14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 25, 2014 8:02 PM by ssprengel

    Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile

    hhansard Level 1

      Searched support, but couldn’t find an exact answer…

      It’s probably something simple and I’m being stupid…

       

      LR5.5, New Catalog

      Image captured with a Canon 5Dm3, Canon EF200 f/2.8 II

      Raw capture, Imported as DNG

      In library, image correctly tagged as EF200 f/2.8 II

      In Develop, enable lens correction profiles, and the profile isn’t there… The list of profiles in the drop-down only shows Canon lenses – so it’s got that part…

       

      I’ve read in several places that the Canon 200mm f/2.8 profile is in the latest CameraRaw/LR – supposed to be there from LR3.3 days. It’s listed on the CR page… I’m almost sure it was there in LR 4.x (I’ve been using LR since the original LR 1.0 Beta).

       

      This is quite odd – it’s popular glass… I’m like 99% sure it was there in some prior incarnation…

       

      Is there a way to output the list of profiles that are actually installed?

       

      What am I missing?

        • 1. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          On Windows, the external profile files are under the LR application folder.  For example for LR 5.5, the lens profiles are here on my Windows 8.1 computer:

           

          C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.5\Resources\LensProfiles\1.0

           

          And in the Canon subfolder I see the following file:

           

          Canon EOS 5D Mark II (Canon EF 200mm f2.8 L USM) - RAW.lcp which is close but doesn’t have a II on it.

           

          There is a 70-200 f/2.8 Mark II profile, though, which is a zoom not a prime.

           

          On a Mac finding the profile files is more tricky requiring right-clicking on the LR application package choosing the show the contents, or so I’ve heard, as I don’t have a Mac.

          • 2. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
            BKKDon Level 4

            Hi,

             

            There is a Canon EF200mm f/2.8 profile but not a EF200mm f/2.8 II profile.

             

            It may be that there is no difference because the first model, introduced in December 1991, had a built-in hood but was discontinued in March 1996 and superseded by the 'mark II', which is similar to first model but with standard bayonet hood, and is still in production. I believe the specifications are exactly the same except the Mark II is about 30g lighter.

             

            It may be worth checking on the Camera RAW forum to see if part of the Camera RAW team can reply.

            • 3. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
              hhansard Level 1

              Both of you, thanks for the replies…

               

              I’ve poked-around the lens profile folder…

               

              Like many explorations, it raised as many questions as it answered…

               

              Library picked-up the Canon 5DM3 Canon 300mm f/2.8 II – as you would expect

               

              Develop is picking-up the Canon 5DM3, then matching against only those LENS profiles that start with Canon 5DM3 (of which there are very few – and nether of the available 200mm optics are in their). There are profiles for the 5DM2 and the 200mm, which I’m assuming Develop would have used – had I been using a 5Dm2…

               

              I suppose purists may insist that it’s the camera body plus the optic that makes the profile – but then it should be called ‘system profile’, not ‘lens profile’. I could really see the utility if a full-frame lens is mated to a small-sensor body – or vice versea… But LR is more of a prosumer package and most prosumers wouldn’t be doing things like that…

               

              I’m reasonably sure this is new behavior… I’ve had the 5DM3 for a while – maybe since 4.3 days, and I’m reasonably sure LR didn’t consider the body. I'm about 99% sure that I've used lens correction with the 5Dm3 + Canon 200mm f/2.8 with LR in the past -- could be wrong, but don't think so...

               

              OK, I now understand what’s going on, how do I fix it? I’m not familiar with LR’s internals. Can I just rename the profiles? Or is there some sort of index that’ll get corrupted?

              • 4. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                A lens profile is body-agnostic because the lens profile is in terms of real world distance measurements not pixels.  The one exception is that you cannot use a lens profile from a crop-sensor camera on a full-frame camera because the part of the image circle outside the crop-frame sensor area is unmeasured.

                 

                The bottom line is that there is no lens profile for the lens you have.  You can for LR to use a different profile by picking it from the list in LR, for the non-II version or the 300mm version or something else that isn't right, but it shouldn't find it automatically.  You can tell LR to Save New Lens Profile Defaults when you have the wrong profile chosen and then if you set the Lens Profile Setup to be Default it'll pick that wrong profile semi-automatically, but I wouldn't recommend doing this, though it could explain why a non-matching profile might have been chosen in the past.

                • 5. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                  hhansard Level 1

                  I realize what you are saying -- I get that -- I agree that the program should work as you describe, but I'm also sure 5.5 doesn't...

                   

                  Somethings not quite right...

                   

                  I'm 99.99% positive that (in the past), I've been given the entire list of Canon EOS optics in the lens-profile drop-down, and if my optic wasn't listed, I could pick something similar... The point is, in 5.5, that capability seems to have been compromised... I'm never given the change to select an alternate optic that's fairly close, because only the few optics mated with the m3 body are presented....

                   

                  I fell the lens profile should be body-agnostic as you say. But it's not -- at least not now in 5.5... LR 5.5 only allows me to select from the seven or eight profiles mated with the 5Dm3 body and not the entire list of profiles (which must be close to eighty) that are mated to the 5Dm2. I would be happy to select the 200mm f/2.8 MkI profile, but because it's mated with the 5dM2 in the lens-profile folder, the option to select it doesn't present itself.

                   

                  Again, I believe this is new behavior. I've a wide collection of Canon EOS glass -- probably 20 or so, and only one of my collection is in the lens-profile folder mated to the 5Dm3 -- most (if not all) are mated with the 5Dm2. Here's the point ---- I'm 99.99% sure that I've used lens profiles in the 2-years I've had the 5Dm3 body, but I have only been on 5.5 for a short while... I'm 99.99% sure that I could have selected from the 5Dm2-mated optics in the past -- but not in 5.5...

                   

                  At some point, LR lens profiles became non-body-agnostic... Now, I could be wrong, but I really don't think so... I would have noticed the behavior far earlier...

                   

                  Note: I stayed on 4.x for a long time... I think I only went LR5 after the first two dot-releases were published. I don't remember the LR5 release schedule, but I think I only switched to LR5 at the 5.3 or 5.4 point... So most of my Canon EOS work was in the 4.x arena and that could be clouding my memory...

                  • 6. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                    hhansard Level 1

                    I done a little more exploring and experimenting...

                     

                    I am now convinced -- 100% positive -- that LR5.5 is not body-agnostic and the this behavior is unintended and in-error...

                     

                    I have about twenty Canon EOS 'L' series lenses.

                     

                    I have been using the 5Dm3 since first week of availability -- late '12 - early '13

                     

                    I have been on LR 5.x for only a few months...

                     

                    None of my EOS 'L' Series lenses are matched to the 5Dm3 lens profiles in the lens-profile folder. It should be noted that the optics mated to the 5Dm3 are all low-end glass -- of which, I own none...

                     

                    Most, if not all, of the higher-end optics are mated to the 5Dm2 body in the lens-profile folder.

                     

                    Prior to my upgrade to 5.x, I regularly used lens profiles with my 5Dm3 body mated to an 'L' series lens profile -- regardless of body. This behavior worked correctly, If I was using a 300mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.2, 50mm f/1.2, etc mated to a 5Dm3 body, the correct lens profile was selectable from the drop-down box. If the lens profile was not available, I was able to select a profile closely matching my setup. With the upgrade to LR 5.5, this functionality is gone...

                     

                    In other words, LR used-to-be body-agnostic when managing lens profiles. The program's behavior has changed.... Clearly, LR 5.5 takes body into consideration when locating lens profiles. LR will only populate the lens-profile drop-down with optics that are matched with a given body. In my case, I was presented with a drop-down list of approximately eight optics associated with the 5Dm3, not the eighty associated with the 5Dm2.

                     

                    I believe this is not how the program is intended to function.

                     

                    Unfortunately, I no-longer have a 5Dm2, so it would be difficult for my to test the 'working' case: optic w/ profile is selected with a 5Dm2, optic /w profile is not available with a 5Dm3. Perhaps someone with both bodies, LR 5.5 on Win7 can try the experiment.

                     

                    Note: Win7 latest SP and hot-patches.

                    • 7. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      The closest lens profile is the Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 II IS. You can compare the Vignetting and Distortion here:

                       

                      Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 L II USM Lens Vignetting

                       

                      Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 L II USM Lens Distortion

                       

                      Mouse over the image to compare the two lenses at the same aperture settings. These lenses are very similar with slight pincushion distortion and moderate vignetting. I'd select that profile under 'Setup' and the select 'Save new lens profile defaults.' You can use the filter bar with Catalog> 'All Photographs' selected to pull up the raw image files shot with that lens. Test a few images you've already processed by selecting the Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 II IS lens profile. If satisfied with the results you can apply the profile by selecting all images and then use Sync or Copy and Paste Settings with just 'Lens Profile Corrections' checked.

                       

                      If Adobe offers a Canon EF200 f/2.8 II lens profile in a future simply follow the above procedure to set it as the new lens profile default and apply it to the raw image files. The differences observed if any should be very minimal (<0.2 EV).

                       

                      I have none of my lens profiles set to 'Auto' and use Distortion Amount = 0 and Vignetting Amount  = 50 as 'New Lens Profile Defaults.' Distortion correction crops the image and can cause stretching of the image in the corners and sides (volume anamorphic distortion). 100% vignetting correction often looks un-natural and increases visibility of noise and lens artifacts in the image corners. This is especially true with ultra wide-angle lenses, but not so much with telephoto lenses.

                       

                      Bottom-Line: There's no free lunch when using 'Lens Corrections.'

                      • 8. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                        hhansard Level 1

                        I appreciate the reply.... Yes, I am aware that there are profiles for similar optics that would get me close. Thanks. However, that's not the issue at all...

                         

                        I think I have not presented the issue clearly... I apologize. I believe that I framed the discussion around a single optic lacking a profile has clouded the underlying issue... It was simply the first time I experienced the problem and used the 200mm optic as an example -- folks are chasing the 200mm optic and it's a red hearing.... The issue is not the specific optic -- sorry if I didn't make that clear. It is simply a symptom of a larger underlying issue.

                         

                        I'll try to clarify the issue...

                         

                        1. The only profiles that are available for me to select are those listed in Develop's profile drop-down.

                         

                        2. The profile drop-down is only populated with profiles located within profile-folder AND associated with the body I'm using (the 5Dm3). *PROBLEM*.

                         

                        3. The vast majority of profiles in the profiles folder are associated with a body I'm not using -- these profiles are unavailable to me. *PROBLEM*.

                         

                        4. Despite most (if not all) all my 'L' series glass having profiles in the profile-folder, none are associated with the body I am using. *PROBLEM*.

                         

                        In summary, despite the profiles existing for my optics, THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE for selection because LR5.5 only populates the drop-down box with profiles mated to the body that captured the image.

                         

                        Once again, thank for everyone suggestion... I realize I could substitute the 200mm Mk1 or the 300mm profiles and get close. THE POINT IS, despite these profiles being in the profile-folder, I CAN NOT ACCESS THEM...

                         

                        However, in previous versions of LR, I COULD.

                         

                        That's the problem...

                         

                        I believe it's not intended behavior.

                         

                        I believe it's a bug that should be corrected.

                         

                        With the upgrade to 5.5 -- LR has become useless to me... The profiles developed for the 'L' series glass can not be accessed...

                        • 9. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          hhansard wrote:

                           

                          I done a little more exploring and experimenting...

                           

                          I am now convinced -- 100% positive -- that LR5.5 is not body-agnostic and the this behavior is unintended and in-error...

                           

                          I believe this is not how the program is intended to function.

                           

                          Unfortunately, I no-longer have a 5Dm2, so it would be difficult for my to test the 'working' case: optic w/ profile is selected with a 5Dm2, optic /w profile is not available with a 5Dm3. Perhaps someone with both bodies, LR 5.5 on Win7 can try the experiment.

                           

                          Note: Win7 latest SP and hot-patches.

                          I am running LR5.5 on Windows 7 64bit with all updates and SP1 patch. Here's what I see inside LR5.5 when selecting Lens Profile> Model using a raw image shot with a Canon 5D MKII and EF 85mm F1.8 lens:

                           

                          Lens Profiles List inside LR5.jpg

                          • 10. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                            RikkFlohr Adobe Community Professional

                            And you are ABSOLUTELY certain you are looking at a Raw/DNG and not a Jpeg, Tiff or PSD?

                            • 11. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                              hhansard Level 1

                              For the love of God... I don't want to be rude, but are folks actually reading my posts or just shooting from the hip?

                               

                              I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond, but please -- no more replies about lens profiles listed for the 5Dm2 -- a camera that was discontinued two years ago.

                               

                              That's not the issue... I get it... OK... Yes, I know the profiles are in the folder... That's the point -- there's there, but I can't use them in LR5.5

                               

                              The point is, I shoot with a 5Dm3. The profiles in the lens-profile folder are mated to the 5Dm2. For the last time, these profiles are not available for use on my images because I shoot with a 5Dm3 body... LR doesn't give me access to the profiles because they are associated with a body discontinued 2-years ago.

                               

                              This is new behavior

                              This is unexpected behavior

                              This behavior is probably not what the designers intended

                              This is a bug.

                               

                              I am looking for a way to get access to the 5Dm2 profiles now until the bug is fixed.

                               

                              If I can not get to those profiles, I'll have to revert to LR 4.x -- which I would really prefer not to do....

                               

                              Thanks...

                              • 12. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                                hhansard Level 1

                                ==>And you are ABSOLUTELY certain you are looking at a Raw/DNG and not a Jpeg, Tiff or PSD

                                Camera is always set to RAW -- but accidents happen...

                                 

                                To your point, I'll run an experiment... I've got some time later today.

                                 

                                I'll format a card, get some lenses with existing profiles and some without existing profiles. I don't have any optics with profiles associated with the 5Dm3, so that's kind of a flaw in the methodology, but you go with what you got...

                                 

                                I'll capture some images.

                                 

                                Some I'll import using ACR and some with LR. I'll convert some to DNG and keep some as CR2... You know, ACR-v-LR and CR2-v-DNG may influence behavior. I didn't think of that. I kind of bounce around ACR/LR and CR2/DNG depending on if this a LR-only shoot, or if I know I'm going PS. Interesting. That's quite a few variables to sort through.

                                 

                                ==>And you are ABSOLUTELY certain you are looking at a Raw/DNG and not a Jpeg, Tiff or PSD

                                Now that I think about it -- I realize profiles wouldn't work well on pre-processed images, but that shouldn't affect the population of the drop-down... That's a function of the lens metadata, not the image format. I could see the lens profile dialog grayed-out with a JPEG, but not selective population...  But I'll run the experiment anyway -- I'll capture come JPGs as well to see what happens.

                                • 13. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  I'm still a little confused what the issue is, but I believe Rikk is correct.

                                   

                                  The "separate" raw lens profiles will NOT show up in the list when a JEPG, TIFF, or PSD image file is selected! Adobe only creates these non-raw JPEG, TIFF, PSD lens profiles for lenses that are commonly used by amateurs. This means most Canon 'L series' will NOT show in the list when a JPEG, TIFF, or PSD image files is selected....they haven't created one!

                                   

                                  Here's what I see using the same raw image with a Canon 5D MKII and EF 85mm F1.8 lens exported as a TIFF file. Quite a few less than when a raw image file is selected.

                                   

                                  hhanasrd can you post a LR screenshot so we can see the lens profiles available when selecting a Canon 5D MKIII and L series lens raw image file?

                                   

                                  Lens Profiles List inside LR5 (with TIFF).jpg

                                  • 14. Re: Canon EF200 f/2.8 II Lens Profile
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    If after your experiments you're still convinced their is a problem with LR 5.5 then please post a CR2 and a JPG from your camera using dropbox.com or similar so others can experiment and see if we see the same as what you're seeing.  It could be some problem on your computer or it could be a problem with LR and having others replace the issue would help determine which.