8 Replies Latest reply on Jul 2, 2014 12:20 PM by Peter Spier

    InDesign TOC order using multiple stories

    HH_BFS Level 1

      Hello all,

       

      I'm having some trouble with the TOC mechanism in InDesign. Assuming a story flowing from page 1 to page 100 in 100 textframes (one textframe per page). The TOC preset is configured well, TOC creation works fine.

       

      When creating an additional textframe (new story, not linked, containing an automated general index) on page 50 e.g., styling its content with a TOC relevant paragraph style and updating TOC, for some poor reasons the new frames entry appears at the end of the TOC (with correct numbering).

       

      I'm aware of InDesigns logic starting at the upper left corner and working down before moving right to read out paragraph positions, which in my opinion shouldn't be the problem/solution in that particular case. The problem seems to be that InDesign is not able to bring different stories entries in correct order. Can anyone confirm that behavior?

       

      Thank you very much!

       

      Jan

        • 1. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
          Javed_ali Adobe Employee

          I tried the same and didn't face the issue.

          Do you by any chance have sort alphabetically turned On in the TOC dialog.

           

          Thanks

          Javed

          • 2. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
            HH_BFS Level 1

            Hey Javed,

             

            thanks for your advice! Unfortunately "sort alphabetically" option definitely is already turned off in the dialog.

             

            Working with InDesign for years it is the first time I recognize that behavior. Unbelievable somehow, but maybe there are some new ideas around here ...

             

            Thanks!

             

            BR

            Jan

            • 3. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              What version of ID are you using? are you saying you have one story that threads from page 1 to page 49, then to page 51, and you have a different story on page 50?

              • 4. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
                HH_BFS Level 1

                Hello Peter,

                 

                thanks for your reply. I tested in InDesign CS 5.5 and CS 6.

                 

                Yes, you're right. To be to be accurate there are two stories on page 50. On the one hand the major story which starts at page 1, on the other hand an new story in an additional text frame, where the general index is generated by InDesign. Since the index has to be a separate story to maintain the possibility updating entries/page references automatically, there is a need for that additional frame. When removing the non-index text frame on page 50, like you assumed the initial situation to be, the result remains the same.

                 

                I know it sounds kind of absurd to place a general index into the middle of the document, but its all part of an automated workflow where that is desired.

                 

                BR

                Jan

                • 5. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  If you have two stories on the same page, the rules for how ID scans the page looking for things to include in the TOC would certainly apply. Can you show us screen shots of both the page and of the TOC?

                  • 6. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    What I'm seeing in my testing is that the second story paragraphs are always listed ahead of the threaded story, but in the correct page sequence, regardless of the relative positions of the frames.

                    • 7. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
                      HH_BFS Level 1

                      Hello Peter,

                       

                      that you very much for analysis and patience!

                       

                      Unfortunately I'm not allowed to present the original layout here, but I built a sample file instead.

                       

                      You already mentioned the fact, that the second story paragraphs are listed ahead of the threaded story. I really wonder why InDesign is not able to merge different stories in TOC. Maybe we just have to accept that. I thought about building a solution by scripting, but would prefer a way without it, because the InDesign document will surely get hold of people, who are not familiar with scripting or simply not aware of the (potential …) bug. However thats my problem and I'm just lucky that it does not seem to be my fault.

                       

                      Some additional info:

                       

                      The sample file has 6 pages.

                       

                      Example 1:

                      Page 1: contains TOC (separate story)

                      Page 2-6: threaded story; first paragraph starting on page 3 because it is forced to start at an odd page

                      Page 3: contains 2 stories/frames; the threaded one and an index story (screenshot no. 1).

                      Page 5: contains 2 stories/frames; the threaded one and a second index story (just for testing purposes)

                      When generating TOC both index headlines appear below the ones from the threaded story (screenshot no. 2).

                       

                       

                      screen2.png

                      Screenshot no. 1

                       

                      screen3.png

                      Screenshot no. 2

                       

                       

                      Example 2:

                      Page 1: contains TOC (separate story)

                      Page 2: begin of threaded story

                      Page 3: contains only index story (screenshot no. 3)

                      Page 4-6: continuation of threaded story

                      Page 5: contains 2 stories/frames; the threaded one and a second index story (just for testing purposes); first paragraph starting here because it is forced to start at an odd page

                      When generating TOC first index headline appears above the ones from the threaded story, second index headline appears below the ones from the threaded story (screenshot no. 4).

                       

                      screen3.png

                      Screenshot no. 3

                       

                      screen4.png

                      Screenshot no. 4

                       

                       

                       

                      In both examples the page sequence is correct, it is just separated by story.

                       

                      Given two text frames on the same page the mechanism works like that in my opinion:

                       

                      Situation 1:

                      Frame 1: second oder further frame of a story (contains text)

                      Frame 2: first frame of a story (contains text)

                      RESULT in TOC: story of frame 1 is listed first

                       

                      Situation 2:

                      Frame 1: second (oder further) frame of a story (NO CONTENT in any frame till this page, because of setting paragraph start to odd/even pages e.g.)

                      Frame 2: first frame of a story (contains text)

                      RESULT in TOC: story of frame 2 is listed first (story 1 begins on an earlier page, but first paragraph of each story matters)


                      Situation 3:

                      Frame 1: first frame of a story (contains text)

                      Frame 2: first frame of a story (contains text)

                      Both frames with different x-position

                      RESULT in TOC: story of the more left standing (lower x-position) frame is listed first (= x-position matters)


                      Situation 4:

                      Frame 1: first frame of a story (contains text)

                      Frame 2: first frame of a story (contains text)

                      Both frames with identical x-position, but different y-position

                      RESULT in TOC: story of the frame on top of the page is listed first (= y-position matters)

                       

                      So far, many thanks!

                       

                      BR

                      Jan

                      • 8. Re: InDesign TOC order using multiple stories
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Seems like you've done a pretty thorough analysis.