9 Replies Latest reply on Jul 18, 2014 2:14 AM by ChromaGuy

    Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??

    ChromaGuy Level 1

      This is a bit of a disaster but I have been learning to key using adobe after effects then use lightworks for a few other touches before using it to export as "Youtube" which I think is h.264?

       

      The videos come out low size great quality.. but then I uploaded them to Youtube and Vimeo, I literally had to delete every video because around the edges of the talent was a 2cm thick distortion like a blurred halo.. can't begin to guess why.

       

      Can anyone make any suggestions?

       

      Thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          WIthout seeing the footage and knowing your settings, nobody can say anything. You are losing your self in vague description while we don't even know what version of AE and how you create the key. Sorry, but this is pointless. There is a million things thar could be at work here like the video services re-compressing your stuff to unsuitable settings on your end resulting in Gamma shifts and other things...

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
            ChromaGuy Level 1

            Sorry using AE 12.2 and Keylight 1.2.

             

            We pretty much tried exporting in every format from adobe media encoder and tried other ones in Lightworks too.

             

            For example, we recorded a fitness trainer talking about classes and it looked ideal in media player, when uploaded to Vimeo it looked as though we we trying to make him look bigger or that he'd been tampered with due to the lines around his arms etc.

             

            Please see the image link, it shows the chroma key results in windows media player vs Vimeo, zoom by clicking it.

             

            http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img537/9297/f6984a.png

             

            If anyone has any suggestions in laymans terms would really appreciate it.

            • 3. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
              grantgomm Level 1

              When you export out of AE, how do you export?  do you use the render queue or export to media encoder?  Could you please explain your process?

               

              Also as I look at your pictures, it's not just around the edges of the trainer, but it looks like a very low res image.  look at his face, even look at the bikes and dumbbells in the BG.  What size does media player say the image is?  what about vimeo?  I know it might sound like an obvious question, but while you're viewing it in Vimeo, do you have the HD option checked?  To me it just looks like a low res image.

              • 4. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
                ChromaGuy Level 1

                Hi, thanks for replying.

                 

                When exporting frm AE Media Encoder I used nearly all available Vimeo / Youtube / H264 options to see if one would work - all were the exact same!

                 

                No, believe it or nt, HD makes it worse on Vimeo/Youtube because that horrible distortion is amplified and that photo is 720p Vimeo - 1080 is even worse.

                 

                Regards.

                • 5. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
                  Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  First,  if you do not send properly compressed files at the proper size to YouTube or Vimeo they will re-compress your video. Unless you have a premium account with Vimeo the highest resolution you can play is 720p. The proper workflow for uploading video to a streaming service is to do the following:

                  1. Design your project at the maximum resolution you will ever use for your project. Now days this means full HD (1920 X 1080) for most projects. USE THE PRESETS
                  2. Complete your project and either render a lossless or nearly lossless Digital Intermediate using a suitable production codec using the Render Cue from AE, or load your project into the Adobe Media Encoder directly, or include your project in a Premiere Pro project (PPro uses the AME for rendering), and then render your project for delivery or for archiving with a lossless or nearly lossless codec and delivery.
                  3. When rendering for delivery you must first verify the recommended data rates and formats, then choose the appropriate preset,  YouTube HD 720P 29.97 for example, and verify that the preset data rate is set to the maximum currently specified by your streaming service. The presets in the AME are set to the MINIMUM data rate for the streaming service that will give you acceptable results for most projects. Here's the point of this whole step - YOU MUST VERIFY
                  4. IF YOUR COMPOSITION frame size and frame rate do not match or exceed the frame size of the template you choose your video will suffer quality loss. For best results, if you want the best you can get from your Free Vimeo account your comp should be 720P, from YouTube, 1080p is the standard but they have higher resolutions available.
                  5. YOUR FRAME RATE must match when you render for delivery period. Any difference in frame rate between your original project and your delivery format will result in quality loss
                  6. NEVER set up a project with the render comp set to rectangular pixels because all current delivery formats are square pixels. This means no DV, DVCHD, DVCProHD frame sizes, no rectangular pixel projects rendered at those frame sizes.

                  Let's talk directly about your problem. Here's a section of the Vimeo frame at 800%

                  Screen Shot 2014-07-17 at 8.41.25 AM.png

                  Your bad edges are not limited to the keyed edge, they are everywhere. These are compression and/or resizing artifacts. The most likely cause is that the files you uploaded to Vimeo were not the right format or size and Vimeo resized and re-compressed them. The other thing that happens when you send Vimeo and YouTube a file is that their site starts building low rez copies of your file so they can stream at different resolutions. The low rez copy is the first one delivered. The higher rez copies take longer. Does your file look as bad after an hour or so with HD turned on in the Vimeo player?

                   

                  The best way to avoid these kinds of problems is to follow the workflow outlined above, and if you are delivering to Vimeo and you do not have a paid account, use the 720p preset that matches your frame rate and jack the data rate up to the currently recommended settings. You will find them here: Compression Guidelines on Vimeo

                   

                  If you don't send any of the streaming services exactly what they want, your original video will be recompressed and you will get what you get. It will not likely ever match the quality of the original.

                  • 6. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
                    grantgomm Level 1

                    Wow, that's a fantastic post Richard!

                     

                    "Your bad edges are not limited to the keyed edge, they are everywhere. These are compression and/or resizing artifacts. The most likely cause is that the files you uploaded to Vimeo were not the right format or size and Vimeo resized and re-compressed them. The other thing that happens when you send Vimeo and YouTube a file is that their site starts building low rez copies of your file so they can stream at different resolutions. The low rez copy is the first one delivered. The higher rez copies take longer. Does your file look as bad after an hour or so with HD turned on in the Vimeo player?"

                     

                    That's exactly what I was wondering.

                    • 7. Re: Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
                      ChromaGuy Level 1

                      Thanks, very educational replies, have benefited me and will benefits others who search for answers online.

                       

                      I spent the last few hours doing an experiment. I decided to upload the footage without ANY keying - just from the camera and through media encoder - the footage was STILL DISTORTED.

                       

                      So I went onto Youtube, found and downloaded a perfect video by somebody else and brought it into after efforts to export for Youtube and re-uploaded it.. it was distorted!!

                       

                      Check this out!

                      http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img537/6448/418aa6.png

                      CLOSE UP: http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img746/8972/6ae855.png

                       

                      So it's not my camera not my chroma keying, something is happening during export in Adobe media encoder even though I tried numerous export options.

                       

                      I ran "MediaInfo" over that other guys "perfect" Youtube video and then all mine.

                       

                      There is something below causing all of this!!!

                       

                      1 - Details of guys video on Youtube that was perfect.

                      Format                                  : MPEG-4

                      Format profile                          : Base Media / Version 2

                      Codec ID                                : mp42

                      File size                                : 43.8 MiB

                      Duration                                : 2mn 34s

                      Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

                      Overall bit rate                        : 2 371 Kbps

                      Encoded date                            : UTC 2014-07-07 15:07:03

                      Tagged date                              : UTC 2014-07-07 15:07:03

                      gsst                                    : 0

                      gstd                                    : 154968

                      gssd                                    : BADC28AA5MH1405615267935032

                      gshh                                    : r20---sn-q0c7dn7k.googlevideo.com

                       

                       

                      Video

                      ID                                      : 1

                      Format                                  : AVC

                      Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

                      Format profile                          : High@L3.1

                      Format settings, CABAC                  : Yes

                      Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame

                      Codec ID                                : avc1

                      Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

                      Duration                                : 2mn 34s

                      Bit rate                                : 2 224 Kbps

                      Maximum bit rate                        : 4 387 Kbps

                      Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

                      Height                                  : 720 pixels

                      Display aspect ratio                    : 16:9

                      Frame rate mode                          : Constant

                      Frame rate                              : 29.970 fps

                      Color space                              : YUV

                      Chroma subsampling                      : 4:2:0

                      Bit depth                                : 8 bits

                      Scan type                                : Progressive

                      Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                      : 0.081

                      Stream size                              : 41.1 MiB (94%)

                      Tagged date                              : UTC 2014-07-07 15:07:04

                       

                       

                      Audio

                      ID                                      : 2

                      Format                                  : AAC

                      Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

                      Format profile                          : LC

                      Codec ID                                : 40

                      Duration                                : 2mn 34s

                      Bit rate mode                            : Variable

                      Bit rate                                : 144 Kbps

                      Maximum bit rate                        : 150 Kbps

                      Channel(s)                              : 1 channel

                      Channel positions                        : Front: C

                      Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz

                      Compression mode                        : Lossy

                      Stream size                              : 2.66 MiB (6%)

                      Title                                    : IsoMedia File Produced by Google, 5-11-2011

                      Encoded date                            : UTC 2014-07-07 15:07:04

                      Tagged date                              : UTC 2014-07-07 15:07:04

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      Details of my upload which was distorted!

                      Format                                  : MPEG-4

                      Format profile                          : Base Media / Version 2

                      Codec ID                                : mp42

                      File size                                : 12.2 MiB

                      Duration                                : 14s 955ms

                      Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

                      Overall bit rate                        : 6 845 Kbps

                      Encoded date                            : UTC 2014-07-17 16:43:27

                      Tagged date                              : UTC 2014-07-17 16:43:27

                       

                       

                      Video

                      ID                                      : 2

                      Format                                  : AVC

                      Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

                      Format profile                          : High@L4.1

                      Format settings, CABAC                  : Yes

                      Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames

                      Codec ID                                : avc1

                      Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

                      Duration                                : 14s 933ms

                      Bit rate mode                            : Variable

                      Bit rate                                : 6 693 Kbps

                      Maximum bit rate                        : 8 000 Kbps

                      Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

                      Height                                  : 720 pixels

                      Display aspect ratio                    : 16:9

                      Frame rate mode                          : Constant

                      Frame rate                              : 30.000 fps

                      Standard                                : NTSC

                      Color space                              : YUV

                      Chroma subsampling                      : 4:2:0

                      Bit depth                                : 8 bits

                      Scan type                                : Progressive

                      Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                      : 0.242

                      Stream size                              : 11.9 MiB (98%)

                      Language                                : English

                      Encoded date                            : UTC 2014-07-17 16:43:27

                      Tagged date                              : UTC 2014-07-17 16:43:27

                      Color primaries                          : BT.709

                      Transfer characteristics                : BT.709

                      Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

                       

                       

                      Audio

                      ID                                      : 1

                      Format                                  : AAC

                      Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

                      Format profile                          : LC

                      Codec ID                                : 40

                      Duration                                : 14s 955ms

                      Bit rate mode                            : Variable

                      Bit rate                                : 157 Kbps

                      Maximum bit rate                        : 185 Kbps

                      Channel(s)                              : 2 channels

                      Channel positions                        : Front: L R

                      Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz

                      Compression mode                        : Lossy

                      Stream size                              : 286 KiB (2%)

                      Language                                : English

                      Encoded date                            : UTC 2014-07-17 16:43:27

                      Tagged date                              : UTC 2014-07-17 16:43:27

                      • 8. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
                        Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Are you using the the YouTube preset and jacking up the data rate to about 20?

                        Screen Shot 2014-07-17 at 11.08.17 AM.png

                        The YouTube compression info: Advanced encoding settings - YouTube Help

                         

                        How does your file look before uploading? If it looks good and the data rate is where you expect it, but your YouTube file is at a lower data rate then you did not supply with a video that was to their standards and the system re-encoded it Also, you have to give YouTube time to deliver the highest quality. They put up their downscaled version first. You also must make sure that you enable hq playback in your YouTube settings.

                        • 9. Re: Chromakey footage looks TERRIBLE after upload but perfect in media player??
                          ChromaGuy Level 1

                          Quick update:

                           

                          Interesting what happened!...

                          All this hassle was caused by my PC screen (external monitor). Suddenly when I got to my laptop the footage is perfect.

                          Now I'm more confused than ever. The footage is PERFECT on the PC monitor in Windows Media Player but awful on Youtube.. yet other peoples videos on Youtube look fine.