10 Replies Latest reply on Aug 26, 2014 2:45 AM by Fred K.

    ACR + monitor calibration

    Fred K. Level 1

      Hi,

       

      I recently calibrated my monitor. I have little experience. Also with color management. Although I know it exists ......

      I doubt whether I have done well. To me it seems that the result is slightly on the gray side (file: P1090340F.JPG).

       

      Is this result (file: P1090340F.JPG) a good starting point to see how the final picture will look like (photo center)?

       

      I have the standard (small) JPG + RAW + JPG-from-RAW + XMP + Calibration-screenshots files put on the following link: http://we.tl/JdTOFrwaLw (8 days from now available on WETRANSFER.COM!).

       

      Please advice.

        • 1. Re: ACR + monitor calibration
          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Embed screenshots in your post, don't link to external downloads. I'm not following unknown links.

           

          What calibrator are you using? What monitor are you using it on?

           

          You should realize first of all that calibration consists of two independent parts. The first is a general adjustment of the monitor itself, mainly to set white and black points and gamma. Neutral color balance is set relative to the white point.

           

          The second part is the creation of a monitor profile, which is a detailed description of the monitor in its now calibrated state. This description is based on measurements and uses many more parameters than the calibration. This is important. Color managed applications convert, on the fly and as you work, from the document profile to the monitor profile, and those modified RGB values are sent to the display. Applications that are not color managed don't do this conversion, and just send the RGB values straight through to the display.

           

          The implication of this last paragraph is this: Color managed and non-color managed applications don't display identically, even with a calibrated monitor. Let this sink in. Only trust software with full color management.

          • 2. Re: ACR + monitor calibration
            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            The wetransfer site is like dropbox.  The linked ZIP file has two JPGs, the raw file, the xmp for the raw file and a Word DOCX file that is two screenshots of i1DisplayPro configuration.

             

            To answer the original question, we can’t see what you see because we’re not viewing your monitor with your monitor profile installed.  It would be a little easier to understand what you see if you did a screen-capture, then opened it in Photoshop and Assigned your monitor profile to it, then Converted the profile to sRGB, then posted that JPG.

             

            To me the F version of the JPG looks ok, but I don’t know what you mean by “gray”.

             

            Your monitor brightness in i1 is only 80cd.  This may be a little dim, but it depends on your ambient lighting and how bright your monitor actually is.  You don’t want the monitor too bright, but 120cd is more standard than 80, but 80 might be fine if you are in a dim environment or don’t like looking at a bright monitor.

            • 3. Re: Re: ACR + monitor calibration
              Fred K. Level 1

              Hi,

              Thanks for the responsetwenty_oneand SSPRENGEL (I received your mail when I wrote a response to 21)

               

              The files and screenshots, mentioned in my previous message, are in a LEGAL transfer website !!!
              But ... here below are the screenshots............and where should I put the JPG-org-small + RAW + XMP + RAW->JPG file's ??? I can not attach them here... isn't it ? (about 17MB)

              And inserting an image in this message is not the right option to examin those images ???? Isn't it?


              Calibration device: X-Rite i1 Display Pro.
              Monitor: CTX 781


              I have already discovered that an image can look different between applications....that was te beginning of my earlier question about calibration etc.

              In calibrated situation now, an image looks pretty the same in PS  and PS-ACR and IrFanView (with option: use current monitor profile) and Windows-Photos.

              But it looks much darker in Windows-Photo-viewer. (I don't use the last app.)


              So, my question now is....is my RAW-JPG (File: P1090340F.JPG) result quit OK.....if not (it is too gray) I must adjust the RAW... otherwise I should solve the problem in the calibration.

              .............Or am I wrong ?


              +++++++++++++++++Answer for SSPRENGEL ..he wrote: "To answer the original question, we can’t see ....."

              1e line is clear to me: you have NOT my monitor and the monitorprofile you can't test on your monitor.


              2e line... note: my monitorprofile is installed (by X-Rite) "system-wide" in de directory: C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color .....

              So I think PS is using that profile....but there is doubt....because I see now (red circle) there is sRGB...

              Calibration-1.jpg

              Should that be the following??? the latest monitor-profile made with X-Rite.

              BTW....it makes no difference on my screen.... so I thnk PS is using the systemwide monitorprofile already (the one I made by X-Rite)

              Calibration-2.jpg


              ScreenShot (according SSPRENGEL suggestion: 1) load image in PS .... 2) screen-capture (with: PS-color=sRGB) .... 3) open in PS ....

              SSPRENGEL wrote: and Assigned your monitor profile to it, then Converted the profile to sRGB....that step is not clear to me.... for me it seems the same way back as it was ?   below: the image with sRGB setting in the colormanagement-window

              ScreenCapture.jpg


              The more I look at the gray-problem the more I think it is depending on the angle looking at the screen ???? and / or maybe the ambient light ???? or cd=80cd ????

              also/btw: during calibration the calibration program asks to adjust the brightness. According the program it should be adjust higher, but it is already at 100%. As I understand well, the program takes this into account.

               


              Regards Fred


              ScreenShots of the calibration steps below

              1e Screenshot at start begin calibration with X-Rite i1 Display Pro.
              Screen 1.jpg

               

              2e screenshot

              Screen 2.jpg

               

              3e screenshot

              Screen 3.jpg

               

              4e screenshot

              Screen 4.jpg

               

              5e screenshot

              Screen 5.jpg

              • 4. Re: ACR + monitor calibration
                Yammer Level 4

                Like ssprengel said, you can't show us what your display looks like exactly with a screenshot. This is because your monitor displays the image a certain way and the monitor profile allows your colour managed applications to compensate for any measured discrepancies. We don't see these effects as they only happen on your computer.

                 

                I'd agree that 80 is a bit low for brightness (unless you're sat in the dark), but it very much depends on your light conditions. I usually vary between 100 and 120 depending on the time of year, with one medium-sized window in my office. I also adjust the target colour temperature to lower than typical at around 5500-6000K, and use iProfiler's ambient adjustment.

                 

                Windows Photo Viewer doesn't understand ICC v4 monitor profiles, which you are generating. I suggest changing this to v2 until Microsoft catches up with the rest of the world (don't hold your breath).

                 

                Your workspace profile in Photoshop should not be set to the monitor profile. People most often use sRGB, AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB. Choose appropriately for the type of work you do (e.g. AdobeRGB for printing).

                 

                Looking at your iProfiler settings, besides using ICC v2, I would also switch off ADC adjustment, as this doesn't always work well. Instead, adjust your monitor manually using the OSD controls and the iProfiler on-screen indicators. See if that gives you a better result. I also think that the "small" patch set is a bit too small. Try "medium" instead.

                • 5. Re: ACR + monitor calibration
                  Yammer Level 4

                  ...also, make sure your detector is plugged into a decent USB socket, preferably a built-in motherboard socket.

                  • 6. Re: Re: ACR + monitor calibration
                    Fred K. Level 1

                    Thanks SSPRENGEL and YAMMER,

                     

                    Yammer: I made the suggested things: cd=120....ICCv2....ADC=off....patch=medium....use-motherboard-usb-v3

                    result: the screen seems to me a little  brighter now after above suggestions (maybe because the 120cd in stead 80cd)

                     

                    Question: why ICC v2 in stead of ICC v4?

                     

                    Workspace: so the workspace below is the one that I must use? (PS then uses the std-system-wide profile .... the X-Rite-profile??)

                    WerkRuimte.jpg

                     

                    SSPRENGEL and YAMMER:

                    Ssprengel wrote that the JPG F version looks OK...on his monitor...so I think that means that the gray-problem (if it still exists now !!! ... I must say the image looks pretty Ok for me too now) I must search the solution in the ambient light... or the monitor-quality....or my own interpretation.


                    Thanks so far.


                    • 7. Re: Re: ACR + monitor calibration
                      Yammer Level 4

                      Fred K. wrote:

                       

                      Question: why ICC v2 in stead of ICC v4?

                       

                      Workspace: so the workspace below is the one that I must use? (PS then uses the std-system-wide profile .... the X-Rite-profile??)

                      WerkRuimte.jpg

                       

                      v4 profiles are not universally supported. If you use Windows, and you want the Microsoft utilities to display images correctly, you must use v2. This is because Microsoft isn't great at implementing colour management correctly, and they haven't caught up with v4 yet.

                       

                      You don't have to use any one profile.  Use the one which is best for you.  For example, if you mainly produce images for the web and cheap printers, then sRGB will probably be best.  If you have a good quality print process, you might want to use Adobe RGB instead.  If you want the best future-proof colour reproduction with a wide gamut, then ProPhotoRGB is more appropriate.  It's really down to you.

                      • 8. Re: Re: Re: ACR + monitor calibration
                        Fred K. Level 1

                        Thanks Yammer,

                         

                        1) ICC version: I have a Window-pc, so I understand to use ICC V2 (see also screenshot + link below).

                         

                        2) I have a camera the use sRGB as max colorspace, so I understand to use sRGB as profile setting.??

                        But:  because I use PS-ACR ...where Adobe RGB (1998) is defined to use...my image is "converted" at that point from sRGB to Adobe RGB (1998).......Is my thinking OK?

                         

                        (I do not printing images by myself, I always send my images to a photo centre)

                         

                        Thanks ! ....I'm beginning to understand color management is "tough matter".

                        Regards Fred


                        ScreenShot link: http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter

                         


                        ICC-V2-V4.jpg

                        • 9. Re: ACR + monitor calibration
                          Yammer Level 4

                          Assuming you are in the Camera Raw forum because you shoot Raw files, the colour profile set in your camera is largely irrelevant. Raw files do not have standard colour spaces. The purpose of the camera colour space setting is for the in-camera processing, which produces the preview image on the rear monitor and (optionally) a JPEG image.

                           

                          [Some people shoot JPEG and process these with Camera Raw too. Their options are severely limited this way, due to the constraints of the JPEG format, and the fact that much of the image data has already been discarded (and cannot be recovered).]

                           

                          Colour space is set at the time of conversion, in-camera or on the computer. In the case of ACR, the workspace settings at the bottom of the plug-in window determine the target colour space (not Photoshop).

                          test.jpg

                           

                          Photoshop's workspace colour space setting determines the default colour space for a new document. If you imported an ACR AdobeRGB conversion into Photoshop (with sRGB set as default Photoshop workspace), it would normally ask if you want to keep the AdobeRGB colour space, or convert to the working sRGB colour space. I mainly use Photoshop for photo retouching, so my workspace setting is AdobeRGB -- the same as my Camera Raw workspace setting.

                           

                          If I need images for the web, I use Save for Web to create an sRGB conversion.

                          • 10. Re: ACR + monitor calibration
                            Fred K. Level 1

                            Yammer,

                             

                            Thanks for your explanation, it helps me go forward....It's clear at the noment (so far!)

                            And....Yes I'am shooting RAW images.

                             

                            For the time being ...I can go forward now. Maybe in the future I will have questions, we'll see.

                             

                            Regards Fred