9 Replies Latest reply on Jul 31, 2014 8:45 PM by A.T. Romano

    Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)

    jvc-mv

      Hello- using PE 9:  Problem is bad quality finished movie once burned to a DVD when played on computer or on DVD player on TV.  Finished movie was made from clips captured from previous DVD files orig. recorded in 4:3 ratio, NTSC, Standard format, 29 fps.  Made sure everything was set up as input and output being the same from beginning to end of project when using Adobe PE 9, but I could be missing something. 

       

      When finished project is saved as an MPEG to the computer (when using the Share menu section selection:  "Use for playback on this computer or for burning to DVD"), playback is fine both on different computers, and when burn that same file to a DVD, and viewed on the computers it is fine (but won't play on regular DVD player for some reason- however usually the quality shows the same when viewed on computer and TV.  Also you loose your Disc Menu's you hoped to have on the finished disc when you go this route, but that's a diff. topic for later).

       

      But the point is, soon as it's burned from the other Share menu section named "Disc-DVD", to a DVD, (regardless if I select "fit to available space", select as high quality or not;  then burn to a 8.5GB/4.7GB folder on the computer, then burn to a DVD w/ a different DVD burning program;  or burn straight to the DVD from the same Share menu section, the color is faded, movements in the movie are jittery and very low quality, etc.  We all know that you loose some quality when burned to a DVD & shown on a TV, but this is an extreme loss of quality.

       

      The computer is fast enough- Win 7 is used.  Tried regular DVD's -/+'s, RW's, freed up computer space, etc., no difference.  Used Windows Movie Maker Live w/ same uploaded original clips, editing, etc., and the finished movie quality comes out fine when burned directly to DVD.

       

      So something is not adjusted right, working right w/ the DVD part in Adobe.  If you need more preference settings info let me know.    Many thanks.

        • 1. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          jvc-mv

           

          Adobe offers disc menus for only burn to disc (Share/Disc/DVD or Blu-ray), with the one exception being webDVD which is really a flash file which can use the disc menu themes.

           

          Your source media are

          DVD files orig. recorded in 4:3 ratio, NTSC, Standard format, 29 fps

          Are you confirming that these files are 720 x 480 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second?

          If so, your project preset = NTSC DV Standard and your Share/Disc/DVD disc preset = NTSC_Dolby DVD would be appropriate.

           

          What is the duration of your Timeline content?

           

          When you get to Share/Disc/DVD disc, what does the burn dialog show in the Quality area for Space Required and Bitrate with a

          check mark next to "Fit Content to Available Space"? Are you doing the burn (or burn to folder) with a check mark next to "Fit

          Content to Available Space"?

           

          We do need to explore what you wrote about your Share/Computer/MPEG export

          when burn that same file to a DVD, and viewed on the computers it is fine (but won't play on regular DVD player for some reason-

           

          How did you burn the "same file" MPEG to a DVD disc? Did you have a mpeg file burned to a DVD disc (data disc) or the mpeg file converted to DVD-VIDEO format on DVD disc?

           

          Please review and consider. Then we can plan appropriate troubleshooting strategy.

           

          Thank you.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
            jvc-mv Level 1

            Thank you for your reply.  The following information hope helps (sorry if some things are repeated, but it's typed out mostly per what is shown per menu selected.  I left out most of the audio info below that I figured wasn't ness.):

             

            *Source Files used to upload to Adobe to edit, etc. properties show:

             

            .VOB, 720 H x 480 V, 9558 kbps, 9814 kbps total, 29 fps
            ------------------

            Then as in Adobe PE9:


            *PROJECT SETTINGS:
            -GENERAL:

            -edit mode= DV NTSC, 29.97 fps
            ---------------
            -playback= external device- DV 29.97, 720 x 480i,
            -aspect hardware conversion= external device, 24p conversion method= interlaced 2:3:3:2
            -export= DV 29.97  720x480i
            -----------------
            -video= 720 h x 480 v
            -pixel aspect= D1/DV NTSC .9091
            -Lower Fields First
            -Display= 30 fps drop-frame time code

             

            -CAPTURE: DV

             

            -VID RENDER:

             

            -Max Depth =(NOT check boxed, but I checked another time seemed to not make a differnece)
            -Preview= Microsoft AVI DV NTSC
            -Compressor= DV NTSC
            -Optimize Stills (IS check boxed)
            ---------------

             

            PREFERENCES:

             

            -preroll= 2 seconds, postroll= 2 secs
            -video transition default duration= 30 frames

             

            -DEVICE CONTROL= DV/HDV Device Control
            -preroll= 2 secs
            -timecode offset= 0

             

            -----------
            Then when SHARING as: to Computer, selected MPEG ("use for playback on this computer or burning to DVD")

             

            -preset= ntsc dvd standard
            -file type= mpeg2-dvd
            -frame= 720 x 480
            -frame rate= 29.97 fps
            tv standard= ntsc
            (in advanced:  export settings= ntsc dvd standard, mpeg2-dvd,

             

            Summary shows:  output:  ntsc, 720x480, 29.97 fps, quality 3.0, lower dolby digital, 192 kbps, 48 hz, VBR, 1 pass, min 1.50, target 6.00, max 8.00 mbps

             

            Source:  clip, sequence 01, 720x480, .9091, 29.97 fps, lower, 01;04;49;05, 48000 hz, stereo)

             

            -video settings: codec= mainconcept mpeg video, quality (Max), tv standard ntsc, 720x480, 29.97 fps, display format= drop frame, field order= lower, pixel aspect= standard 4:3 (.909), render at max depth NOT check boxed

             

            -GOP= M frames= 3, N frames = 5

             

            note--When I shared the finished project this way, this is where it saved to a DVD and it played great on the computer, but wouldn't play in a regular DVD player.
            ---------------------
              
            When I SHARED it thru DISC- DVD menu, the settings were:

             

            -DVD

             

            -burn to= disc (I also tried it to folder 4.7 gig and 8.5, then burned to DVD w/ windows 7 dvd burner, and the qualoty still was bad.)

             

            -presets:  ntsc_dolbyDVD

             

            -fit contents to  available space IS check boxed (I also tried it UNCHECK boxed and quaility was still the same.  As UNCHECKED, the bar was moved to highest quality.)
            ----------------
            -You asked about:

             

            *Duration- shows about 1 hour 4 mins

             

            *When I go to share/disc/dvd disc, it only says "quality" and "fit contents to avail. space", and bar to move to most video or max quality, but doesn't say "Bitrate" or "Space Required".  I tried different varieations of these in this menu, with same poor quality results, regardless if I burned to folder or straight to DVD.  But I could try whatever you suggest again to double-check the results.

             

            *As far as the burning the "same file" MPEG to a DVD disc... I shared it to the computer first thru share/computer/MPEG ("use for playback on this computer or burning to DVD"), saved to computer, then used Windows DVD maker to put on DVD as noted above, but it may have been saved to the disc as a data file accidentally instead of as dvd-video;  and could be the reason why it would not play in a regular dvd player, but would play on the computer, during that type of share.

             

            Hope that all makes sense.  Any additional info, ideas, questions, let me know and thanks again for your help.

            • 3. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              jvc-mv

               

              Thanks for the additional information.

               

              Would it be possible to do and post a screen capture (freeze frame jpeg) of what you are seeing as poor quality for your DVD-VIDEO standard export?

               

              It would appear that you are inputting NTSC MPEG2.VOB 4:3 file and exporting as MPEG.VOB 4:3 in the DVD-VIDEO Structure.

              If you have not done so already, please consider:

               

              When a source .vob file is on the Timeline, right click that file and select Field Options. In the Field Options dialog, try each of the

              following one at a time

              Reverse Field Dominance

              Always Deinterlace

              and then determine if this has any impact on the quality of the end product, be it MPEG2.mpg file or MPEG2.vob with the DVD-VIDEO structure.

               

              Thanks.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
                jvc-mv Level 1

                Hello, sorry for the delay.   Thanks again for your help.  I did as you suggested- Right Click on Timeline, then Field Options, then selected the different selections below, then Share/Disc/DVD/Highest Quality setting (not "fit contents to available space", and burned in Lower Field as Adobe's unchangeable default whenever you burn straight to Disc-DVD).

                 

                The different selections in Right Click Timeline, Field Options are as follows:

                 

                --Reverse Field Dominance only= best (but for some reason now whenever this alone is selected regardless whatever else is selected w/ it, it makes the picture grainy)

                 

                --Always Deinterlace only= below best but ok, with slight flutter in lettering and details (such as on sides of railroad cars in motion)

                 

                --Always Deinterlace with Reverse Field Dom= was about the same just Always Deinterlace only, but now anytime Reverse Field Dom. is selected, it makes the whole picture grainy)

                 

                --None of these selected= (in defualt Lower Field Order) really bad as before, clear but a lot of fluttering in lettering, details, etc..

                -------------------------------

                Then:

                 

                --None of these selected on Timeline, but burn as Share/Computer/MPEG/Advance/Video/Field Order to Upper, then burn to DVD using Windows DVD Maker= picture is excellent (but for some reason Win DVD Maker made the picture look square w/ black spaces on the sides instead of standard.)

                 

                 

                Some questions:

                * Any idea why now whenever Reverse Field Dominance is selected, it makes the picture more grainy?  When it is de-selected, it becomes more clear again.  Is it everytime it is switched back and forth it "adds onto" the picture and leaves it there?

                 

                 

                * Why does Adobe PE9 not allow you to select the Field Order when in Share/Disc/DVD?  (It for sure allows it in Share/Computer/MPEG/Advance, etc.)

                 

                 

                * If it comes to the best picture is by adjusting the parameters as needed and burning as Share/Computer/MPEG, then burn to a DVD w/ a seperate DVD burning program, do you know of a good and free DVD burning program for Win 7 by chance,  that preferrably allows one to add Menus, a lot of Markers, w/ enough good options, etc. (Windows DVD Maker for Win 7 is limited and won't allow you to add as many markers as you want nor wherever you want).

                 

                 

                * In the Advanced tab in Share/Computer/MPEG/Advance Settings/Video, does the "Render at Maximun Field Depth" selection box really do anything?

                 

                 

                * Do any of the other Premier elements versions allow you to change the Field Order when in Share/Disc/DVD mode (why they make "Lower" the default no matter what you try to select at the very beginning of the Project settings makes no sense).

                 

                 

                Ok, hopefully this info helps, many thanks again for your input and help.

                • 5. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  jvc-mv

                   

                  Lots of details to go through.

                   

                  1. With regard to your burn to DVD-VIDEO using the Premiere Elements MPEG file and the computer's Windows DVD Maker....

                  I suspect that you did not set the Windows DVD Maker Options/DVD Aspect Ratio to 4:3 or 16:9 to correspond with the aspect ratio

                  of the MPEG file.

                   

                  dvdmaker.JPG

                  Click on Options to set the DVD Options/DVD Aspect Ration to either 4:3 or 16:9 to agree with the aspect ratio of the MPEG file.

                  What did you use for Presets when you went Share/Computer/MPEG?

                   

                  2. With regard to excellent DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc when the workflow included

                  • Premiere Elements interlaced MPEG file export with Field Order = Upper Field First instead of Lower Field First and
                  • then burning that to DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc with Windows DVD Maker......

                   

                  This is important to sort out since it points to your poor DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc results as interlacing issue.

                  a. What was the scan order of the interlaced video that you imported into Premiere Elements - Upper Field First or Lower Field First? And what project preset did you use?

                  b. What was your setting for Presets under Share/Computer/MPEG where you changed the Advanced area field order from lower to upper field first?.

                   

                  I believe that the answer resides in the fact that Window DVD Maker is giving you a DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc using interlaced frame rate with Field Order = Upper Field First. This is not possible for Premiere Elements to do since it adheres to the classical standard for DVD-VIDEO, interlaced video Lower Field First.


                  Nonetheless, In theory, you should be able to get excellent results in the Premiere Elements Share/Disc/DVD disc if you apply Field Option Reverse Field Dominance to the Timeline video prior to the burn to (alternatively, you could use one of the special Hard Drive Flash Memory Camcorders project presets). No MPEG intermediate - no burn to disc with Windows DVD Maker.

                   

                  Are you OK with the concept of Interlaced video and the fields that characterize each frame?

                   

                  Please review and consider the above.

                   

                  More later.

                   

                  Thanks.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
                    jvc-mv Level 1

                    Hello again.  My answers to your questions are in **[[  ]]'s shown below:

                     

                    1. With regard to your burn to DVD-VIDEO using the Premiere Elements MPEG file and the computer's

                     

                    Windows DVD Maker....I suspect that you did not set the Windows DVD Maker Options/DVD Aspect Ratio to 4:3 or 16:9 to

                    correspond with the aspect ratio of the MPEG file.

                     

                    https://forums.adobe.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-6584458-656627/450-456/dvdmak er.JPG

                     

                    Click on Options to set the DVD Options/DVD Aspect Ration to either 4:3 or 16:9 to agree with the

                    aspect ratio of the MPEG file.

                     

                    What did you use for Presets when you went Share/Computer/MPEG?

                     

                    **[[I'm pretty sure it was Standard 4:3, NTSC, Drop Frame, Upper Field First, highest quality]]

                     

                     

                    2. With regard to excellent DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc when the workflow included

                    Premiere Elements interlaced MPEG file export with Field Order = Upper Field First instead of

                    Lower Field First and then burning that to DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc with Windows DVD Maker......

                     

                    This is important to sort out since it points to your poor DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc results as interlacing issue.

                     

                    a. What was the scan order of the interlaced video that you imported into Premiere Elements - Upper

                    Field First or Lower Field First? And what project preset did you use?

                     

                    **[[the video file added to PE9 originally shows it as "Top field first"- please see info below, and

                    let me know if there is anything else in the media info that may be clashing w/ PE9 prefrences:


                    ORIGINAL FILE/MEDIA CLIP uploaded to PE9 to be edited then burned to DVD media info:

                     

                    General

                    Complete name                  : VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB

                    Format                         : MPEG-PS

                    File size                      : 1 024 MiB

                    Duration                       : 15mn 7s

                    Overall bit rate mode          : Variable

                    Overall bit rate               : 9 470 Kbps

                     

                    Video

                    ID                             : 224 (0xE0)

                    Format                         : MPEG Video

                    Format version                 : Version 2

                    Format profile                 : Main@Main

                    Format settings, BVOP          : Yes

                    Format settings, Matrix        : Custom

                    Format settings, GOP           : M=3, N=15

                    Duration                       : 15mn 6s

                    Bit rate mode                  : Variable

                    Bit rate                       : 9 026 Kbps

                    Maximum bit rate               : 9 558 Kbps

                    Width                          : 720 pixels

                    Height                         : 480 pixels

                    Display aspect ratio           : 4:3

                    Frame rate                     : 29.970 fps

                    Standard                       : NTSC

                    Color space                    : YUV

                    Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0

                    Bit depth                      : 8 bits

                    Scan type                      : Interlaced

                    Scan order                     : Top Field First

                    Compression mode               : Lossy

                    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.871

                    Time code of first frame       : 00:30:03:00

                    Time code source               : Group of pictures header

                    Stream size                    : 976 MiB (95%)

                    Color primaries                : BT.601 NTSC

                    Transfer characteristics       : BT.601

                    Matrix coefficients            : BT.601    ]]

                     

                     

                    b. What was your setting for Presets under Share/Computer/MPEG where you changed the Advanced area

                    field order from lower to upper field first?.

                     

                    **[[I'm sure it was the Standard 4:3, NTSC, Drop Frame, Upper Field First, highest quality]]

                     

                     

                    I believe that the answer resides in the fact that Window DVD Maker is giving you a DVD-VIDEO on DVD

                    disc using interlaced frame rate with Field Order = Upper Field First. This is not possible for Premiere Elements to do since it adheres to the classical standard for DVD-VIDEO, interlaced video Lower Field First.

                     

                    Nonetheless, In theory, you should be able to get excellent results in the Premiere Elements Share/Disc/DVD disc if you apply Field Option Reverse Field Dominance to the Timeline video prior to the burn to (alternatively, you could use one of the special Hard Drive Flash Memory Camcorders project presets). No MPEG intermediate - no burn to disc with Windows DVD Maker.

                     

                    **[[Yes, when selecting Reverse Field Dominance, while right-clicking each scene in Timeline, in Field

                    Options (even tho having to right click every single seperate scene in order to do this can be time-

                    consuming & a lot of clicking), then Share/Disc/DVD & burn, it comes out normal-good quality.  


                    And yes it would make sense to then just try the different preset in the begining of a new project, w/

                    the Upper Field First default.  So I tried that,  selecting in the beginning of a new project "HD

                    Flash Memory Camcorders, NTSC Standard 4:3" project presets (which has default Upper Field First), and

                    when Adobe PE shows the warning that the uploaded clip format does not match the presets selected, I

                    selected NO when it asks to match.  Picture seemed ok when playing on the preview section in PE9. 

                    Then Share/Disc/DVD burn in high quality, the results were:  it turned out very poor w/ fluttering on

                    details, etc. in finished movie.   Also did the same in another new project, but clicked YES to have

                    PE9 match the proper media format, seemed to play ok in preiview screen in PE9, but soon as I

                    Shared/Disc/DVD highest quality, it had same poor results.  Notice that soon as I burned to DVD, Adobe

                    changed it to Lower Field First for some reason.  Media info shown below of that trial:

                     

                    General

                    Complete name                    : VTS_01_1.VOB

                    Format                           : MPEG-PS

                    File size                        : 319 MiB

                    Duration                         : 5mn 28s

                    Overall bit rate                 : 8 142 Kbps

                     

                    Video

                    ID                               : 224 (0xE0)

                    Format                           : MPEG Video

                    Format version                   : Version 2

                    Format profile                   : Main@Main

                    Format settings, BVOP            : Yes

                    Format settings, Matrix          : Default

                    Format settings, GOP             : M=3, N=15

                    Duration                         : 5mn 28s

                    Bit rate mode                    : Variable

                    Bit rate                         : 7 808 Kbps

                    Width                            : 720 pixels

                    Height                           : 480 pixels

                    Display aspect ratio             : 4:3

                    Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps

                    Standard                         : NTSC

                    Color space                      : YUV

                    Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0

                    Bit depth                        : 8 bits

                    Scan type                        : Interlaced

                    Scan order                       : Bottom Field First

                    Compression mode                 : Lossy

                    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.754

                    Stream size                      : 305 MiB (96%)  ]]

                     

                     

                     

                    Are you OK with the concept of Interlaced video and the fields that characterize each frame?

                     

                    **[[It appears that in the media info pasted (at the beginning of this post

                    above) of the original uploaded clip used to edit on PE9 is interlaced.  So should it stay interlaced

                    in PE 9?]]

                     

                     

                    **[[Also, was wanting your opinion:  is it advised to save my newly edited finished movie from PE9 to

                    a removeable hard drive as an AVI or MPEG file, for future professional burned to DVD discs copies

                    when I need them in the future?  Thanks again for your help.]]

                     

                     

                    Please review and consider the above.

                     

                    More later.

                    • 7. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                      jvc-mv

                       

                      Thanks for the update and the details.

                       

                      Premiere Elements (any version) uses the usual specifications for the DVD-VIDEO structure, including the Field Order of Lower (Bottom) Field First for its interlaced video. If your video file VOB uses the Field Order of Upper (Top) Field First and there are problems in Premiere Elements, then at the Timeline level use the Field Options/Reverse Field Dominance (sometimes Always Deinterlace is an alternative to look at).

                       

                      If you would like to make copies of the DVD-VIDEO project at a later date, there are several possibilities....

                       

                      a. Burn to Folder and save the folder from that process to a computer hard drive location. When you want to make copies, open that saved folder, and take only the VIDEO_TS Folder to DVD-VIDEO video on DVD disc in 3rd party software such as ImgBurn. (Some prefer to include with the VIDEO_TS Folder a AUDIO_TS Folder which is created on the desktop by creating a new empty folder and naming it AUDIO_TS.)

                      How to burn a DVD Folder with ImgBurn - AfterDawn: Guides

                       

                      b. You can archive the project, using the Premiere Elements Project Archiver Archive Project or Copy Project options. But, there can be special considerations when you archive a project which includes disc menus and then plan to open the archived project on another computer. I will be publishing a blog post on this type of matter later today.

                       

                      c. The choice that I go with to make multiple copies of a DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc is using the first DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc and the exact copy feature of the software that came with the DVD burner.

                       

                      d. The Premiere Elements burn to area has an option to make multiple copies of the Timeline content as DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc, one after another.

                      But, typically I get into problems with more than 2 or 3 copies using that approach.

                       

                      Please review and consider and then let me know if you are OK with the details.

                       

                      Thanks.

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
                        jvc-mv Level 1

                        Hello, 

                         

                        I found that if I save to the computer (Share/Computer/MPEG), then want to burn to disc later, then all of my menus & scene markers are lost, and I would have to rely on another DVD burning program to have menus on the DVD.  So using PE Archiver will help save those menus to burn copies at a later date?  Also was wondering if you can send the link to your blog post about that when you get a chance.

                         

                         

                        I looked over ImgBurn- does that 3rd party software allow menus and markers to be made by chance?

                         

                         

                        Other than those questions that I had, your answers have helped a lot.  Many thanks.

                        • 9. Re: Quality of finished movie is horrible when saved & burned as DVD (Adobe PE 9)
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          jvc-mv

                           

                          Thanks for the reply.

                           

                          This is the link to the blog post that I published earlier this evening on Project Archiver and archiving project which include disc menus.

                          ATR Premiere Elements Troubleshooting: PE12: Archiving Projects With Disc Menus

                           

                          The major issue is if your are going to transfer the archived project to another computer and the high potential for your disc menu gone. Although the blog post was demo'd with Premiere Elements 12/12.1, the principles remain the same for Premiere Elements 9.0/9.0.1.

                           

                          Please let me know if you need clarification on anything written in the blog post or in this reply.

                           

                          Premiere Elements menus are for the burn to end products not export to file save to computer hard drive. Exception..webDVD which is in reality a flash file with menus.

                           

                          As far as I have ever seen, ImgBurn does not have any menu creating features, and it does not "author" to DVD-VIDEO. Rather it can take already produced DVD-VIDEO structure (VIDEO_TS Folder) and put it on a disc in the current DVD disc file system.

                           

                          If you have access to Windows DVD Maker, you might explore its authoring the MPEG to DVD-VIDEO and supplying disc menus in the process.

                           

                          Please review and then we can evaluate we were are on this issue.

                           

                          Thank you.


                          ATR