12 Replies Latest reply on May 3, 2007 11:08 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?

    Stowball
      For the first time in a production environment, I was ready to use FW CS3 to slice and dice a colleague's PSD. I opened it in Photoshop and then in Fireworks for comparison - the two looked nothing alike.

      This particular colleague likes to take advantage of PS's Fill setting (as opposed to opacity and I can understand why in certain situations) - but Fireworks has no understanding of this Fill concept so every layer that uses it is darker in FW. So what's a guy to do?

      Is this a known integration issue? Will there be a solution for CS4? Can I wait that long? Is it ever really worth trying to open a PSD in Fireworks?

      I'm more than a little disappointed...

      Matt
      Firewoiks
        • 1. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
          Level 7
          Stowball wrote:


          > Is this a known integration issue? Will there be a solution for CS4? Can I
          > wait that long? Is it ever really worth trying to open a PSD in Fireworks?
          >
          > I'm more than a little disappointed...

          The problem might be caused by the image mode settings in Photoshop. If
          he is creating images for the web he should be using the sRGB color
          space rather than CMYK. In addition, embedded color profiles are ignored
          by Fireworks just as they are by browsers.


          --
          Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
          --------------------------------------------------------------
          http://www.projectseven.com
          Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
          CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
          http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
          --------------------------------------------------------------
          • 2. Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
            Stowball Level 1
            Linda

            The problem is not caused by any colour mode or embedded profiles - it's caused by Fireworks' lack of support for Photoshop's Fill feature.

            The Fill feature is useful, because you can change the opacity of the actual fill, without changing the opacity of any effects - like strokes - that are applied to the layer.

            My colleague uses this method frequently in his designs.

            This PNG demonstrates it perfectly: http://www.mattstow.com/downloads/fill_test.png

            And the original PSD can be found here: http://www.mattstow.com/downloads/fill_test.psd

            This is a real issue for PS->FW interoperability - I basically could not use FW for the task of preparing a design for the web.

            I'd be interested to hear how this will affect other users.

            Regards

            Matt
            • 3. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
              Level 7
              You can change the opacity of the fill in FW as well

              Stowball wrote:
              > Linda
              >
              > The problem is not caused by any colour mode or embedded profiles - it's
              > caused by Fireworks' lack of support for Photoshop's Fill feature.
              >
              > The Fill feature is useful, because you can change the opacity of the actual
              > fill, without changing the opacity of any effects - like strokes - that are
              > applied to the layer.
              >
              > My colleague uses this method frequently in his his designs.
              >
              > This PNG demonstrates it perfectly:
              > http://www.mattstow.com/downloads/fill_test.png
              >
              > And the original PSD can be found here:
              > http://www.mattstow.com/downloads/fill_test.psd
              >
              > This is a real issue for PS->FW interoperability - I basically could not use
              > FW for the task of preparing a design for the web.
              >
              > I'd be interested to hear how this will affect other users.
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Matt
              >
              • 4. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                Level 7
                Stowball wrote:

                >
                > This is a real issue for PS->FW interoperability - I basically could not use
                > FW for the task of preparing a design for the web.
                >

                If all you are doing is slicing it up for the web, why not have your
                colleague send it to you as a flattened png or jpeg?

                SKB
                • 5. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                  Level 7
                  I haven't tried this yet, but here's a thought:

                  PS is layer based, FW is object bases. As a result, in FW you can
                  control the opacity of layers AND objects. Is it similar enough to
                  Photoshop's Fill and Opacity in a layer? Maybe adjusting the opacity of
                  the object will get you what you need? It might impact the stroke on the
                  object, but you could possibly duplicate the object and remove/mask it's
                  fill, so the solid stroke remains.

                  It's a workaround, and a bit more work, but it might solve the problem
                  for now.

                  --
                  Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                  Extending Knowledge, Daily
                  http://www.communityMX.com/
                  CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                  http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                  ---
                  .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
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                  news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver

                  Stowball wrote:
                  > Linda
                  >
                  > The problem is not caused by any colour mode or embedded profiles - it's
                  > caused by Fireworks' lack of support for Photoshop's Fill feature.
                  >
                  > The Fill feature is useful, because you can change the opacity of the actual
                  > fill, without changing the opacity of any effects - like strokes - that are
                  > applied to the layer.
                  >
                  > My colleague uses this method frequently in his his designs.
                  >
                  > This PNG demonstrates it perfectly:
                  > http://www.mattstow.com/downloads/fill_test.png
                  >
                  > And the original PSD can be found here:
                  > http://www.mattstow.com/downloads/fill_test.psd
                  >
                  > This is a real issue for PS->FW interoperability - I basically could not use
                  > FW for the task of preparing a design for the web.
                  >
                  > I'd be interested to hear how this will affect other users.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  >
                  > Matt
                  >
                  • 6. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                    Stowball Level 1
                    quote:

                    Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                    You can change the opacity of the fill in FW as well


                    No, you can only change the opacity of an object in Fireworks. So, in the example I posted, the black border would also become semi-transparent - which is not the desired effect.

                    To change the opacity of a fill only can only be done with vectors, by changing the fill to a gradient, and setting the gradient nodes to be identical in colour and opacity.

                    Matt
                    • 7. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                      Level 7
                      Stowball wrote:


                      > I'd be interested to hear how this will affect other users.

                      It's not going to affect me because I use Fireworks rather than
                      Photoshop for designing Web graphics. :-)

                      --
                      Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
                      --------------------------------------------------------------
                      http://www.projectseven.com
                      Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
                      CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
                      http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
                      --------------------------------------------------------------
                      • 8. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                        Stowball Level 1
                        quote:

                        Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                        If all you are doing is slicing it up for the web, why not have your
                        colleague send it to you as a flattened png or jpeg?



                        Because slicing for the web is no longer a clear-cut, black-and-white exercise. For example, we need to consider how text resizing will affect the visuals of a design.

                        Take this crude example: http://www.mattstow.com/downloads/resize_header.png

                        The desired effect couldn't have been done if I was working from a flat file. I need layered files, to be able to do this kind of thing, thus I need the import of PSDs to be as perfect as possible, which includes understanding Photoshop's unique Fill opacity feature.

                        As a professional web and user interface designer, I recognise the importance of adding little touches to the sites I create. Not everyone will notice the time and effort that has gone into creating it, but if I can get a "wow" from a few users who appreciate will appreciate it, then I'm happy.

                        Regards

                        Matt

                        • 9. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                          Stowball Level 1
                          quote:

                          Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                          It's a workaround, and a bit more work, but it might solve the problem
                          for now.


                          Hi Jim

                          Yes, it's a workaround - but one I'd rather not have to do. For the example I provided, it was relatively simple, but for some of the stuff I'm given to work with, it's a Neddy-no-no.

                          If only I could get my team to work exclusively in FW!!!!! They can see the benefits, but they're too stuck in their ways and stubborn to change from Photoshop. Aaaarrrrrghhhh.

                          So in the meantime... Adobe, please provide a real solution. Alan...are you listening?

                          Matt

                          • 10. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                            Level 7
                            A gradient fill can be made transparent. For a solid color just make
                            both ends of the gradient fill the same color.
                            So you can have the border be solid and the fill be semi-transparent

                            Stowball wrote:
                            >
                            quote:

                            Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                            > You can change the opacity of the fill in FW as well

                            >
                            > No, you can only change the opacity of an object in Fireworks. So, in the
                            > example I posted, the black border would also become semi-transparent - which
                            > is not the desired effect.
                            >
                            > To change the opacity of a fill only can only be done with vectors, by
                            > changing the fill to a gradient, and setting the gradient nodes to be identical
                            > in colour and opacity.
                            >
                            > Matt
                            >
                            • 11. Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                              Level 1
                              Matt,

                              I believe that Alan is pretty darn busy lately.

                              Perhaps that you might want to address this issue with Adobe team by filling in a form to submit for feedback and/or suggestion through Adobe feature request form link below:

                              http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                              I hope that helps.

                              Cheers, Brian

                              quote:

                              Originally posted by: Stowball
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                              It's a workaround, and a bit more work, but it might solve the problem
                              for now.


                              Hi Jim

                              Yes, it's a workaround - but one I'd rather not have to do. For the example I provided, it was relatively simple, but for some of the stuff I'm given to work with, it's a Neddy-no-no.

                              If only I could get my team to work exclusively in FW!!!!! They can see the benefits, but they're too stuck in their ways and stubborn to change from Photoshop. Aaaarrrrrghhhh.

                              So in the meantime... Adobe, please provide a real solution. Alan...are you listening?

                              Matt


                              • 12. Re: Photoshop Fill - A major integration issue?
                                Level 7
                                Stowball wrote:
                                > If only I could get my team to work exclusively in FW!!!!! They can
                                see the
                                > benefits, but they're too stuck in their ways and stubborn to change from
                                > Photoshop. Aaaarrrrrghhhh.

                                I'm afraid you are going against the current. Even 'your' request was to
                                make Fireworks more interoperable with Photoshop rather than Photoshop
                                being more interoperable with Fireworks. :)

                                SKB