23 Replies Latest reply on Nov 16, 2015 4:08 PM by pkast

    Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?

    ShariCarroll

      Why is the font size for the Photoshop Cloud navigation menus and tools displaying extremely small on my laptop? I can barely see them. The other Adobe Cloud applications don't display small.

        • 1. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
          Level 5

          Because the Adobe folks have never heard about software usability.

           

          We've been complaining about this for years. It's not only the font size that is inadequate in the UI, it's also the absurdly thin scroll bars.

          • 2. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
            davidc1815 Level 4

            Absolutely.  Ridiculously inflexible.  The UI needs to be larger to cope with bigger displays -  my NEC 2560x1440 needs a larger Photoshop UI (I find) - including, as you say, not just the Font size.  I don't know how these things work, but I assume if they can make an experimental 200% UI they can offer us a few sizes in between.  I find Corel Painter a more legible workspace etc.

            • 3. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
              gener7 Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              If you have Photoshop CC 2014, go to Preferences > Experimental Features and check mark "Scale UI 200%" for Windows Only.

              • 4. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                davidc1815 Level 4

                Thanks.  Yes, that's why I mentioned it ironically in my post.  200% is for me massively too large.

                • 5. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                  You folks do know that the font size for most text items can be altered, right?  With Photoshop CC 2014 this does not cover the main menus, but you can affect the fonts used to label pretty much everything else a certain amount through the Preferences - Interface - Font Size setting...

                   

                  You may have to click this to see the animation.

                   

                  FontSizeChanges.gif

                   

                  -Noel

                  • 7. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                    davidc1815 Level 4

                    Thanks, Noel.  Yes, I know about the Font size adjustment in Preferences - unfortunately for me "Large" doesn't quite do it.  "An "XL" and "XXL"" would be nice.  But the ability to adjust the size of the workspace components (including Fonts and Tool Panel options etc) would be nice.

                    • 8. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                      Level 5

                      Noel,

                       

                      Your relentless defense of the Adobe in every respect serves two purposes admirably: to annoy the he!! out of every user who dares complain about stuff they don't like, and to cancel out any reasonable requests for an improved product.

                       

                      The latter doesn't affect me in the least any longer since both Adobe and I know I cannot be considered an Adobe customer, despite having been one for about 30 years, because I did not buy into the subscription model.

                       

                      But others, like nickna12 and ShariCarroll, deserve a chance to have their voice heard.

                      • 9. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                        Level 5

                        Sorry, in #8 I forgot to add a 3rd objective:  to satisfy your desire to contradict me. 

                        • 10. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                          Noel Carboni Level 8

                          I'm not doing everything I need to be doing if you're not annoyed with me, station_two! 

                           

                          In this case I don't think I'm trying to drown out anyone at all.  I'm merely pointing out the features that DO exist.  It's possible some folks don't know about them.  And I did say that the font is adjustable only a certain amount, which is quite often too little.

                           

                          As far as my comment in the other thread about Adobe never announcing they'd fix high dpi issues for Windows in Photoshop CS6, I'm just being brutally honest (the only way I know how to be).  I'm not trying to discredit anyone's needs or desires.  I have a very good memory for what people have promised, and I never heard Adobe promise it.  That doesn't say it didn't happen, but I'm reasonably attentive.  The ONLY thing I remember them promising is support for the then upcoming Windows 8 and Mavericks operating systems releases.

                           

                          I'm quite certain Adobe is working on a much better user interface, but it's going to take time.  Photoshop's UI cannot be rewritten from the ground up in a day!  As an engineer who makes software to fit with Adobe's I have a pretty good insight into this.

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 11. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                            Level 5

                            Noel Carboni wrote:

                             

                            …I never heard Adobe promise it…

                             

                             

                            Nobody has heard Adobe promise anything ever.

                             

                            However, Adobe now has zero incentive to do anything to improve any one of their products with the subscription Cash Cow.  If anything, they're pretty good at taking features out.  Even to the point of buying off other companies and then killing their products off.

                            • 12. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                              funkotronic13 Level 1

                              Necropost since I'm laughing at all the varied topics on tons of forums that ALL point to the UI issues in CS/CC: This has been going on for years, and while I understand your defense of Adobe from the viewpoint of a software engineer, their treatment of the customers can be condescending and haughty to the point of extreme rudeness.

                               

                              For instance, look at their handling of the YEARS worth of complaints re: Photoshop interface - yes, I understand it's a Windows API issue (problem does not exist on the Mac side), but it sure seems like the mandate from upper management is pretty much "never admit that we have an issue - use excuses, rename it a feature, blame it elsewhere, etc etc."

                               

                              Laughably bad for the gold standard in graphics production, IMHO.

                               

                              Photoshop: Menu too small on Windows high res display

                              • 13. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                Level 5

                                Funkotronic,

                                 

                                One has to consider Noel's perspective also as something else than just that of the viewpoint of a software engineer, but as a superactive contributor to the forums, he gets some free software and other perks from Adobe, as he himself has publicly admitted.

                                 

                                I fully agree with you when you write:

                                 

                                funkotronic13 wrote:

                                 

                                …their (Adobe's) treatment of the customers can be condescending and haughty to the point of extreme rudeness.

                                 

                                For instance, look at their handling of the YEARS worth of complaints re: Photoshop interface - yes, I understand it's a Windows API issue (problem does not exist on the Mac side), but it sure seems like the mandate from upper management is pretty much "never admit that we have an issue - use excuses, rename it a feature, blame it elsewhere, etc etc."

                                 

                                Laughably bad for the gold standard in graphics production, IMHO.

                                 

                                Photoshop: Menu too small on Windows high res display

                                • 14. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                                  You may think of me as a "fanboy" who has nothing but good things to say about Adobe, station_two, but I tell it like it is.  I also contribute a good bit of feedback directly to Adobe, certainly not all positive, in order to help them make the best product possible.  I care whether Adobe succeeds.  Let the Photoshop CC 2014.2 About banner scroll to the end some time.

                                   

                                  -Noel

                                  • 15. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                    Level 5

                                    That describes someone other than the Noel Carboni I know in these forums.  Sorry.

                                    • 16. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                      Noel Carboni Level 8

                                      Thanks for your opinion.

                                       

                                      Keep in mind some folks try to help in a positive way, and others complain that things are not as they expect.  The former set often gets more things accomplished.

                                       

                                      -Noel

                                      • 17. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                        Level 5

                                        What the heck has anybody ever accomplished here, with Adobe, in either fashion?

                                        • 18. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                          Level 5

                                          That was a rhetorical question.  No reply expected.

                                          • 19. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                            funkotronic13 Level 1

                                            HI Noel, and I'm glad to see you show back up in here. I totally hear your "you get more results with honey than with lemonade" ethos, but I ask you this question directly:

                                             

                                            Is a readable interface an unreasonable expectation?

                                             

                                            I have been in these discussions for a long time, and for the quite a while, the answers by Tranberry and Cox can easily be seen as evasive, corporate double-speak or disingenuous; the solutions presented are clearly stopgap half-measures: if the user employs the "experimental 200% scale" bludgeon-fix, the interface is so large as to be comical, and an end user should never be asked to fiddle with  "UI_SCALE_FACTOR" settings and mess with all your OTHER apps just to make PS look right; the slightest variation from "site standards" is grounds for comment removal (particularly when said comment exposes a flaw, in some areas the redaction rate exceeds the approved comment rate); and the methods of trying to shift blame to either the end user or another company are, well, shall we say... "less than satisfactory". Why is it SOOOO hard to just say basically "yeah, it seems like we screwed up and we are working on that one". Heck, how did it ever get past QC before it was released?!?!  And it's not like this is an isolated incident, the various forums are FULL of people freaking out about not being able to read the interface:

                                             

                                            adobe-comm-menus.JPG

                                             

                                            In all cases when I (and others) have simply let screenshots do the talking and show CLEAR EVIDENCE of a UI failure, particularly in comparison to other CC apps, the official response has almost ALWAYS been the same: deafening silence. That alone is enough to make me a little crazy. In one outstanding example, a customer was consistent, insistent, polite and to-the-point, and finally held Adobe's feet to the fire in such a clear fashion, that they had no choice but to promote it to some sort of "featured response status", and ended up (gasp) admitting that "some customers may have experienced less than ideal results" or some such bull marketing-speak to that effect. Of course, the blog post that is referenced to "read all about our glorious efforts to make PSCC2014 a better product" makes no mention of the issue: interface size controllability. When pressed for details on WHERE this UI size controllability information was released, guess what the official response was? Yup, more silence.

                                             

                                            My solution was simple and I'm lucky: Back away from HiDPI monitor purchases, at least on the PC side. Others have not been so lucky.

                                             

                                            /rant

                                            • 20. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                              Noel Carboni Level 8

                                              funkotronic13 wrote:

                                               

                                              Is a readable interface an unreasonable expectation?

                                               

                                              Not at all, and we should well expect that Adobe is working on it.  By their own admission they ARE working on it.  I don't sense "deafening silence" at all.  But results won't/can't be instantaneous and they're not going to promise you release dates.  Life is not like that, no matter how many times you click your red shoes together.

                                               

                                              It's not hard to understand that right now only a small minority of Photoshop users are running high dpi screens that can't take advantage of the 200% setting.  And it was the choice of those users to buy such hardware even in light of the fact that Photoshop can't work fully well on it yet.  Adobe didn't force anyone to buy a 150 ppi display.

                                               

                                              Frankly, if you've chosen such hardware even though Photoshop doesn't offer 150% scaling, it's your own fault.  I recently invested well over $1000 in a new monitor and I planned well enough ahead to buy a 100ppi model (Dell U3014, and it's GREAT).  There's a reason that very new technology is called "bleeding edge".  If you want "To Work" instead of "Dealing With Quirks", sometimes you have to be conservative.

                                               

                                              A majority of Photoshop users DO expect new and useful features, however, such as new tools, new camera support in Camera Raw, etc., so Adobe understandably cannot dedicate every resource they have to revamping Photoshop's user interface just for a special few folks who have irresponsibly adopted new display technology.

                                               

                                              We can debate all day how much Adobe ought to be spending on engineering development, but you and I don't run the company.  We don't make business decisions for them.  I do, however, claim to understand their capabilities and limitations - possibly better than most - because I'm in the same business.

                                               

                                              I can only recommend you be patient.  One day Photoshop will respond to your desktop settings.

                                               

                                              What the heck has anybody ever accomplished here, with Adobe, in either fashion?

                                               

                                              Rhetorical or not, some quite tangible things do come to mind...

                                               

                                              • At one time I couldn’t paste my clipboard containing a grayscale image into a new document via an action assigned to a key; the color engine would crash.  Today I can do so without incident.
                                              • At one time multiple Help windows would pop up unexpectedly, often when working in the Styles panel.  Today they don’t.
                                              • At one time I had to select Basic GPU mode.  Today I use Advanced GPU mode without a problem.
                                              • Once running Liquify or Smart Sharpen or a number of other things were slow, especially on big images.  Now they're quite fast, with GPU acceleration.
                                              • At one time an action could not write data back to a document when in windowed mode.  Today it works.
                                              • At one time panorama stitching and focus stacking did not work.  Now it works.
                                              • At one time most filters only worked on 8 bits/channel data.  Now many of them can handle 16 bits/channel.
                                              • Once naysayers predicted that the Photoshop Photography bundle would shoot up in price.  Yet today it's still $9.99 a month.
                                              • Once it was impossible to read Photoshop's UI on a 200+ ppi screen.  Now there's a new 200% setting for that.

                                               

                                              I'm sure I can think of other things.  And of course the software isn't perfect today.  It never will be absolutely perfect.

                                               

                                              Station_two, are you keeping up with the latest Photoshop releases?  If not, I submit that your rhetoric may be falling out of date.

                                               

                                              -Noel

                                              • 21. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                                pkast

                                                November 15, 2015 -- CC 2015 ...and they are still working on it. Still have a UI that is not scalable to make it useful on many machines. Shame on you Adobe. I've lost confidence, I still subscribe and I don't like it.

                                                • 22. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                                  Level 7

                                                  200% UI Scaling was added on Windows in Photoshop CC 2014.

                                                  Adobe is working with Microsoft on the issues needed to allow more flexible UI scaling in the future.

                                                  • 23. Re: Why is the Photoshop font size extremely small for their navigation menus and tools?
                                                    pkast Level 1

                                                    200% doesn't work on many systems, either too small at 100% or too large at 200%, you know that this issue has been going on for years and no end in sight, yes we all know that Adobe is working with Microsoft on the issue, but how many years to get this resolved. I've worked on mega-mansions that have been completed in this sort of time frame for major Silicon Valley software executives, Chris. We are all getting very tired of waiting, and this is not directed at you personally Chris, I'm sure you feel our pain/frustration since you listen and respond to our posts.