30 Replies Latest reply: Dec 22, 2014 3:48 PM by Eddie Faggioli1 RSS

    Audition Not Editing Original File

    Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

      I'm used to working in Audition CS6. I import an MP3 and the sound waves are all uneven, like an MP3 naturally looks like. When I open the same MP3 in Audition CC 2014 the MP3 seems to have been converted to something else because the sound waves are all razor flat. I don't want that. I want to be editing an actual MP3 file. How do I set my CC 2014 to edit actual MP3s like my CS6? I don't want them automatically converted into something else before editing them.

        • 1. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
          SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

          No version of Audition has ever edited actual MP3 files at all. It never has done, and never will. When you open one, it decodes it into a wav file, because that is Audition's native working format, which is essentially uncompressed. You may have thought that you were editing an MP3, but in fact you weren't. When you saved it, this would have been a re-encoded, new, MP3 which was inevitably of lower quality, because of the decode/encode process.

           

          If you save your file with the same name as the original file, this will be overwritten completely. If you do this enough times, the quality will drop considerably; MP3 is only a compressed distribution format, after all.

          • 2. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
            Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

            If I edit an MP3 file in CS6, after the import the sound waves will extend passed the 0 mark. I am able to turn down the volume because the sound waves come down from below the 0 mark and I can export it again as a less distorted MP3. When I take the same MP3 in CC 2014, after the import all the sound waves are chopped off at the 0 Mark and the distortion become permanent. How can I edit in CC 2014 by having the import recognize the sound waves that go passed the 0 mark? I was having this same problem when I would send audio from Premiere Pro to Audition. The waves would get chopped off at 0, but if I imported the MP3 directly to Audition CS6 the waves wouldn't get chopped off.

            • 3. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
              SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

              Make sure that when you open the MP3, that it's imported and opened as a 32-bit file not a 16-bit one. Then you will be able to control the level of it without loss. But I have to say that if you are importing files that do this, then they weren't coded very well in the first place...

              • 4. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                Thank you for helping me. Could you please give me a step by step breakdown of how to set it to 32 bit? Also, it seems that no matter what encodes the MP3 the levels seem to go everywhere. When I encode to MP3 in Audition I have to make my DJ mixes -1.5 db because I know the sound waves will probably reach 0 db somewhere when it converts to MP3. It just seems to be the nature of a converted MP3.

                • 5. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                  SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                  In the current version of Audition, MP3 files are decoded and opened automatically in 32-bit; when the file is opened, you should see information in the bottom RH corner telling you exactly what the format is (sample rate/bit depth). Personally I've never had MP3 files jump 15dB when encoded, but I only use high bit rates and I'm not sure what happens with lower ones, where potentially there are more likely to be level changes. But even with low bit depths, 15dB jumps seem to be rather excessive...

                   

                  The only other possibility for error doesn't actually lie with Audition at all, but Fraunhofer's MP3 encoder. In order to use MP3 legitimately, Adobe buys in the encoder, and they use the latest version with each new release. I'm pretty sure that there have been some issues with at least one version in the past (although I don't recall exactly what they were), but I think that a developer might be in a better position to comment on that.

                  • 6. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                    _durin_ Employee Hosts

                    Eddie,

                     

                    Can you post a screenshot of the same MP3 file open in CS6 and CC 2014?  Please include the "Source Format" column in the Files panel in the screenshots.

                     

                    I can't think of a reason why there would be any difference importing MP3s between the two applications, nor why you would see a clipped waveform.  Perhaps the information in the screenshots can give us a starting point to troubleshoot.

                    • 7. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                      Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                      The first screen shot is CC and the second is CS6. You can see where CC cuts off the MP3's sound waves. This problem also occurs when moving audio from Premiere Pro to Audition. You can also see in the bottom left they were both 32 bit files.

                      Screen Shot 2014-07-07 at 5.28.07 PM.png

                      Screen Shot 2014-07-07 at 5.29.05 PM.png

                      • 8. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                        Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                        They weren't changing 15db they were changing 1.5 db. You can see the difference in the wave forms above that the nature of this higher quality MP3 has sound waves that aren't naturally flat after then encoding.

                        • 9. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                          Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                          I'm sorry, the screen shots I took didn't have the source column shown. Oddly enough, I went to make the new screen shots and the problem didn't happen again in CC.

                          • 10. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                            SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                            Eddie Faggioli1 wrote:

                             

                            They weren't changing 15db they were changing 1.5 db. You can see the difference in the wave forms above that the nature of this higher quality MP3 has sound waves that aren't naturally flat after then encoding.

                            Sorry - it's this stupid forum software. It makes some figures rather harder to read, and I missed the decimal point completely. With a lower bit rate MP3 then some level changes are indeed likely to occur, simply because of the alterations made when the coding gain is achieved. It's more likely not to happen with high level signals though - they don't get altered so much. I'd expect it with lower level ones, simply because of the way that the critical band/masking algorithm works. Also I'd expect this to happen more with constant level signals - the coding gain is greater on those than it is on ones with large changes in them. Is 1.5dB a typical gain change? On a steady-state signal, yes it is. I can say that pretty definitively because it's approximately the level I encountered when I researched this as part of a project to find a cheap way of recording loads of noise data for measurement purposes (back in the days when storage wasn't so large, and cost more per MB). You can reliably use MP3 for changing noise measurements after the fact, but not steady state ones.

                            • 11. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                              Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                              Wow, what an interesting read! Thank you for sharing that!

                              • 12. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                Finally! I got it to do it. The first is where CC 2014 chopped off the MP3 waves. You can see it because I lowered the amplification. The second is where CS6 did not chop off the sound waves:

                                Screen Shot 2014-07-26 at 11.21.43 AM.png

                                Screen Shot 2014-07-26 at 11.25.14 AM.png

                                • 13. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                  Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                  I've been patiently waiting and no one from Adobe is even speaking about this issue. I'm stuck using CS6 until Adobe wakes up and does something about this, since 5 months ago.

                                  • 14. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                    ryclark Community Member

                                    It looks like no-one else has run into this problem as Adobe hasn't come back with an answer. Is it possible to post one of these .mp3 files on somewhere like Dropbox so that other people can download it and see if they can replicate the problem?

                                     

                                    Also there has recently been a new version of Audition CC 2014.2 posted that fixes several bugs from earlier versions. Perhaps make sure that your copy of Audition is updated from the Cloud. It might have cured your problem.

                                     

                                    Audition CC 2014.2 Now available

                                    • 15. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                      Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                      I replicated the problem today after previously updating Audition with the new update. I'm 100% sure other people are running into this problem but aren't aware of it because you have to be very analytical to notice it. I believe this was the audio file used above where CC 2014 chopped the sound waves off during opening/import and CS6 didn't: Dropbox - Audition Audio File

                                      • 16. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                        Bob Howes Community Member

                                        You've posted a zipped video file, not an audio file.  However, if that's the audio you're talking about the reason it looks too high is because it IS recorded at too high a level and gets into clipping which is audible even without opening it in Audition.

                                         

                                        If you simply want to turn it down, use the "head up display" (that little box with pan and level controls that floats around the top of the waveform display) and simply turn it down a couple of dB.  Otherwise, go to effects/amplitude and compression/normalise and normalise your signal to whatever level you want (below 0dB.  However, none of this will fix the fact the original audio is over modulated (if that video is what you want to talk about).

                                        • 17. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                          Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                          That was the audio. In CS6 you can turn the volume down that has gone over the clipping point but In CC and CC 2014 you usually can't. They can't fix CC to do what already CS6 does?

                                          • 18. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                            Bob Howes Community Member

                                            For me CS6 and CC work exactly the same and I have just as much control over levels

                                             

                                            On your screen grabs, is it the fact that the CC waveform looks a bit more blocky, i.e. has fewer "white bits" than the CS6?  If that's all it is, I''ll wager that it's purely a function of you having the left hand frames (with things like File Information, Browser, etc.) set a lot wider which results in the waveform looking more "scrunched up".  Just narrow that left hand area and see how the waveform image changes. 

                                             

                                            As for the ability to adjust levels, I can see the Head Up Display in both grabs...and it would work exactly the same way on both..

                                            • 19. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                              Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                              Let's take a step back for a moment. I sent you the audio file but the version I sent you was after I corrected the clipping sound waves in CS6 and it was a bad example. I uploaded a better example with new screen shots to see if you can replicate the same problem below:

                                              Dropbox - Audition Audio File

                                              • 20. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                                To try and answer your last question I zoomed in and took a screen shot. The sound wave are actually chopped off and it's not the zoom or window sizes:Zoomed In Screen Shot 2014-12-21 at 1.22.44 AM.png

                                                • 21. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                  ryclark Community Member

                                                  I have just tried opening your most recently posted audio file in both CS 6 and CC 2014.2 and I agree that there is a difference in the appearance of the clipped waveform. CS 6 shows over '0' peaks in the waveform whereas CC doesn't. It just clips everything at '0'. Here are the results of the Amplitude Statistics which clearly shows the difference in the Peak Amplitude and Maximum/Minimum Peak Sample values. The first are the results from CS 6 and the second from CC 2014.2.

                                                   

                                                  ScreenHunter_34 Dec. 21 12.10.jpg

                                                   

                                                  ScreenHunter_35 Dec. 21 12.10.jpg

                                                   

                                                  Edit. Ah ha I have just spotted the difference. CS 6 opened the file as 32 bit but CC seemed to think it should be 16 bit. Hence the clipping. But why I haven't discovered yet.

                                                  • 22. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                    Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                                    Ok, now that we replicated it can someone tell the Adobe engineers so they can work on it?

                                                    • 23. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                      ryclark Community Member

                                                      Bug reporting form here:

                                                       

                                                      Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                                                       

                                                      But hopefully after the Christmas/New Year break Durin or one of the other Audition developers might see this thread anyway.

                                                      • 24. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                        Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                                        Thanks for checking it out.

                                                        • 25. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                          Eddie Faggioli1 Community Member

                                                          I successfully sent in a bug report with a link to this discussion.

                                                          • 26. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                            Bob Howes Community Member

                                                            Just a thought...

                                                             

                                                            As what you've posted has been video files, did you originally just open an MP3 or did you do some form of import of the audio and video.

                                                             

                                                            If the latter, the Import command usually gives you a menu where you specify how you want it imported and this remembers your past settings.  If this has somehow been set it to 16 bit, that'll have been remembered and may explain why it's opening things that way.  Similarly, if it was imported by some other software outside Audition, the same might have happened.

                                                            • 27. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                              ryclark Community Member

                                                              I tried it al ways during my experiment. So it must be a difference in how the codecs interpret the audio part of the files' metadata. Maybe the codec was changed between CS 6 and CC 2014 when Adobe dropped having to use DMLS to open files. However did try opening the posted .mp4 in CS 6 with DMKS enabled and disabled without any difference in the loaded audio. So really need a developer's input to provide an explanation.

                                                              • 28. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                                ryclark Community Member

                                                                Further experimenting shows that, in fact, .mp3 files seem to load OK in both versions of Audition. I tried several mp3s from different sources, including some Rock/Pop with very high levels, and they all opened in CC 2014 as 32 bit with any oversamples showing on the waveform as in CS 6.

                                                                 

                                                                It was only the two .mp4 posted by Eddie that showed any problems in CS 2014 with clipping and Amplitude Statistics not measuring the over peaked samples and showing the files as measured as 16 bit.

                                                                • 29. Re: Audition Not Editing Original File
                                                                  Charles VW Adobe Employee

                                                                  The MP4 files can be opened through a few different plug-ins so there may be a way around this. But it should probably be moved to a new thread.