12 Replies Latest reply on Apr 23, 2007 11:41 PM by Newsgroup_User

    Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?

    TheStrangerSome
      Hi, I've currently ordered CS3 Web Premium and it won't ship until tomarrow, and I don't know whether I should cancel it and get the Design Premium instead.

      It all depends on whether Fireworks is a must have for web page design. Does it offer anything invaluable that I need that Photoshop Cs3 won't already fill? I saw the tour for InDesign and was impressed how you can create amazing page layouts and how you can export them to XHTML.

      I probably won't be using Adobe Contribute as I prefer making my own WYSIWYG editor in asp.net for my webpages, because I don't want to buy a new license of Contribute for every web page I make for a different client, so the choice of whether I should leave Web Premium and get Design Premium rest on whether Fireworks is more useful for webpage design and whether creating web page layouts with InDesign is worth paying the extra money for (I don't mind using it to create computer software manuals as well).

      I appreciate any input on this matter. :)
        • 1. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
          Level 7
          TheStrangerSome wrote:
          > Hi, I've currently ordered CS3 Web Premium and it won't ship until tomarrow,
          > and I don't know whether I should cancel it and get the Design Premium instead.
          >
          > It all depends on whether Fireworks is a must have for web page design. Does
          > it offer anything invaluable that I need that Photoshop Cs3 won't already fill?
          > I saw the tour for InDesign and was impressed how you can create amazing page
          > layouts and how you can export them to XHTML.
          >
          > I probably won't be using Adobe Contribute as I prefer making my own WYSIWYG
          > editor in asp.net for my webpages, so the choice of whether I should leave Web
          > Premium and get Design Premium rest on whether Fireworks is more useful for
          > webpage design and whether creating web page layouts with InDesign is worth
          > paying the extra money for (I don't mind using it to create computer software
          > manuals as well).
          >
          > I appreciate any input on this matter. :)
          >
          I've really not used InDesign, but ALL my web design work and
          prototyping go through Fireworks rather than Photoshop. I just find it
          to be a better, more intuitive tool for doing web graphic work.

          Photoshop is my imaging app of choice for high res or heavy duty image
          editing, but after that's done, the graphics end up in FW.

          --
          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
          Extending Knowledge, Daily
          http://www.communityMX.com/
          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
          ---
          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
          news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
          news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver
          • 2. Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
            Level 1
            Hi TheStrangerSome,

            If I may chime in and add to Jim Babbage's advice or suggestion.

            Please note that there is no such a thing as "WYSIWYG" editor. It is more accurate of putting this term "HTML" rather than "WYSIWYG" as HTML editing app. However, you could create beautiful "WYSIWYG-like" on your website with the combination of HTML *and* CSS. Although, I don't know what is your HTML skill level at this point.

            In addition to this aspect of discussion about web authoring app issue, it should be addressed in either general discussion forums either at Dreamweaver or Contribute for that matter. This forum is about Fireworks, including web graphic and web photo, as well as techinques applied or workarounds around Fireworks... or helping you to get most out of Fireworks as a whole.

            As for "changing the order" from Web Premium to Design Premium, it is BEST if you talk to Adobe customer service department immediately. Though, I believe that their business hours are based on Pacific Standard Time Monday through Friday. Please refer to Contact as appeared on top of Adobe systemwide website, including this forum. If you roll your browser up to the top of webpage, you'll notice the term "Contact". use that link for further details.

            I think you might be mistaken for term "layout" used in InDesign or Fireworks. Please note that InDesign is specifically designed for high-end professional-quality print layout such as magazine articles, newspapers and PDF documentations (export as PDF format) straight out of InDesign application. That might confuse you or led you into thinking that InDesign is ideally a layout design for web. Actually, it is not.

            Perhaps that you stick to the fundamentals of Fireworks or Photoshop and use them as layout structure and then transfer them into Dreamweaver CS3. Please try to keep this as simple as much as you can when you produce a layout design in Fireworks (or Photoshop). If you are good at HTML and CSS editing, then all you have to do is put in image files into Dreamweaver and code away by linking or referencing image files to HTML.

            By the sound of your a bit of confusion or don't understand the primary difference between Fireworks, Photoshop or InDesign, you ought to keep it simple and take it easy. Becuase you will probably feel overwhelemed with all of these powerful applications and not knowing the primary functionality or the main purposes of these applications and what they are for, etc.

            So, hopefully this helps you better understand and try to figure this out yourself, because you know what's the best for you.

            Hope that helps, no?

            Cheers, Brian

            P.S. Please note that Adobe forums are based on "volunteer-basis", which means it is not monitored or run by full-time Adobe staff or team from Adobe. Although, there are times, that some people from Adobe chime in and offer some tips or suggestion or pointers. In other words, there are thousand of forum participants, like you, helping each other. Hopefully that helps, too.

            quote:

            Originally posted by: TheStrangerSome
            Hi, I've currently ordered CS3 Web Premium and it won't ship until tomarrow, and I don't know whether I should cancel it and get the Design Premium instead.

            It all depends on whether Fireworks is a must have for web page design. Does it offer anything invaluable that I need that Photoshop Cs3 won't already fill? I saw the tour for InDesign and was impressed how you can create amazing page layouts and how you can export them to XHTML.

            I probably won't be using Adobe Contribute as I prefer making my own WYSIWYG editor in asp.net for my webpages, because I don't want to buy a new license of Contribute for every web page I make for a different client, so the choice of whether I should leave Web Premium and get Design Premium rest on whether Fireworks is more useful for webpage design and whether creating web page layouts with InDesign is worth paying the extra money for (I don't mind using it to create computer software manuals as well).

            I appreciate any input on this matter. :)


            • 3. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
              Level 7
              Excellent clarifications, DWD.

              --
              Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
              Extending Knowledge, Daily
              http://www.communityMX.com/
              CommunityMX - Free Resources:
              http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
              ---
              .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
              news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
              news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver

              Deaf Web Designer wrote:
              > Hi TheStrangerSome,
              >
              > If I may chime in and add to Jim Babbage's advice or suggestion.
              >
              > Please note that there is no such a thing as "WYSIWYG" editor. It is more
              > accurate of putting "HTML" as HTML editing app.
              > In addition to this aspect of discussion about web authoring app issue, it
              > should be addressed in either general discussion forums either at Dreamweaver
              > or Contribute for that matter.
              >
              > As for "changing the order" from Web Premium to Design Premium, it is BEST if
              > you talk to Adobe customer service department immediately. Though, I believe
              > that their business hours are based on Pacific Standard Time Monday through
              > Friday. Please refer to Contact as appeared on top of Adobe systemwide website,
              > including this forum. If you roll your browser up to the top of webpage, you'll
              > notice the term "Contact". use that link for further details.
              >
              > I think you might be mistaken for term "layout" used in InDesign or Fireworks.
              > Please note that InDesign is specifically designed for high-end
              > professional-quality print layout such as magazine articles, newspapers and PDF
              > documentations (export as PDF format) straight out of InDesign application.
              > That might confuse you or led you into thinking that InDesign is ideally a
              > layout design for web. Actually, it is not.
              >
              > Perhaps that you stick to the fundamentals of Fireworks or Photoshop and use
              > them as layout structure and then transfer them into Dreamweaver CS3. Please
              > try to keep this as simple as much as you can when you produce a layout design
              > in Fireworks (or Photoshop). If you are good at HTML and CSS editing, then all
              > you have to do is put in image files into Dreamweaver and code away by linking
              > or referencing image files to HTML.
              >
              > By the sound of your a bit of confusion or don't understand the primary
              > difference between Fireworks, Photoshop or InDesign, you ought to keep it
              > simple and take it easy. Becuase you will probably feel overwhelemed with all
              > of these powerful applications and not knowing the primary functionality or the
              > main purposes of these applications and what they are for, etc.
              >
              > So, hopefully this helps you better understand and try to figure this out
              > yourself, because you know what's the best for you.
              >
              > Hope that helps, no?
              >
              >
              > P.S. Please note that Adobe forums are based on "volunteer-basis", which means
              > it is not monitored or run by full-time Adobe staff or team from Adobe.
              > Although, there are times, that some people from Adobe chime in and offer some
              > tips or suggestion or pointers. In other words, there are thousand of forum
              > participants, like you, helping each other. Hopefully that helps, too.
              >
              >
              quote:

              Originally posted by: TheStrangerSome
              > Hi, I've currently ordered CS3 Web Premium and it won't ship until tomarrow,
              > and I don't know whether I should cancel it and get the Design Premium instead.
              >
              > It all depends on whether Fireworks is a must have for web page design. Does
              > it offer anything invaluable that I need that Photoshop Cs3 won't already fill?
              > I saw the tour for InDesign and was impressed how you can create amazing page
              > layouts and how you can export them to XHTML.
              >
              > I probably won't be using Adobe Contribute as I prefer making my own WYSIWYG
              > editor in asp.net for my webpages, because I don't want to buy a new license of
              > Contribute for every web page I make for a different client, so the choice of
              > whether I should leave Web Premium and get Design Premium rest on whether
              > Fireworks is more useful for webpage design and whether creating web page
              > layouts with InDesign is worth paying the extra money for (I don't mind using
              > it to create computer software manuals as well).
              >
              > I appreciate any input on this matter. :)

              >
              >
              >
              Excellent clarifications, DWD.

              --
              Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
              Extending Knowledge, Daily
              http://www.communityMX.com/
              CommunityMX - Free Resources:
              http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
              ---
              .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
              news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
              news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver
              • 4. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                TheStrangerSome Level 1
                Thanks for the advice. I know InDesign is mostly used for print page design, but when I was looking at the InDesign tour on the Adobe website they showed a feature where they created a webpage product catalogue in InDesign and then they exported it to XHTML. So I assumed that InDesign could also be used as a mock WebPage designer as well.

                I usually did my webpages in Visual Studio .NET by mostly typing all the tags and CSS which took a really long time and this time I would like a suite that would let me create the front end layout much more quckly, which is why InDesign got my attention when I saw the XHTML demo for it.

                Well judging by the answers so far, I think I'll stick with Web Premium since Fireworks seems to be a product worth having for web graphic design.
                • 5. Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                  Level 1
                  Hi Jim,

                  Thanks!

                  Brian

                  quote:

                  Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                  Excellent clarifications, DWD.

                  --
                  Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                  Extending Knowledge, Daily
                  http://www.communityMX.com/
                  CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                  http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                  ---
                  .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                  news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
                  news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver

                  • 6. Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                    Level 1
                    Hi TheStrangerSome,

                    Glad that I can be of some help. I can't seem to find InDesign's feature as exported XHTML feature? Can you show me a link to that source of information. Then I can look into it and see what is going on and reproduce of it with Id on my machine.

                    However, it is my understanding and believe that InDesign's generated HTML (or XHTML code) behave oddly in Dreamweaver or veiwing in web browser on the Internet. In other words, you could create mock-up layout in Fireworks app and then transfer your mock-up work quickly to Dreamweaver with some adjustment in HTML code and things like that.

                    To illustrate a fundamental of mockup steps in Fireworks, as an example, have a look in this Fireworks article,
                    http://www.adobe.com/devnet/fireworks/articles/mockups.html

                    Hope that helps, too.

                    BTW, there is a sample site included in Dreamweaver, along with Fireworks asset of mockup layout in Dreamweaver sample site called Cafe Townsend. You also may wish to download, I believe, that it is the same sample site of Cafe Townsend right off the Fireworks article about mockup too. Thought that you might want to take a look at it. And do some experiment with your CS3 apps once you have it installed on your machine.

                    Cheers, Brian

                    quote:

                    Originally posted by: TheStrangerSome
                    Thanks for the advice. I know InDesign is mostly used for print page design, but when I was looking at the InDesign tour on the Adobe website they showed a feature where they created a webpage product catalogue in InDesign and then they exported it to XHTML. So I assumed that InDesign could also be used as a mock WebPage designer as well.

                    I usually did my webpages in Visual Studio .NET by mostly typing all the tags and CSS which took a really long time and this time I would like a suite that would let me create the front end layout much more quckly, which is why InDesign got my attention when I saw the XHTML demo for it.

                    Well judging by the answers so far, I think I'll stick with Web Premium since Fireworks seems to be a product worth having for web graphic design.


                    • 7. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                      Level 7
                      > I've really not used InDesign, but ALL my web design work and prototyping go
                      > through Fireworks rather than Photoshop.

                      What does "prototyping" mean in this context? I had never heard of the word
                      (not a native speaker), saw it for the first time on the Adobe website and
                      thought it was just adspeak.

                      --
                      Regards,
                      Adriana.
                      [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ]
                      www.spinsister.nl


                      • 8. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                        Level 1
                        Mock-up.

                        quote:

                        Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                        > I've really not used InDesign, but ALL my web design work and prototyping go
                        > through Fireworks rather than Photoshop.

                        What does "prototyping" mean in this context? I had never heard of the word
                        (not a native speaker), saw it for the first time on the Adobe website and
                        thought it was just adspeak.

                        --
                        Regards,
                        Adriana.
                        [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ]
                        www.spinsister.nl





                        • 9. Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                          TheStrangerSome Level 1
                          quote:

                          Originally posted by: Deaf Web Designer
                          Glad that I can be of some help. I can't seem to find InDesign's feature as exported XHTML feature? Can you show me a link to that source of information. Then I can look into it and see what is going on and reproduce of it with Id on my machine.



                          http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/ssi/iframe/feature_tour.html

                          After the initial movie finishes, click

                          "XHTML export" and it will show you a movie how they exported a catalogue page made in Indesign to XHTML and not only does it save it in XHTML but the movie also shows that Indesign can also save the styles in CSS as well. This is what questions my interest in InDesign as a webpage design tool.

                          • 10. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                            Level 1
                            Hi TheStrangerSome,

                            I will have a look at that movie later tonight, and then try to repoduce of the XHTML export from InDesign CS3 to Dreamweaver CS3 and test it on variety of web browser for possible behavior issues. I am not so sure about the efficiency or useful XHTML export feature from Id CS3 to Dw CS3.

                            Thanks for providing the link.

                            Cheers, Brian

                            quote:

                            Originally posted by: TheStrangerSome
                            quote:

                            Originally posted by: Deaf Web Designer
                            Glad that I can be of some help. I can't seem to find InDesign's feature as exported XHTML feature? Can you show me a link to that source of information. Then I can look into it and see what is going on and reproduce of it with Id on my machine.



                            http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/ssi/iframe/feature_tour.html

                            After the initial movie finishes, click

                            "XHTML export" and it will show you a movie how they exported a catalogue page made in Indesign to XHTML and not only does it save it in XHTML but the movie also shows that Indesign can also save the styles in CSS as well. This is what questions my interest in InDesign as a webpage design tool.




                            • 11. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                              abeall Level 3
                              Single click features like that are usually far more charming in the feature video they they are in real life. Your best bet is to download the trials and see for your self. Fw has XHTML and CSS export abilities too, but you won't want to use them for actually building a professional website, just quick previews.

                              Advantages of Fw(for web design):
                              - Integrated slicing of images, optimizing, and preview
                              - Advanced optimizing control
                              - Ability to change CSS/HTML export styles to suite your needs( http://www.adobe.com/devnet/fireworks/articles/fw_html_styles.html)
                              - Pixel preview, like the web
                              - Ability to create easily quick click through mockup websites, complete with pages and navigation that links through them
                              - More intelligent integration with Flash and Flex

                              In general, since Fw was designed for the web where Id is designed for print, you'll find Fw is much easier to use for web purposes. Id's web features are more for design projects that start out in the print world and migrate to the web, rather than beginning on the web. Of course, Id is a great tool, I'm a big fan of it, but I use Fw for websites without question.
                              • 12. Re: Fireworks or Indesign for web page layout?
                                Level 7
                                > Mock-up.

                                Thank you, Brian.

                                --
                                Regards,
                                Adriana.
                                [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ]
                                www.spinsister.nl