to focus our efforts on animation, motion graphics, compositing, and digital imaging features—our core areas." OK, focus up, but then why do you render at all? If you don't have the resources to maintain deprecated formats, why would I trust you with a full res render? Those must be super easy to maintain, right?
My dad used to say, "Your excuses are your own. You should probably keep them to yourself because the rest of us are getting things done."
I don't anyone here is saying how bad the software is. We all love After Effects. It is by far the best piece of software on the market for motion graphics. Some of the new updates are great and I'm so happy with the improvements made to mulitproccessing - still not 100% reliable but much better than previous versions. Our gripe is that a heavily used feature that has been in place for years has been stripped away and the alternative is not as favourable.
Media Encoder is great, I use it all the time and I always use it when doing final deliveries. I have absolutely no issue with the quality that comes out of it. My issue is with the smoothness of the workflow when it comes to firing out works-in-progress of multiple versions.
1) Having a 12-core processor and only being able to use one of them feels like a kick in the teeth.
2) I either have to have AME running in the background taking up resources or wait for what seems a completely ridiculous amount of time for it to boot up. Right now it seems to hang whilst loading various exporters (same on Premiere boot up). In fact, while I was writing this it just crashed on boot up (twice), it can't seem to get past ExporterAVI so looks like I'm going to need a restart.
3) If I amend a comp no longer do I just have to select the output module, ctrl+shift+D and hit render. I have to export the comp again to AME (more waiting) as duplicating the AME output will render from an old version. Then I have to direct it to export to the correct place as it always defaults to the AE project folder and make sure it overwrites the last version if I'm not doing incremental versions. If there was an option for AME to export to the last place it exported to and to overwrite any files in there with the same name rather than putting _1 after everything this would sort out a few gripes. Unfortunately it doesn't, so when I have made small amends to 5 or 6 comps for example I've probably now got another 50 or so clicks more than I had in older versions of AE to get things rendered out.
All of the above means that time gets added onto my workflow.
Watch folders do not cut it for me. I don't need large copies of works-in-progress on my drives and also having the indignity of rendering/encoding things twice.
Just tried exporting a comp to AME. AME crashed on boot up taking AE with it. Now I have restart my machine. Simply not good enough.
What all others have said. Please give us our workflow back, this clunky export to AME is a royal pain. It has locked up my computer once, not opened AME another time and on several tries has opened AME but then the comp I chose to Export out to AME didn't show up in AME's queue.
I'm also a little upset that you admit that AME, which you want us to use, has issues. You have to give us an even clunkier work around for your product producing darker end video.
When our workflow becomes longer with a new version of AE, this is the same as making AE slower in our eyes. The number one request is to make AE faster, so everyone that used deprecated settings is not a happy camper.
Adobe has a good idea of how many people actually use that work flow, hence their decision of supply and demand.
I used deprecated settings every week for a specific job I do, so you know what camp I'm in. The squeaky wheel gets the oil is true. This action can only be overturned by more people letting Adobe know our needs. They are betting that it does not matter to enough people, which I'm afraid they may be right. Who wants to spend the time for this cause? I can re-render a whole lot of files in AME while this battle goes on.
So for AE CC 2015 my request is for a faster version of AE for all situations!! This oil can is dry.....
For one of our many media production workflows, we typically export to FLV from AE and PR, then embed the FLV into a flash timeline and export as SWF when making video for some hardware. The SWF runs on a proprietary piece of hardware and codecs for WinXP Embedded (outdoor payment kiosk, about 1200 in the field) and our entire production workflow is now broken. We've used this process for years now.
Now, my team and I are forced to log issue requirements to OUR R&D team to move away from FLV/SWF and towards a different file format because YOU arbitrarily decided that it was time to retire this format. You're taking time away from our company developing features for our customers, and instead we've got to code around your decisions. Will you pay for our R&D? To whom at Adobe should I send the invoice? Or, would you rather pay for upgrading our customers to all Win7 embedded, and all the hardware costs involved in that? Who should I talk to at Adobe about this? You're costing us time and money.
You're forcing us to use old versions of AE to produce media for FLV, instead of simply including the older codecs with the release. There isnt any R&D cost in maintaining old codecs, that line above is total BS. You could have kept them exactly the same when you compiled the new EXE's, instead you chose to remove them because you wanted to push the market in one way or another. The market should decide how it wants to work, it shouldnt be arbitrarily decided by some suit at Adobe, or some meeting of suits.
What harm could LEAVING THE CODECS IN do to your product? I'll tell you - None. There is simply no cost at leaving in your proprietary codec in the software. It's yours, you dont have to pay licensing or royalties. What possible justification could you have?
I've said this before and i'll say it again, it's too bad there isnt much competition today for this software market. If there was a comparable suite of products, i'd make the switch. I'm quite tired of heavy handed Adobe making sweeping changes and then forcing us to use outdated versions to continue workflows, instead of making it easier for makers of media to do their jobs. Now you're forcing us to take up more HD space keeping all these old legacy applications installed. Bad business, Adobe. Bad business.
I'm so disappointed with this change.
I not even talking about the need to import all the presets and preferences manually because 2014 version is a separated install. I did all that and spent hours making the new version work like the old one I'm used to.
After doing all this, I made a video and found there is no way to save a WMV format from After Effects.
I read about the solutions here but all of them makes me work harder.
It just makes me do more steps in order to get the result I need.
I make a lot of different unconventional sizes of videos for different LED Screens, therefor I can't use the watch folder option since it saves the file with the frame size saved in the preset.
With After Effects render I only have to have one preset and the video will be saved according to the composition frame size. With Media Encoder I must make a preset for each frame size I want and then make a watch folder for each preset.
And if I just export the composition to Media Encoder and drop the one preset that I have on the comp name I always have to change the "Source Scaling" option to "Change Output to Match Source Size". also - too many steps!
another thing is that when I had a revision I could always duplicate the last render on after effects and it would automatically save the file with the same name and the same location as the other one. With Media Encoder I just can't do it!
~~ it's important for me to say - After trying to contain the changes I decided to go back to CC Version and leave the 2014 aside until you will add this render option back. It's really a downgrade for me and for everyone in my office ~~
Me and other motion designers on my team have also uninstalled AE 2014. I continue to evangelize this mistake on Adobe's part to all motion designers on campus. The response has been TOTALLY UNANIMOUS, we hate this change and wish Adobe would fix what they broke.
I'll add my voice to the chorus. Please, Adobe, put MP4 export capability back into AE.
Would just like to add that the removal of h264 export means that I will not be able to use After Effects CC 2014 in my workflow.
I'm rendering h.264 every day and I use CC 2014, I just render with the AME because, first, I can save my AE project, send it to the AME, then keep working on the next project or scene while AME is churning out the render (read that as no lost productivity waiting for a render), and second, if the project will benefit from features not supported by AME such as MP rendering (only about 5% of my work currently) or the project must be delivered in multiple formats I render a DI (digital intermediate) for archival purposes and use AME to render the deliverables while I work on something else, or third, if the project is using Dynamic link or is longer than a couple of shots I edit the final in Premiere Pro instead of trying to build a movie in AE, which is about the worst NLE anyone ever used, and PPro uses AME to render all of it's output. Adobe didn't cripple h.264 rendering, they actually made it better (compare results using CC by overlaying renders at the same compression settings exactly and using the difference mode). All you have to do is learn to streamline your workflow to make your production more efficient. I don't know about you but my clients stopped paying my full rate for rendering a very long time ago. Most of my clients pay by the job and not hourly anyway. I'd rather be making $$ for every hour I spend not with my family than sit on my butt drinking coffee while waiting for a render. Just my 2¢. . .
Do you mind sharing your render settings for both After Effects render queue and Adobe Media Encoder render queue? In my experience, AME takes a significantly longer time to render h264 than the built in rendering, and as @Takasaurus pointed out, render quality may not be on par either.
1. Make sure you allocate enough memory to AME (other apps).
2. I have run side by side tests with AME and Render Cue in CC by setting the data rate to 20 and matching the settings. Take both renders into AE and put one on top of the other, then set the blend mode to difference. You'll immediately see that AME, especially CC14 does a better job than the Render Cue ever did, especially if you turn on Multi Pass Rendering.
I just use the YouTube and Vimeo defaults then jack up the data rate to the max recommended by both services. Simple as that. Even the factory defaults give great results.
The render times don't matter that much to me because I'm always working on something else while I'm rendering. I've been at this long enough that I know what I'm going to get before I render. I haven't been surprised by a render in several years. To me it is just like shooting film, which I still do. Once I got a handle on the technique I was never surprised when I got film back from the lab. After my first 6 months behind the lens of a film camera I never missed a single shot because of exposure or other technical problems. In the last several years I have not had to re-render more than a couple of comps because of a technical mistake I made.
I must reiterate. The file size difference in AME vs Deprecated H.264 is enormous when trying to match the quality. Any thing close to the old H.264 Deprecated format is massively larger. Plus there is still the color workspace issue.
I am thinking of starting up an online petition to bring back the old format. See if we can wake up Adobe to this tragic error in judgement.
Coca Cola fessed up to their lack of foresight when they phased out Classic Coke. Please Adobe, there is no shame in rectifying this error… and you will have the appreciation of a multitude of loyal customers.
If they want to make AME the one-stop shop for all our encoding needs, then might as well add OGV, webM, and other open codecs as well. I'm keeping AE CC around because AME has always been too slow and error-prone, and the new one is only marginally better.
What I ended up doing was keeping CC around and using it as a render mule. Despite bumping up its resources, AME14 just wasn't encoding a couple of quick turn-around sequences fast enough and it was not rendering certain effects. I ended up downsaving my 2014 sequences just to open and render them through CC.
This decision is stupid. Thats what this subscription model has brought us, they don't even have to try to make a better product and convince us to buy a new version, they got us all hooked on the crackpipe and can do whatever they want. Lots of people wouldn't have bought this version in pre-subscription times, and they know that, so they would have left this feature in there for sure. Even if it is "quite a lot of work" (< yeah right!)
I dont like where this is going at all! Shame on you.