6 Replies Latest reply on Apr 29, 2007 7:27 PM by Ann_Shelbourne

    ideal set-up for color fidelity

    jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh
      ok, i'm trying to find out the best settings for color fidelity between kular and adobe cs apps. i'm a print designer, so cmyk is where i need to be.

      somewhere else on these forums, ann said the reason colors looked different was because browsers weren't color managed (and graphics apps WERE). she said to make sure the monitor was calibrated, and to use a 2.2 gamma setting (even though i've used 1.8 forever). i did that. she said to use the adobe srb profile and the colors should look close. i'm not sure which profile she's talking about (and i asked her via a p.m.),

      there's srgb IEC, e-srgb, srgb, and adobe rgb. which is best to use if i want to see colors as close as possible in safari and pshop, illustrator, etc?

      i made a new theme, then keyed in the values i saw in kuler into an rgb pshop file. not only were the colors off, but the cmyk colors changed after i applied them. i guess this is because it's an rgb file.

      what are you guys doing to get colros as close as possible between kuler and pshop, etc? many thanks.
      marc
        • 1. Re: ideal set-up for color fidelity
          Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
          The first thing is to Calibrate your monitor and set-up Color Management in Photoshop.

          Go to this web site and follow his instructions to the letter and you will be fine!

          http://www.gballard.net/nca.html#getagoodscreen

          srgbIEC61966 or "sRGB" in Photoshop are the same thing,

          Safari is built to work in that space: and the old IE 5.5 (Mac) could be set to respect that space — but all the other Browsers work only in their owner's own Monitor Spaces.
          And you have zero control of what ever THAT might be like!).

          But, if your own monitor is decently calibrated, you should see the Kuler colors fairly accurately in Safari.

          Regarding CMYK:
          Your RGB colors will be converted into the CMYK Working Space which is currently in use at the precise moment that you Convert to CMYK.
          That might be SWOP, or Sheetfed, or use GCR with different K Gen. settings; but the Conversion will give you 4C Process Ink percentages which will most closely replicate your RGB colors when the piece is printed .

          You might find the Adobe U2U Forum/ Photoshop to be a very good place to get help with Color Management issues.

          http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.ee6b362/?@95.uMXYhaNpbmm@
          • 2. Re: ideal set-up for color fidelity
            Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
            >i made a new theme, then keyed in the values i saw in kuler into an rgb pshop file. >

            Don't do it that way.

            Save and download the Kuler.ase file.

            Then Load it as a Color Swatch (via the Color Swatch palette pop-out menu).

            You will then be seeing the colors in a Color-Managed working space.
            • 3. Re: ideal set-up for color fidelity
              Sami@Adobe Adobe Employee
              Many thanks to Ann for sharing her color management wisdom. :-)
              As she mentioned, the Adobe U2U Forum for Photoshop is a good suggestion for more information on this complex topic.
              Sami
              • 4. Re: ideal set-up for color fidelity
                jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh Level 1
                thanks to both of you. i tried the d.l. thing, and t looked pretty much the same.

                thanks again.

                marc
                • 5. ideal set-up for color fidelity
                  jacobrus
                  > Safari is built to work in that space: and the old IE 5.5 (Mac)
                  > could be set to respect that space — but all the other Browsers
                  > work only in their owner's own Monitor Spaces. And you have
                  > zero control of what ever THAT might be like!).

                  > But, if your own monitor is decently calibrated, you should see
                  > the Kuler colors fairly accurately in Safari.

                  This is not accurate. Safari, like all other browsers, generally works in the display's color space, which is device-specific.

                  On Safari, images (jpeg, png, etc.) with embedded color profiles will be color managed. But nothing else, and not the Flash used by Kuler.

                  See here for details

                  ----

                  To really get accurate colors, you should create a new photoshop document with the working space set to your current display profile, and then input all the rgb values from Kuler (not sure if importing the swatches will keep the rgb values the same, or whether it will try to assume they are sRGB). Then you can convert this document to whatever other color space you want, using a rendering intent like relative colorimetric, and the colors should still be the same as you saw in the flash kuler tool.

                  This is cumbersome, so there may be a better way. If you change your display to use 2.2 gamma instead of 1.8, that will make the colors somewhat close, but there will still be significant differences from display to display.

                  ----

                  It's definitely worth complaining to Adobe to get Flash to do proper color management, so that browsers can in turn color manage the rest of web content. If I knew who at Adobe to contact about this, I would. :)
                  • 6. Re: ideal set-up for color fidelity
                    Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
                    If I open a number of images saved with different embedded color profiles (sRGB, Adobe RGB, ProColor RGB and also one with no embedded profile at all) in Safari, all of them will closely match the way that they are displaying in Photoshop CS3 on the same calibrated monitor.

                    If I then open exactly the same set in Firefox, the colors vary considerably — with the ProPhoto GB and Adobe RGB files looking particularly atrocious. (as you might expect!)

                    If I Save Kuler swatches and download them to my HD as .ase files, I can load them into a Swatch palette in the CS3 applications; use them to fill selections in a Photoshop document; and the appearance of the on-screen colors will be VERY close (in fact they look identical!) to the way that they appear on the Kuler site in my Safari Browser.

                    The Color-Managed CS3 applications are displaying them through my calibrated monitor using my set Working RGB Space.

                    If I then use Convert to Profile and convert my document to a different RGB space, the RGB numbers change but the colors look the same as they did previously either when Soft-Proofed in the correct RGB Working Space or when I change my Working RGB Space to match the new Profile of the document.

                    Used in this way, Kuler is working perfectly and maintaining the exact same APPEARANCE between my view of the Kuler website (via Safari) and that displayed in Photoshop CS3, Illustrator CS3 or InDesign CS3.

                    Copying the RGB NUMBERS from Kuler will NOT work.

                    You have to work by loading the Swatch Palette in your Adobe application from the downloaded .ase file; and then allowing your Working Space RGB Profile manage the colors by CONVERTING the numbers to give the same VISUAL APPEARANCE in your actual Working Color Space.

                    If you are not seeing the same results, there is either something VERY wrong with your Monitor calibration; or with the way that you you are using the Adobe Color Settings and Color Management Profiles.