13 Replies Latest reply on Jul 22, 2014 11:34 AM by areohbee

    How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?

    jamoroki
      • I understand how to delete a file permanently from my hard drive via LR but I want to know if LR also deletes it from a backup external HD?
      • I am also not clear regarding what happens to a processed RAW file or merged files (HDR). Is it automatically saved as a TIF on the HD's specified which can then be used later to export as a JPEG?
      • If 2 is correct then, as TIF's are as big as RAW's, once all RAW's are processed presumably the HD's storage space is halved. Is that correct?
      • What do you do with the JPEG's produced for export?
        • 1. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
          areohbee Level 5

          There is no copy of a processed raw file until you export it.

           

          If you *publish* a raw file as jpeg, it typically stays where you published it until you "un-publish" it.

          If you export a raw file as jpeg, it is often for temporary purposes, and so is deleted after "consumption", but can be saved for longer (e.g. forever) if you want - for instance: some people add them back to the catalog.

           

          Note: Lr does not track 2nd-copy "backup" files, so if you want lean backups, I recommend deleting *all* (or at least older) 2nd copy backups after making a real backup (of keepers).

           

          PS - tiffs are typically MUCH bigger than the raw files - experiment, and see for yourself.

           

          Cheers,

          Rob

          • 2. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
            jamoroki Level 1

            Thank you for replying Rob.

             

            I have been following Julieanne Kost and Terry White's tutorials which I

            think are very good.

             

            Julieanne sent me here and now I am more confused than I was before.

             

            I'll have to have a re-think because I don't understand what you are saying.

             

            But I thank you for your trying to help.

             

            regards

             

            James

             

             

            Blog:  http://www.jamoroki.com

             

             

             

            James King

            about.me/jamoroki

              <http://about.me/jamoroki>

            • 3. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
              JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              If you have used the option to create a second copy on a backup drive (in the import screen) it becomes your responsibility to manage those backup files. Lightroom does not keep track of them. They are not part of the catalog. You decide what needs to be done with them and if they need to be backed up again.

               

               

              Regarding your second point, I think you are talking about when images are sent to Photoshop for HDR processing, or raw files are sent to Photoshop for further processing. Whatever you have done to your files in Lightroom remains in place. A copy is sent to Photoshop for further processing. Once that image is open in Photoshop it is no longer raw image data. If you have current versions of Photoshop and Lightroom, when you finish your Photoshop processing the results are saved as a TIF or PSD file. You decide which file type will be saved in your Lightroom preferences. So, yes that does require a lot of extra hard disk space. But I usually retain both the original raw file as well as the TIF.  If your version of Photoshop and Camera Raw are older than your version of Lightroom, then the TIF or PSD file is created first and includes all of your Lightroom adjustments. That file is what will be opened in Photoshop or whatever external editor you are using.

               

               

              As far as JPEG's are concerned, I only create them if I need them for e-mail or to send to a lab to be printed. Personally, I don't see any reason for creating JPEG images as "final" copies of letters files. I create them for their purpose, and then once they have been used for that purpose they are deleted. That way, I only have the original raw file to be concerned with, or the TIF if I had to send the image to Photoshop for additional word. I don't consider having a big library of JPEG images of any value.

               

              You need to read Rob's reply again because he has given you good information. I am not trying to correct him in any way. I have only replied because you indicated that you didn't understand yet. Perhaps with replies from to of us we can help you understand what is happening.

              • 4. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Some years and many versions ago, LR corrupted files for some people as they were being imported.  This occurred because LR was updating metadata in the raw file, itself, correcting the date taken by adding a timezone or something, and didn't do the update correctly, leaving the raw file in a state where it couldn't be worked with.  This was one of only two times that a bug in LR was corrected in a couple weeks, rather than waiting the normal 3.5 months for a normal update cycle.  As a result of this issue LR added a preference to the catalog settings to give users a choice about whether to update this date in the raw file or not.  There hasn't been another instance of LR messing up this date that I'm aware of but the preference makes people feel comfortable that they can control whether LR will touch their raw files or not during the import process. 

                 

                Think about the 2nd-copy-during-import backup as being a second temporary safeguard against LR doing something bad to the raw files as you import or work with them, but not a permanent backup solution.  Normally you never need it but its there just in case.  Other instances where it comes in handy is when your hard-drive is failing and raw files start to spontaneously corrupt as the sectors go bad.  Having this second copy means you can likely copy the original raw file from somewhere else.  It also safeguards against accidentally deleting a photo you didn't mean to.  Any recovery done using this 2nd-copy-during-import would be by hand, file by file.

                 

                As Jim suggests LR doesn't do anything with those files after making a second copy so it's up to you what to do with them and what he says about deleting them after you've finished your work.  Lightroom is not a comprehensive backup utility, so it makes sense to do your own backups using whatever process you normally would for your images and LR catalog, which hopefully includes at least two copies of everything, somewhere, in case the original or backup media fails at some point in the future you have another copy.

                 

                Personally, I don't use the 2nd-copy-during-import backup at all.  I copy my files outside of LR using Windows Explorer drag-and-drop, and so I can work with LR on two different computers in different locations, I keep my catalog and images on a USB-attached external hard-drive, which can easily be dropped or lost or stolen, so at least every night or sometimes more than once a day, I update any changes from that working HD to an identical 2nd external HD, using a little utility that copies things that have different dates or different sizes but skips things that are unchanged.  If I had my images on an internal HD, I'd probably do the same sort of copy-changed-files-to-an-external-HD, but just for my pictures and catalog folders.  This makes the backup quick if I haven't done much, and not too slow even if I have added a lot of new photos.  The external HD holds about a year's worth of work.  When it gets close to full I export the oldest part of my catalog to a new catalog and move the corresponding picture files to another hard-drive that I have docked in a hard-drive dock, and replicate this drive to another docked hard-drive, so I have two copies of my archived files before I remove them from the working HD.

                • 5. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                  areohbee Level 5

                  jamoroki wrote:

                   

                  Thank you for replying Rob.

                   

                  now I am more confused than I was before.

                  Dunno how much Jim Hess's and ssprengel's replies helped clarify, but this sort of confusion often stems from not understanding how Lightroom works under the hood:

                   

                  Think of food - the raw file is like the raw ingredients - the recipe for how they should look (when "cooked") is stored in the Lightroom catalog (as a list of "instructions"), and the cook is Lightroom itself.

                   

                  Lightroom reads the raw data and the recipe and creates an image for you to see in Lightroom (called a "preview"). That cooked image which you see is not stored anywhere accessible to you. If you want a copy in a file, you export. That exported file is on disk and stays there, wherever YOU put it, until YOU delete it (or if added to catalog, or published, until YOU instruct Lightroom to delete it).

                   

                  PS - The raw file exists on disk somewhere - wherever YOU put it when importing. Lightroom remembers where (in the catalog), but otherwise does not "own" a copy of it (so don't move or delete the raw file outside Lightroom, e.g. using your OS Explorer/Finder, after importing).

                   

                  Rob

                  • 6. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                    jamoroki Level 1

                    Excellent Jim.

                     

                    Thanks a lot for your help. Now I understand. Regards

                    James

                     

                    Blog:  http://www.jamoroki.com

                     

                     

                     

                    James King

                    about.me/jamoroki

                      <http://about.me/jamoroki>

                    • 7. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                      jamoroki Level 1

                      My goodness you are well organised. Thanks a lot. This is very

                      comprehensive. James

                       

                      Blog:  http://www.jamoroki.com

                       

                       

                       

                      James King

                      about.me/jamoroki

                        <http://about.me/jamoroki>

                      • 8. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                        jamoroki Level 1

                        Thanks a lot Rob.

                         

                        Between the three of you I think I am now on the right track.

                         

                        Its now clear from your answers to my main question that any RAW files

                        deleted by LR can only be deleted from ONE place so I will have to delete

                        the backups of those manually.

                         

                        regards

                         

                        James

                         

                        Blog:  http://www.jamoroki.com

                         

                         

                         

                        James King

                        about.me/jamoroki

                          <http://about.me/jamoroki>

                        • 9. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                          areohbee Level 5

                          jamoroki wrote:

                           

                          Thanks a lot Rob.

                          You bet .

                           

                          jamoroki wrote:

                           

                          any RAW files deleted by LR can only be deleted from ONE place

                          True. If you want to delete 2nd copies (of selected photos only), there is a script you can use (I wrote it, but it's not a plugin):

                           

                          MiscScripts

                           

                          ~R.

                          • 10. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                            jamoroki Level 1

                            Thanks again Rob.

                             

                            Too clever for me so I'll do it manually until maybe there will be a

                            plug-in one day!!!!!!!!!

                             

                            Blog:  http://www.jamoroki.com

                             

                             

                             

                            James King

                            about.me/jamoroki

                              <http://about.me/jamoroki>

                            • 11. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                              areohbee Level 5

                              jamoroki wrote:

                               

                              Thanks again Rob.

                              You bet / you're welcome jamoroki.

                               

                              jamoroki wrote:

                               

                              I'll do it manually

                              Not a bad way to go, once you know to do it, unless you're thinking of doing selectively.

                               

                              jamoroki wrote:

                               

                              Too clever for me

                              Do you mean the manual installation?

                               

                              jamoroki wrote:

                               

                              maybe there will be a plug-in one day!!!!!!!!!

                              I'm not sure what a plugin would buy over a script - if you don't mind: please explain..

                               

                              R

                              • 12. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                                jamoroki Level 1

                                Rob.

                                 

                                Too clever for me means script means nothing to me other than I might have

                                to do some behind the scenes work which I don't understand.

                                 

                                You are a tekky and I am a lay user which presumably plug-ins are designed

                                for?

                                 

                                regards

                                 

                                James

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Blog:  http://www.jamoroki.com

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                James King

                                about.me/jamoroki

                                  <http://about.me/jamoroki>

                                • 13. Re: How do you delete and save files in backups via LR5?
                                  areohbee Level 5

                                  jamoroki wrote:

                                   

                                  Too clever for me means script means nothing to me other than I might have

                                  to do some behind the scenes work which I don't understand.

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                   

                                  If you are curious to know more:

                                   

                                  A script is essentially the same as a one-file plugin, installed by copying the file to a scripts folder, instead of using plugin manager.

                                   

                                  Plugin: you can have one or more one-file functions in file or library (plugin extras) menu. You can also implement export services and they can have custom metadata.

                                  Script: a one-file function accessed from the "Scripts" menu. Scripts can not implement export services nor have custom metadata.

                                   

                                  How user-friendly the function is has nothing to do with whether it's a script or part of a plugin.

                                   

                                  Regarding deletion of 2nd copy backups: Lightroom does not keep track of association between photo and 2nd imported copy (like it does an xmp or jpeg sidecar for example). If you haven't renamed your files since they were imported, then they're easy to find in the 2nd imported copy directory, otherwise: it may take some "behind the scenes work" to associate them. That will be true whether feature is part of a plugin, or implemented by a script, or even if done manually (if attempting to do selectively).

                                   

                                  I realize you may not understand all of that, but you're not the only reader of this thread , and maybe it will make more sense in the future (you can bookmark threads or search for them later..).

                                   

                                  Cheers,

                                  Rob