17 Replies Latest reply on Jul 30, 2014 9:46 AM by DuganCreative

    Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas

    DuganCreative

      I'm using the most current InDesign CC version (10.0.0.70 Build). I've built a file for ePub (fixed) export. I have Photoshop images placed over InDesign radial gradient backgrounds. The Photoshop images have (painted) drop shadows with transparency. When the ePub exporter creates the JPG or PNG files, the image drop shadows have horrible horizontal black lines through them (see image below). Problem is, it’s also inconsistent, sometimes they’re not there, other times, the lines appear. It's not the just the iBooks preview either, as I've opened the image files in Photoshop and they are indeed there as pixel data.

      Screen Shot 2014-07-28 at 11.15.05 PM.png

      I’ve tried simply exporting image files as a test. Doesn't matter if I export JPGs, PNGs or GIFs, they all give me the same issues. I've even tried just the Photoshop file on a plain white background, same issue. Does InDesign not like calculating transparency? I can't seem to find a way to make it work. I’ve even recreated the background gradient files as raster PSDs, thinking maybe InDesign isn’t liking it’s own gradients for compositing, but I still get the same issue.

       

      Should I not be using InDesign to layout composited images on a page? Seems unfortunate, as it's a huge timesaver (and a big part of page layout). My work around so far has been to create each page of art as a separate Photoshop file, then place that into my layout. Not as smooth a workflow, as it’s extra time creating additional Photoshop artwork. Plus, it gives me more files to manage.

       

      My end goal it to have an efficient ePub creation workflow, and I thought InDesign was going to provide that. But this problem with exporting images has me concerned. If this is a bug, I would LOVE to see it fixed, as I've been using InDesign for print design since v2.0 and would really like to extend my use of it into ePub creation. Am I missing something? Thank you in advance for any solutions offered.

        • 1. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Does it happen in an all RGB workflow? The gradient colors, Photoshop mode, and document's Transparency Blend Space are all RGB? Is the Photoshop transparency using a blend mode other than normal?

           

          Can you post a sample somewhere

          • 2. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
            Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

            Normally these slices appear when a transparent image which has been flattened is used in InDesign. The background comes through when vector antialiasing in Acrobat is turned on. These lines are normally white, in some cases, when something is behind or with a colored frame they can have another color.

            It will happen when you place any form of flattened image in InDesign as there are PDF/X1-a, PDF/X-3, EPS, PDF without transparency as any PDF created with the distiller and more so.

            Those lines are normally invisible in print, but when it comes to export to JPG or PNG they will become visible if you export to a different color space than the flattened image was before, e.g. image is CMYK in ECI v2 300 and you export an EPUB which will use sRGB (1966), or from one RGB, let's say ECI RGB to sRGB. (ECI is the European Color Initiative, close to a standard http://www.eci.org)

             

            Could it be that you used an image with flattened transparency?

            Use RGB images with live transparency.

            • 3. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
              DuganCreative Level 1

              Thank you for your reply. Yep, all workflow is RGB. Color settings between Photoshop and InDesign are synchronized. Photoshop layer blend mode is set to multiply, I thought I had tried setting it to normal, to check if that was the issue, but the problem persisted. I'll try again today. It would not be surprised if that had something to do with it though.

               

              There is an image showing the problem in my original post, would you like to see a sample of something else?

              • 4. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                DuganCreative Level 1

                Thank you for your reply. This image is a Photoshop file with live transparency. No vectors involved. Color settings between Photoshop and InDesign are synchronized, both using the same RGB settings.

                 

                Since the problem does not alway occur, I'm wondering if it might be hardware or software related. Boggled.

                • 5. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  There is an image showing the problem in my original post, would you like to see a sample of something else?

                   

                  I meant the actual PSD and ID files that are exporting to JPEG with lines via something like DropBox.

                   

                  InDesign doesn't support Photoshop blend modes.

                   

                  So this red box set to Multiply in PS places as normal in ID

                   

                  Screen Shot 2014-07-29 at 8.41.30 AM.png

                   

                  Screen Shot 2014-07-29 at 8.44.35 AM.png

                  • 6. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    No vectors involved. Color settings between Photoshop and InDesign are synchronized, both using the same RGB settings.

                     

                    How about your InDesign Transparency Blend Space, is it RGB? Are the colors you are using to make the blend in ID RGB?

                    • 7. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                      DuganCreative Level 1

                      Rob Day wrote:

                       

                      There is an image showing the problem in my original post, would you like to see a sample of something else?

                       

                      I meant the actual PSD and ID files that are exporting to JPEG with lines via something like DropBox.

                       

                      InDesign doesn't support Photoshop blend modes.

                       

                      So this red box set to Multiply in PS places as normal in ID

                       

                      Ahh, I see what you mean. I'll see it I can post a sample of what I'm doing with ID and PSD files for you.

                       

                      You're right too, I recalled that InDesign didn't support Photoshop blend modes. I thought I'd tried switching that to "Normal" and had the same issue, but I'll check it again.

                       

                      EDIT: Just tried setting Photoshop blend mode to "Normal." Exported as PNG from InDesign and still had the same issue, darker pixel horizontal lines in the shadow. Ugh.

                      • 8. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                        DuganCreative Level 1

                        Rob Day wrote:

                         

                        No vectors involved. Color settings between Photoshop and InDesign are synchronized, both using the same RGB settings.

                         

                        How about your InDesign Transparency Blend Space, is it RGB? Are the colors you are using to make the blend in ID RGB?

                        Yep, InDesign Transparency Blend Space is RGB. I haven't changed anything from InDesign's default "Digital Publishing" presets. Although, while troubleshooting, I experimented with changing the Blend Space to CMYK, just to see if it handled the flattening differently, no luck with that of course.

                         

                        I wondered if maybe it had to do with the Gradient I'm using as a background, but both colors in the gradient are made using RGB values. But again, I've also tried simply exporting the image on a plain color or white background and found the same lines occurring in the transparent shadow area.

                        • 9. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                          DuganCreative Level 1

                          In case anyone is wondering, I've tried to recreate this problem on my MacBook Pro. Even made a new inDesign file built from scratch with new Photoshop images. Same issue. Both my desktop and MacBook are running OS X 10.9.4 (most recent Mavericks version).

                          • 10. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                            DuganCreative Level 1

                            Rob Day wrote:

                             

                            There is an image showing the problem in my original post, would you like to see a sample of something else?

                             

                            I meant the actual PSD and ID files that are exporting to JPEG with lines via something like DropBox.

                             

                            Here is the InDesign file, the linked Photoshop file, and a sample exported PNG. They show just the Photoshop shadow over the gradient in InDesign. The PNG shows the "lines" issue.

                            DropBox link:

                            Dropbox - Indesign Export Troubleshooting

                            • 11. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              I can't replicate the problem. I exported 72ppi max quality JPEG and PNG from CC2014 and CS6 (don't have a copy of CC installed). Here's a .zip with the exports

                               

                               

                              http://www.zenodesign.com/forum/ExportSamples.zip

                               

                              Are you running any unusual 3rd party plugins? You could try downloading CC2014, you can have both CC and CC2014 installed.

                              • 12. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                                DuganCreative Level 1

                                Rob Day wrote:

                                 

                                I can't replicate the problem. I exported 72ppi max quality JPEG and PNG from CC2014 and CS6 (don't have a copy of CC installed). Here's a .zip with the exports

                                 

                                 

                                http://www.zenodesign.com/forum/ExportSamples.zip

                                 

                                Are you running any unusual 3rd party plugins? You could try downloading CC2014, you can have both CC and CC2014 installed.

                                Aw nuts. Thanks for trying, your exports look just fine.

                                 

                                I was able to get my exports looking fine here with "max" quality setting as well. It seems like that gives me the most consistent results. Thank you for getting me to try that.

                                 

                                Setting export to "high" quality mostly serves up the "lines" problem. Trouble is, when I'm exporting an ePub (fixed layout), I'm not able to control the quality of PNG files. Looks like I'll have to go with JPG.

                                 

                                I'm not running any 3rd party plugins, and I'm using CC2014 (I guess I omitted the "2014" from my first post). I try to keep things as simple as possible.

                                 

                                Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it!

                                • 13. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  I was able to get the lines with a low quality, hi res (300ppi) PNG.

                                   

                                  What resolution are you using? I tried 72 and 150 and they were ok.

                                   

                                  I don't think you want to be using pngs for an image like this. The 300ppi png test where I got the lines was 3mb.

                                  • 14. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Maybe someone else can chime in on this, but I don't think the lines are transparency flattener artifacts.

                                     

                                    I've never seen stitching artifacts when exporting JPEG (I also tried your test as a jpeg at 1200ppi, low quality and it was ok). When I see stitching in a PDF export the flattener preset has to have some vectors in the balance slider—if I flatten to all rasters there's never stitching.

                                     

                                    When you export to a raster format like png or jpeg there isn't a way to choose a flattener preset. I think that's because everything gets converted to rasters so stitching with vectors shouldn't be an issue.

                                     

                                    The png format compresses by limiting the number of colors, so I wonder if the issue with a low quality png and gradients that need a lot of colors is some kind of color palette glitch

                                    • 15. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                                      DuganCreative Level 1

                                      Rob Day wrote:

                                       

                                      I was able to get the lines with a low quality, hi res (300ppi) PNG.

                                       

                                      What resolution are you using? I tried 72 and 150 and they were ok.

                                       

                                      I don't think you want to be using pngs for an image like this. The 300ppi png test where I got the lines was 3mb.

                                       

                                      Great, so it's not just something weird with me both my Macs, heh!

                                       

                                      The whole thing that started this for me was trying to make an EPUB (fixed format) export. My chosen resolution was 150, image format set to "Automatic" (see screenshot below)

                                      Screen Shot 2014-07-29 at 9.54.30 PM.png

                                      InDesign automatically chose to use PNG files. That is when I noticed the issue. I tried changing the "Format" pulldown to JPG, but some of the composites with transparency didn't really work. The export just fine when just exporting JPGs only (not by way of EPUB). It's all kind of a blur now though, as I've been working on solving this over two days now. Thank you for putting so much of your own effort into this as well!

                                       

                                      I think part of this may be due to the fact that it's a slightly different approach than doing print design, which I am more familiar with. The solution I landed on today was to create every page with images as a Photoshop file, including the image with drop shadows AND the gradient on layers (of course). Then I placed them into InDesign where I added my page text. Everything works great that way, it's just doing some extra work outside of InDesign; I just didn't think that would be necessary, but perhaps it is.

                                       

                                      Thank you again for trying to help me figure out why this is happening!

                                      • 16. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Did you ever see the problem with jpegs? Doesn't seem like you would want pngs, unless you don't care about the epub's size. If you were designing for the web the only time you would use png would be for flat color—something like a typographic logo that has a limited color palette.

                                         

                                        You can also make an exception for an image via Object>Object Export Opttions>EPUB. So you could export everything as jpeg and make an exception for like vector art or logos.

                                        • 17. Re: Exported image files have black lines in transparent (shadow) areas
                                          DuganCreative Level 1

                                          JPGs work fine, in fact, that's what I'm using this time around. I wasn't able to before, since InDesign wasn't compositing images as I expected. My fault I suppose, since I approached the layout from a "print" design perspective.

                                           

                                          When I chose JPG format from the EPUB export, I wanted this:

                                          Screen Shot 2014-07-30 at 11.35.19 AM.png

                                           

                                          But I would get this:

                                          Screen Shot 2014-07-30 at 11.35.29 AM.png

                                           

                                          The EPUB approach gave me JPGs with white boxes on top of JPG gradient backgrounds. No "alpha" in JPGs of course. Standard JPG image exports of individual pages, of course have no problems, you get a proper composite. But when going through the EPUB export, it seems to handle things differently. I'm guessing that, when it finds one image layered on top of another, it assumes you want layered images, not one composited image. This part is a learning process for me. But I'm getting there, heh.

                                           

                                          I may make some exceptions by using Object>Object Export Options>EPUB as you suggested (in fact, I still have an AI logo on my back cover that I'll try that with). Mostly right now, I'm just building/compositing all my images in Photoshop, then placing that into InDesign.