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1. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
Ben Pleysier Jun 21, 2014 8:20 AM (in response to ottz0)It depends entirely on what sort of function you plan to have the framework do for you.
The good part in using a framework is that the largest part of the work has already been done as in a framework for RWD. In this category look for Bootstrap or Foundation.
You can also compare frameworks to decide which suits you.
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2. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
ottz0 Jun 21, 2014 8:52 AM (in response to Ben Pleysier)Yes, that is half of my question. To use Foundation5 you need to know SASS and with this you install Ruby. With Ruby you need to know command lines. Why do I need to know command lines from back in the 1980's??? When is this going to have a GUI that does it all. Why do I have to learn backwards just to use some framework that may or may not help me on my journey forwards?
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3. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
Ben Pleysier Jun 21, 2014 9:13 AM (in response to ottz0)You do not need to know SASS for Foundation5 although it should be an advantage knowing SASS.
A year or so ago, I wrote an (now outdated) article on using Sass which may be helpful. The article shows how to use Sass without Ruby.
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4. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
Rob Hecker2 Jun 21, 2014 9:50 AM (in response to ottz0)You probably already know that you can use all the best web technologies without the use of any kind of framework. If you prefer not to use frameworks. just don't.
The sophistication of the web has exploded over the past few years, as we all know. Most frameworks make it easier to make use of these technologies.
What are you really complaining about? Do you hope to stop innovation because it's just too much effort to keep up with it?
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5. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
ottz0 Jun 21, 2014 7:30 PM (in response to ottz0)Hi Rob, Not complaining buddy. Read my first post, I simply cannot learn everything.
I'm all for innovation but to learn one thing to learn another. So instead of being solid in HTML, CSS, JS, JQUERY, in order to progress with "inovation" I now need to learn all this, as some go with one thing and not others
command prompt,
node js,
Backbone
Spine
Angular
Agility
Restfull
XML, JSON
Laravel, Yii, code ignighter
SASS, Less
Bootstrap, Foundation
so on and so on
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6. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
Ben Pleysier Jun 21, 2014 9:51 PM (in response to ottz0)Have you forgotten PHP, Coldfusion, ASP, C++, Java, Ruby on the Rails etc etc...?
The answer is an emphatic NO!, you only need to learn everything about the basics, those being markup (HTML) and styling (CSS).
Once you have a good understanding of HTML and CSS, you will realise that there are issues of interactivity for which you need a scripting language.
In the first instance, this will be a client side script (JavaScript or JS). An excellent start to JS is a framework called jQuery. The jQuery framework has taken all of the hard work out of having to learn JavaScript and supplies us with a large number of useful widgets.
In the second instance, you will want to look at a server side script, the most common being PHP. Depending on your application, you could be looking at a number of different frameworks. However, once you have mastered PHP and its associated database MySQL, you will most likely not even want to use an often bloated framework.
Then there are our CSS compilers (not frameworks) called SASS and LESS, that are commonly used, but not exclusively, in Foundation and Bootstrap respectively. The use of the two most bloated RWD frameworks makes life very easy for web designers/developers. We can do without by creating our own RWD. As for the CSS compilers, give them a go, it will ease your task in creating your own style sheets.
Getting back to your original question, just learn HTML, CSS and a server side scripting language (PHP) and use jQuery widgets at your hearts content.
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7. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
Rob Hecker2 Jun 21, 2014 11:26 PM (in response to ottz0)OttzO, I see. You are not just talking about frameworks. Some of what you list are not frameworks. There is an insane range of technologies to know, and many framework options. If you only work on your own projects, as I do, you can focus on a set of software options and ignore the rest. You have to admit though, all of these are pretty simple to learn and free or inexpensive.
To put it in perspective, I can think of comparisons that make the constantly evolving software environment of web development seem like a blessing rather than a curse:
- In mechanical drafting there are only about four major software packages to learn, but the learning curve is very high for each and the software license can cost tens of thousands of dollars. If you wanted to learn CATIA, for example, you would probably have a hard time even finding a way to learn it. Few colleges can afford the $36K per seat license.
- I have a friend who spent 20 years writing assembly language, the opposite of web development in that there was extremely little variation to his work. He had no enthusiasm for the work he did (but was able to retire at 50).
I can think of lots of examples from the people I know of professions where the work is boring, even if the pay is high. The constantly moving target of web development does keep it interesting.
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8. Re: Framework for a framework for a framework for a framework
ottz0 Jun 21, 2014 11:32 PM (in response to ottz0)Thanks your your answers here Rob and Ben. Yes Ben you have put this into perspective for me




