25 Replies Latest reply on Apr 29, 2007 12:28 PM by Newsgroup_User

    FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design

    jsteinmann Level 1
      I watched the clip about how the new cs3 fireworks makes mocking up layouts easy? Has anyone tried to create front end designs with the new version? Most people use Photoshop to do that, but didn't know if fireworks has created a better solution for creating mockups for clients that want to see front end samples
        • 1. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
          Level 7
          jsteinmann wrote:
          > I watched the clip about how the new cs3 fireworks makes mocking up layouts
          > easy? Has anyone tried to create front end designs with the new version? Most
          > people use Photoshop to do that, but didn't know if fireworks has created a
          > better solution for creating mockups for clients that want to see front end
          > samples
          >

          I always use FW for my designs. For me, the workflow is much easier.

          --
          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
          Extending Knowledge, Daily
          http://www.communityMX.com/
          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
          ---
          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
          news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
          news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver
          • 2. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
            Level 7
            jsteinmann wrote:

            > I watched the clip about how the new cs3 fireworks makes mocking up layouts
            > easy? Has anyone tried to create front end designs with the new version? Most
            > people use Photoshop to do that, but didn't know if fireworks has created a
            > better solution for creating mockups for clients that want to see front end
            > samples

            Front end of what? If you mean Web pages, I've been mocking them up in
            Fireworks since 1999.

            --
            Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
            --------------------------------------------------------------
            http://www.projectseven.com
            Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
            CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
            http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
            --------------------------------------------------------------
            • 3. FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
              jsteinmann Level 1
              yes, every web site has a front end and back end. The back end is the code that makes it all work. The front end is the visual user interface that is seen by the end user.

              if you look at many of the professional front end designs used and sold in the world of web design, the majority of them are in PSD format. In fact, most design companies use Photoshop for the design, and Fireworks to slice it up and create the rollovers, etc. Now I'm wondering how much better the CS3 version of fireworks is that they mention using it exclusively for mock ups you present to clients before the build. The school of thought has always been that Photoshop is superior to creating graphic interfaces with all the possibilities available to you, so it's an interesting twist now that both softwares are being released by Adobe. Is there a transition happening where Photoshop is more of a graphic design application and beef up fireworks to hang with Photoshop? I was interested in some insight on what people that are use to doing this kind of front end work for web related applications thought, especially those that have CS3...
              • 4. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                Level 1
                jsteinmann,

                Have you really tried to conduct a search like "Fireworks Mockup" around Adobe site? I assure you that you will find some Fireworks Articles on this issue and has been for some years.

                Here is a quick homework assignment. Go and find it.

                cheers, Brian
                • 5. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                  Level 7
                  jsteinmann wrote:

                  > if you look at many of the professional front end designs used and sold in the
                  > world of web design, the majority of them are in PSD format.

                  You mean templates. I create original designs rather than using templates.

                  > The school of thought has always been that
                  > Photoshop is superior to creating graphic interfaces with all the possibilities
                  > available to you, so it's an interesting twist now that both software are being
                  > released by Adobe.

                  I guess that depends on whose school of thought you follow. :-) Here's a
                  great article on using Fireworks.

                  http://www.adobe.com/devnet/fireworks/articles/why_fireworks.html


                  --
                  Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
                  --------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.projectseven.com
                  Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
                  CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
                  http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
                  --------------------------------------------------------------
                  • 6. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                    jsteinmann Level 1
                    quote:

                    Originally posted by: Deaf Web Designer
                    jsteinmann,

                    Have you really tried to conduct a search like "Fireworks Mockup" around Adobe site? I assure you that you will find some Fireworks Articles on this issue and has been for some years.

                    Here is a quick homework assignment. Go and find it.

                    cheers, Brian


                    Your comments are extremely rude and arrogant. How can this be a topic for years when I'm discussing a product that just released? I have a homework assignment for you, learn to carry yourself like a professional. If you're attitude represents anything close to the work you do, consider a new profession.

                    • 7. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                      Level 1
                      jsteinmann,

                      Perhaps my choice of words I used in my previous post wasn't clearly or properly communicate to what I think. It is just that only IF you conduct a search query. If you had searched, I am sure that you would get some information based on search query and that you could be of get information that you are looking for.

                      Sometime it is rather rude for some people NOT searching, becasue it has been, in fact, readily available somewhere on Adobe site.

                      You are entitled to what you think, I am entitled to think mine. Maybe we don't agree on this one. Have a great weekend.

                      Cheers, Brian
                      • 8. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                        jsteinmann Level 1
                        Yes, have you done a search for mockups and fireworks mockups? There are no topics in this forum. First response to a question shouldn't be to jump down their throat with a bad attitude telling them to look it up. With a product that just launched, 10 threads wouldn't be too much.
                        • 9. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                          Level 7
                          jsteinmann wrote:
                          > Your comments are extremely rude and arrogant. How can this be a topic for
                          > years when I'm discussing a product that just released? I have a homework
                          > assignment for you, learn to carry yourself like a professional. If you're
                          > attitude represents anything close to the work you do, consider a new
                          > profession.

                          jsteinmann,

                          What I think DWD meant and I agree with him is that Fireworks has been
                          the tool of choice for creating Web site mockups or front ends for a lot
                          of people for many years. The marketing as a "quick prototyping"
                          application may be new to CS3 but Fireworks' advantages as a quicker,
                          more flexible mockup and layout application have been obvious to many
                          from version 1.0 (I started using FW at version 2.0 myself).

                          Like Linda, I came to Fireworks from Photoshop around 1999 out of
                          frustration with Photoshop as an inadequate layout application. Many
                          people use Photoshop to create layouts (Web or otherwise) because that's
                          the application they know best, not because it's the best tool for the
                          job. Any vector based application (Illustrator, FreeHand, InDesign, etc)
                          is better suited to layout tasks than Photoshop really. Fireworks itself
                          always had the advantage of being a hybrid vector/bitmap application
                          with extensive toolsets of both kinds which saved users the trouble of
                          using 2 or 3 applications to get the job done.

                          I don't know how long you have been working on the Web but 10 years ago
                          it was very common to start a layout in Illustrator, import it into
                          Photoshop to add effects and finish the design then bring the psd file
                          into a third application (like Debabelizer or SmartSaver Pro (that was
                          before ImageReady) to slice it up, optimize the slices and export them.
                          It was a tedious and awkward workflow and if you had to make changes to
                          the layout you had to go through the entire routine once again... and
                          again, and again.

                          Fireworks saved us from all that because you could do all of it, from
                          the creative design phase to exporting the finished graphics in one
                          single app, quickly, easily and with mostly non-destructive vector
                          editing and effects. Now, of course, Fireworks CS3 adds even more power
                          to that workflow with multiple pages and rich symbols (among other
                          things) but Fireworks has always been a fantastic mockup tool and to
                          many of us, the very best one.

                          If you want to read more specific details, you can read the article
                          Linda gave the link to in her second post to the thread. It was written
                          long before the CS3 suite came out and both Photoshop and Fireworks have
                          evolved since then but most of my points in that article still stand.

                          HTH!

                          --
                          Stéphane Bergeron
                          reach:connect:communicate
                          www.webfocusdesign.com
                          blog:tutorials:articles:gallery
                          www.pixelyzed.com
                          • 10. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                            Level 7
                            jsteinmann wrote:
                            > Yes, have you done a search for mockups and fireworks mockups? There are no
                            > topics in this forum. First response to a question shouldn't be to jump down
                            > their throat with a bad attitude telling them to look it up. With a product
                            > that just launched, 10 threads wouldn't be too much.
                            >

                            Perhaps this will be of interest:

                            http://www.communitymx.com/abstract.cfm?cid=79C7D

                            Read Stephane's article as well, which was linked to in an earlier thread.

                            I use both Photoshop and Fireworks. PS is an amazing photo imaging
                            application, but I do not use it for my web design mockups, just like I
                            don't try to edit or print high resolution images within Fireworks. FW
                            rocks for screen graphics and web page designs. CS3 takes things even
                            further with some new tools to expedite the mock up process and better
                            integration with Photoshop and Illustrator.

                            --
                            Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                            Extending Knowledge, Daily
                            http://www.communityMX.com/
                            CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                            http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                            ---
                            .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                            news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
                            news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver
                            • 11. FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                              jsteinmann Level 1
                              Thank you for the great response, I really appreciate the time you spent to write that. I've always used fireworks for the dreamweaver prep work (like rollovers, slicing it up, etc.), and found it to be very useful program when you need to make some quick changes to a graphic. Didn't really have much trouble with Photoshop, a right mouse click getting you any layer you want to work with quickly, and pretty universally used as the main graphic editor among web designers I knew. The only thing that bothered me with Fireworks, and why I've avoided it for mockups to date (and especially to sell front end design templates to people), is that it doesn't work in PS if you need it to. In other words, I can always go from PS to FW and have all the layers there without much drama (pat on the back for Macromedia), but sometimes fireworks to PS was rough. At the least, you'd have to save as a seperate PSD file (because png were just one graphic) just to work on the layers at all, and it just wasn't nice switching between the two. Now that Adobe owns all of this, does PS CS3 finally play nice with fireworks?
                              • 12. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                Level 7
                                "jsteinmann" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                news:f10b9m$cdv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                > if you look at many of the professional front end designs used and
                                > sold in the
                                > world of web design, the majority of them are in PSD format. In fact,
                                > most
                                > design companies use Photoshop for the design, and Fireworks to slice
                                > it up and
                                > create the rollovers, etc.

                                That kind of design is archaic.


                                --
                                Al Sparber - PVII
                                http://www.projectseven.com
                                Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                Authors: "42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design"




                                • 13. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                  jsteinmann Level 1
                                  When did photoshop become archaic to use for web design?
                                  • 14. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                    Level 7


                                    > When did photoshop become archaic to use for web design?

                                    Not to use it, but to rely on it.

                                    The workflow of doing a design in ps, then slicing it up and generating html
                                    from ps or imageready and using that html/css without knowing what it is or
                                    means.

                                    it's okay for quick dirty jobs but it makes quick dirty pages.

                                    --
                                    Alan
                                    Adobe Community Expert, dreamweaver

                                    http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/



                                    • 15. FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                      jsteinmann Level 1
                                      who said anything about not understanding the code? I'm always interested in learning more about design. Enlighten me on how you design. Tell me the steps you recommend a designer taking.

                                      I like to design the front end in a graphic editor, slice it and export as html. From there you can us a web app like dreamweaver to create the rest of the front end, and all of the back end. What do you do... just import a few individual graphics onto the page your working on in dreamweaver? yeah, you can do it that way if you have a very simplified design, but talk about bad workflow. Much easier to mockup the entire layout first and then be finished with using the graphic editor for the rest of the design, then go back and forth for each graphic.

                                      Tell me your approach to this. I'd be interested to know.
                                      • 16. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                        Level 7
                                        jsteinmann wrote:

                                        > who said anything about now knowing the code? I'm always interested in
                                        > learning more about design. Enlighten me on how you design. Tell me the steps
                                        > you recommend a designer taking.
                                        >
                                        > I don't know any design studio that doesn't design their front end in a
                                        > graphic editor, slice it and export as html.

                                        The companies I subcontract to do the HTML separately. I mock up an
                                        entire page, or pages. Sometimes I export the images, and sometimes they
                                        do. In all cases, the images are exported without the HTML.

                                        > What do you do... just import a few individual graphics onto the page your
                                        > working on?

                                        A well designed layout doesn't require many images. Broadband
                                        penetration is under 50% worldwide, so it's still necessary to consider
                                        overall file size when designing Web pages.

                                        --
                                        Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
                                        --------------------------------------------------------------
                                        http://www.projectseven.com
                                        Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
                                        CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
                                        http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
                                        --------------------------------------------------------------
                                        • 17. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                          Level 7
                                          Alan wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> When did photoshop become archaic to use for web design?
                                          >
                                          > Not to use it, but to rely on it.
                                          >
                                          > The workflow of doing a design in ps, then slicing it up and generating html
                                          > from ps or imageready and using that html/css without knowing what it is or
                                          > means.
                                          >
                                          > it's okay for quick dirty jobs but it makes quick dirty pages.

                                          I think you're badly over generalizing. Creating a mockup in a graphics
                                          app first, slicing it and building the code later does not at all mean
                                          that the pages will be any more dirty than "designing" in HTML and CSS
                                          directly. Both processes can result in bad markup depending on who
                                          writes the code. The process itself is not to blame, the person building
                                          bad code is.

                                          Personally, I find that it makes a lot more sense to design the visuals
                                          of a site in a graphic app first where you are unhindered by technical
                                          constraints and have more freedom to express creativity and solve the
                                          client's business/communication problem by designing a good visual
                                          interface. This method also has the advantage of being far more flexible
                                          to make changes early in the process when dealing with revisions and
                                          client change requests. With Fireworks CS3's new pages feature, it's
                                          even easier than ever to create a functional prototype with pages
                                          linking to each other. I would never use that code on a production site
                                          but it gets the feel and flow of the site across to clients quickly
                                          while remaining far more flexible than a pure HTML/CSS prototype.

                                          I'm not saying that this is your case personally but a lot of people I
                                          see advocating going to code directly and looking down on the graphical
                                          mockup process are people who are much stronger technically and have
                                          less or no visual design ability. But the thing is, design is *both*
                                          form and function and designing in pure CSS more often than not yields
                                          visuals that are more boxy and rely more on the limitations of CSS and
                                          HTML. Going from a graphical mockup may mean that the final pages will
                                          use a bit more graphics but that certainly does not mean the code has to
                                          be either less valid or less semantic and that the page wight has to be
                                          too much for non-broadband users.

                                          I think the visual design created by a good designer in a graphic
                                          application has a better chance of communicating whatever needs to be
                                          communicated to users though. But in either cases, the success of the
                                          final result will depend on a good initial planning phase and on a
                                          designer who knows what they are doing. Both methods can yield
                                          successful results and neither is becoming archaic.

                                          --
                                          Stéphane Bergeron
                                          reach:connect:communicate
                                          www.webfocusdesign.com
                                          blog:tutorials:articles:gallery
                                          www.pixelyzed.com
                                          • 18. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                            Level 7
                                            "jsteinmann" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                            news:f11cbj$hoi$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            > When did photoshop become archaic to use for web design?

                                            The idea of comping a web site in Photoshop, in the ways discussed in
                                            this thread, not its use.

                                            --
                                            Al Sparber - PVII
                                            http://www.projectseven.com
                                            Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                            Authors: "42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design"

                                            • 19. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                              jsteinmann Level 1
                                              What does comping a web site in photoshop mean? I'm not sure what you're saying.
                                              • 20. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                                jsteinmann Level 1
                                                quote:

                                                Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                                Alan wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> When did photoshop become archaic to use for web design?
                                                >
                                                > Not to use it, but to rely on it.
                                                >
                                                > The workflow of doing a design in ps, then slicing it up and generating html
                                                > from ps or imageready and using that html/css without knowing what it is or
                                                > means.
                                                >
                                                > it's okay for quick dirty jobs but it makes quick dirty pages.

                                                I think you're badly over generalizing. Creating a mockup in a graphics
                                                app first, slicing it and building the code later does not at all mean
                                                that the pages will be any more dirty than "designing" in HTML and CSS
                                                directly. Both processes can result in bad markup depending on who
                                                writes the code. The process itself is not to blame, the person building
                                                bad code is.

                                                Personally, I find that it makes a lot more sense to design the visuals
                                                of a site in a graphic app first where you are unhindered by technical
                                                constraints and have more freedom to express creativity and solve the
                                                client's business/communication problem by designing a good visual
                                                interface. This method also has the advantage of being far more flexible
                                                to make changes early in the process when dealing with revisions and
                                                client change requests. With Fireworks CS3's new pages feature, it's
                                                even easier than ever to create a functional prototype with pages
                                                linking to each other. I would never use that code on a production site
                                                but it gets the feel and flow of the site across to clients quickly
                                                while remaining far more flexible than a pure HTML/CSS prototype.

                                                I'm not saying that this is your case personally but a lot of people I
                                                see advocating going to code directly and looking down on the graphical
                                                mockup process are people who are much stronger technically and have
                                                less or no visual design ability. But the thing is, design is *both*
                                                form and function and designing in pure CSS more often than not yields
                                                visuals that are more boxy and rely more on the limitations of CSS and
                                                HTML. Going from a graphical mockup may mean that the final pages will
                                                use a bit more graphics but that certainly does not mean the code has to
                                                be either less valid or less semantic and that the page wight has to be
                                                too much for non-broadband users.

                                                I think the visual design created by a good designer in a graphic
                                                application has a better chance of communicating whatever needs to be
                                                communicated to users though. But in either cases, the success of the
                                                final result will depend on a good initial planning phase and on a
                                                designer who knows what they are doing. Both methods can yield
                                                successful results and neither is becoming archaic.

                                                --
                                                Stéphane Bergeron
                                                reach:connect:communicate
                                                www.webfocusdesign.com
                                                blog:tutorials:articles:gallery
                                                www.pixelyzed.com




                                                I agree with you 100%. What does the end client see... the front end. What does the end client care about... the front end. What does the web surfer see.... the front end. If your design is not focused on creating a visually stunning design, then you're dead in the water going into the project. Just like you said, it's 50% of the project, and 90% of what people care about. I USE to design the other way... straight to Dreamweaver, make my tables, start importing some graphics onto the page as needed.... it's an OK approach for some work, but you usually end up with something overly simplified, boxy, and boreing. For some sites, that's exactly what you need. For others... not even close. It's like the difference between having a flash header or not. Why use a flash header... because it works really well to meet the front end needs. To give the site that wow factor. That's all designing and mocking up sites from a graphic editor and exporting does. It allows maximum front end creativity, and the whole "bad code" thing is very over dramatized (especially in fireworks).
                                                • 21. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                                  Level 7
                                                  "jsteinmann" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                  news:f12jbb$20s$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  > What does comping a web site in photoshop mean? I'm not sure what
                                                  > you're saying.

                                                  What I'm trying to say is that if you try to "draw" a web site in
                                                  Photoshop or Fireworks, without having a good grasp of markup and CSS,
                                                  the possibility is strong that what you'll wind up with is hard to
                                                  translate into clean, accessible, (x)HTML. It is the industry's version
                                                  of placing the cart before the horse.

                                                  --
                                                  Al Sparber - PVII
                                                  http://www.projectseven.com
                                                  Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                                  Authors: "42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design"


                                                  • 22. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                                    Level 7
                                                    jsteinmann wrote:
                                                    > Thank you for the great response, I really appreciate the time you spent to
                                                    > write that. I've always used fireworks for the dreamweaver prep work (like
                                                    > rollovers, slicing it up, etc.), and found it to be very useful program when
                                                    > you need to make some quick changes to a graphic. Didn't really have much
                                                    > trouble with Photoshop, a right mouse click getting you any layer you want to
                                                    > work with quickly, and pretty universally used as the main graphic editor among
                                                    > web designers I knew. The only thing that bothered me with Fireworks, and why
                                                    > I've avoided it for mockups to date (and especially to sell front end design
                                                    > templates to people), is that it doesn't work in PS if you need it to. In
                                                    > other words, I can always go from PS to FW and have all the layers there
                                                    > without much drama (pat on the back for Macromedia), but not the other way
                                                    > around if there was a special effect or something that was found only in PS...
                                                    > then you would be out of luck. Now that Adobe owns all of this, does PS CS3
                                                    > finally play nice with fireworks? how about dreamweaver and PS?
                                                    >

                                                    FW saves as PSD fairly well, but their are some glaring discrepancies.

                                                    FONTS - FW at this time dos not use the Adobe font engine, so there can
                                                    be problems with your fonts when they get into PS. Even if the font
                                                    transfers properly, PS insists on updating the fonts when the FW
                                                    generated PSD is opened.

                                                    Text attached to a path is another issue

                                                    FRAMES - Saving an FW PNG as PSD will discard all frames but frame 1

                                                    and now, with FW CS3, PAGES - PS CS3 doesn't understand the pages
                                                    feature, so you have to save each page as a separate PSD file.

                                                    While not perfect, Fireworks is much better at opening up PSD's created
                                                    in Photoshop. The dev team made some decent headway in that area,
                                                    although there is still more to do. Layer Effects are now supported in
                                                    FW (perhaps not as robustly as we would like, but it's a start)as are
                                                    all of the common blend modes you would find in PS. Hierarchical layers
                                                    are now also supported, so layer groups come into FW much better than
                                                    before.
                                                    --
                                                    Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                                    Extending Knowledge, Daily
                                                    http://www.communityMX.com/
                                                    CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                                    http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                                    ---
                                                    .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                                                    news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
                                                    news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver
                                                    • 23. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                                      jsteinmann Level 1
                                                      Thanks for confirming that. Like I said, I think fireworks is a great program. Very simple to use for the novice user designing front end compared to PS, and much better code when exporting html and easy for slicing your layers, but PS doesn't play nice with it yet which can cause problems (especially if you sell front end templates to people). If you mockup in PS, you can use PS or FW on your project. If you use FW for the mockup, you're stuck with just the program. Hopefully this is something Adboe will get worked out soon.
                                                      • 24. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                                        Level 1
                                                        Hi jsteinmann,

                                                        I am not sure what you meant by "stuck with just the program..."

                                                        Well, when you say you hope that Adobe work something out in Fw. Let me tell you that Fw CS3 is far better application than legacy version of Fireworks.

                                                        However, if you think you want to file a suggestion or feedback through Adobe feature or wishlist request form, you are strongly encouraged to do so.

                                                        Adobe Feature Request form
                                                        http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                                        Cheers, Brian

                                                        quote:

                                                        Originally posted by: jsteinmann
                                                        Thanks for confirming that. Like I said, I think fireworks is a great program. Very simple to use for the novice user designing front end compared to PS, and much better code when exporting html and easy for slicing your layers, but PS doesn't play nice with it yet which can cause problems (especially if you sell front end templates to people). If you mockup in PS, you can use PS or FW on your project. If you use FW for the mockup, you're stuck with just the program. Hopefully this is something Adboe will get worked out soon.


                                                        • 25. Re: FWCS3 - Mocking up front end design
                                                          Level 7
                                                          jsteinmann wrote:
                                                          > Thanks for confirming that. Like I said, I think fireworks is a great program.
                                                          > Very simple to use for the novice user designing front end compared to PS, and
                                                          > much better code when exporting html and easy for slicing your layers, but PS
                                                          > doesn't play nice with it yet which can cause problems (especially if you sell
                                                          > front end templates to people). If you mockup in PS, you can use PS or FW on
                                                          > your project. If you use FW for the mockup, you're stuck with just the
                                                          > program. Hopefully this is something Adboe will get worked out soon.
                                                          >
                                                          I'm not sure who you're responding to but in case it's me, I never
                                                          said you can't go back and forth. And you're certainly not "stuck" with
                                                          the program. There are limitations, but until this release the software
                                                          was owned by two separate companies, so I'm not surprised.

                                                          Frankly, there are so many reasons - productivity and creativity focused
                                                          - for me to use FW as my main front end design app. I certainly don't
                                                          find it limiting.

                                                          Great steps have already been taken and I am sure they will continue,
                                                          but even now, I can move my files back and forth without serious problems.

                                                          I don't tend to farm out my work as PSD's, but I do get PSD's from
                                                          clients and their suppliers. So having better FW support for PSD's is
                                                          great in my book.

                                                          Both PS and FW have their strengths and weaknesses, which I think many
                                                          of us in this thread have tried to communicate. In the end, though,
                                                          you're the one using the tools (and that is all they are - tools) so you
                                                          should use what you are most comfortable and productive with.

                                                          --
                                                          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                                          Extending Knowledge, Daily
                                                          http://www.communityMX.com/
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                                                          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
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