11 Replies Latest reply on Jul 8, 2014 6:48 AM by Rioy

    Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?


      Does this technique ever work with Adobe CS6?  It's not working for me.  Two previous users asked, but did not get a reply.  Should I assume no reply means it does not work?


      Are there special conditions that will cause use of 'to next use of style' to fail?


      Can a character be inserted manually at the end of a selection to make the index selection work?


        • 1. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
          Ellis home Level 4

          No reply means not many users here use Indesign Index and the ones that have used it (like me) haven't used the "to next use of style" feature. Can you illustrate the use of this feature with an example so we can have a better idea?

          • 2. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
            Rioy Level 1

            I'm not sure how to illustrate something that doesn't occur.  Instructions on the adobe web site and in manuals seem to be straightforward.

            In the screen capture, you can see that the name of the guy (centered in column) is marked for beginning indexing.  The program picked up the name. The menu choices are shown in the page reference options.


            After I posted my question, I went through the 'type' choices and selected them one by one.  Most of them did not produce the expected result.  If I selected a number of pages, it didn't adjust the pages.  End of  section did produce an correct page range in this choice just once.  As I played through the other choices, most of which did not produce an correct page range, I tried to return to the choice that did produce it.  At that point, it didn't return to show the correct set of page numbers.  I tried another index entry.  I picked all the choices to see if any would produce the correct range.  Or anything but one page number, the page where I began the selection.  Those produced no ranges. Just the single page number where I highlighted text as the first step in making an index entry.  It's really hard to learn from experience that produces random results, or to explain something when the actions don't produce much of a desired outcome.

            index 1.JPG

            • 3. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
              Ellis home Level 4

              So, basically the idea is you want the index to pick up the name from Chapter Title for Memoirs  to the next use of the same paragraph style? Are there instances of the name in other sections you don't want to be listed? I'm just trying to understand the idea behind it. When I use Index I just select the reference, choose End of Document and Add All and I get all the pages where the reference appears.

              • 4. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                Robert Sinclair Level 1

                Check out #10 under "Add Index Entries" at this link: InDesign Help | Creating an index


                1) Add All the topic "Joe Smith" (with sort by "Smith, Joe"), then click Done.


                2) Then, double-click the Topic "Joe Smith"


                3) Change the topic name from "Joe Smith" to "Smith, Joe," then click OK.


                "Smith, Joe" still holds the page number references as it did when you first Added All.


                Although this is a manual solution (Adobe NEEDS an Add All as Proper Name option!!!), it does accomplish what you want BEFORE generating the index.

                • 5. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                  Rioy Level 1

                  Each of the subsections is a biography about a particular person, eg John Doe..  John Doe would be mentioned a lot in his chapter.  I thought it would be useful and simple, for that subsection, to list the range of pages for John Doe, and then, within those pages, not again index John. John might be indexed by a single page in other sub chapters where he's mentioned.  The problem is not when to use a page range.


                  The question is 'Why does something that is explained to be straightforward and simple with just 2 menu choices not work consistently at all."   Either the procedure is not operable as described, or preconditions within the file or the menues have not been adequately described.  Since others report the same outcome when using this utility, it probably is not just my program on one computer or my file.

                  • 6. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                    Robert Sinclair Level 1

                    I also wanted to add this tidbit of InDesign indexing goodness... use TextWrangler to add index tags!!!  Check out this article and the comments below:  Wrangle up InDesign index entries… without InDesign. | Colecandoo!

                    • 7. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                      Rioy Level 1

                      This doesn't seem to be a solution.  For one name, the subsection might be 6 to 8 pages out of about 60.  Your method seems like it would get all the instances on 60 pages.  Don't need that.  See the item above.


                      Do Adobe Company people every answer these questions?  They would know if this choice in the indexing works, and what preconditions have to be satisfied to make it succeed.  The instructions seem to be simple enough.  Any more complexity and who would use it?  The impression I have is that it does not work as described.  Maybe, if that's the case, it could be removed from the software so as not to mislead.

                      • 8. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                        Robert Sinclair Level 1

                        Ah, my apologies... I misunderstood the question.  I have not used the method you describe above, but there is some info here along the lines of what you're looking for:  http://indesignsecrets.com/indexing-a-range-rather-than-individual-pages.php

                        • 9. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                          Ellis home Level 4

                          I'm not sure Indesign Index can produce page ranges and single pages in one go. It's been a while since I did an index, but I vaguely remember having to manually adjust the page range (for say, one chapter where the reference appeared many times) after listing all references. There are commercial indexing programs out there that I'm sure can handle that.

                          • 10. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                            Rioy Level 1

                            After more fooling around, I've made the ID work. Each subsection begins with a title, formatted with a paragraph style sheet.  In subsections, I almost always have a set of end notes.  They are formatted with another paragraph style--different font, font size and other details.  The next instance of the subsection title follows those notes.  It should have been possible, I figured, by telling the program to go the next subsection title, get a page range.  Does not work for the style sheets making the subsection title.  But, if I tell the program to go to the style sheets for the notes, which is a different name from the style sheet to begin the page sequence, then the selection works.  I get a useful and accurate page range except that that page range extends only to the beginning of the notes.  Success, sort of.


                            I experimented briefly with some other style sheet names just to see if the program could make a page range as long as the beginning and ending style names were different, and it seemed to work.


                            As I have explained the fix, It might seem that the program has to pick the next different style following the style that begins the page range.  But that's not the case.  I have in some subchapters, long quotes styled with a paragraph style sheet. No problem there.  The indexing algorithm skips the style sheet that makes a right-left indented long quotation. With my layout and my style sheets, it seems the problem is specifically that the programs hangs up if it is supposed to begin and end on the same style

                            The fix I have works, sort of.  The notes sometimes cross a page break, for example, the final paragraph of the body text of the subchapter ends near the lower right of page 67.  The notes follow onto 6 inches of page 68.  The index will indicate that the sub chapter ends on page 67 and the following one begins on page 69, not indicating inclusion of the sub chapter notes.  Only on one page do I have enough notes to fill the entire available space with notes so that there is a page unaccounted for in the index.  I can live with that, I think.  Readers will be able to figure it out.


                            If my explanation is correct, that the indexer will not correctly index a page range beginning and ending on the same paragraph style, how dumb is that?   Can you make a style sheet to style non printing characters just to use a different style that will allow a manual insertion that ensures both body text and notes are included in an index page range?

                            • 11. Re: Indexing page ranges with 'to next use of style'?
                              Rioy Level 1

                              If I understand your comment about single pages and ranges, I don't think it would make sense to index a range, and then try to index specific pages within the same range using the same term on the same level of indexing.  In my use, I have one whole subchapter where the subject's name appears at least once in almost every paragraph.  No need to pick any of those name occurrences in that page range for a level 1 index entry.

                              I can understand that you might want to index that person's name within that page name in a level 2 or 3 index entry, for example

                              level 1:  saw mills

                              Level 2:  Doe, John  p. 2.


                              I haven't tested this specific indexing pattern yet, but it should be one way of indexing within a previously designated range of pages.


                              Within the same chapter, if I specify a subchapter range of pages, but the name appears in the next subchapter on just one page, I can mark that separate one page occurrence for indexing, and it will be in the index.  That works.


                              One other detail:  In a couple of cases, the subchapter title has two names, in this case, husband and wife.  I marked the two different names for indexing with a range of pages.  The index utility successfully made an index entry for both names with the same range of pages--that range being defined from the style of the subchapter heading to the style for notes (which may be explained in a following post--can't tell until I post where this one will be in the sequence).