15 Replies Latest reply on Oct 21, 2014 2:59 PM by jephillips34

    InDesign Server 10 CC 2014

    pixelherde.de

      Hi there,

       

      we are using InDesign CS4 upt o CC 2014 and have some automation going with InDesign Server.

      Our latest InDesign Server is 9. This workflow can't handle CC 2014- Documents.

       

      Is there any Release-Date for InDesign Server CC 2014?

       

      Many thanks,

      Florian

        • 1. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
          Max Dunn Level 1

          Don't quote me, but we have high hopes that September is likely. In any case they would have to get through the "30 day uptime test" so there is inevitable latency between desktop and server release dates. Given that reality, it is great to build your workflows around IDML or some other XML model (we use SDXML) rather than InDesign binaries, if that is an option.

          • 2. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
            AJDValien Level 1

            Hey Max -

             

            Is InDesign Server 9 the current version? We have CS6 installed and I think it's listed as version 8 on the Adobe support site.

             

            Trying to determine if we should upgrade our CS6 instances to Server 9 or not. There is such poor documentation on this product at times.

            • 3. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
              Max Dunn Level 1

              Sorry for the delayed response. The good news is that CC 2014 is now available.

               

              As far as numbers: 9 was CC 2013 (I guess they just called it "CC"), 10 is CC 2014, and 10 is out now. Desktop 10.1 is out, server not yet: the two seem compatible though in terms of files and plugins. The reasons to upgrade would be compatibility with newer features, enhanced ePub export, and some scalability enhancements to server. We can imagine people riding out CS6 for quite some time yet most of our major clients are moving to the Creative Cloud and while InDesign doesn't tend to change a great deal there are some cool things and we believe in working with the current version of the product as you never know what could render CS6 obsolete and we do have hopes that it will continue to improve.

               

              The most substantive improvement from CS6 to CC for InDesign was the decarbonization of the Mac version. CC runs much better on the Mac as it has a better foundation. There continue to be feature enhancements and bug fixes but it is a fairly baked product. With CC they changed the extensibility model, and now you can still run your old Flash-based "CS Extensions" yet there is the potential these could go away. The CC extensions became very powerful with CC 2014 and are finally starting to eclipse the capabilities of the older Flash technology. So there is certainly a benefit in having CC 2014 on the client, and we think it a good idea to keep server and client consistent.

               

              There is definitely a delay between desktop and server releases (maybe 1-2 months historically), so as I said above it is good to use IDML or some other means of being ready to let server work with newer versions of desktop files.

              • 4. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                AJDValien Level 1

                Thanks for the detailed info Max. Very helpful. After chatting with our devs and such we'll probably start rolling out CC in the Spring and doing some backwards compatibility testing with our apps. So far things are working out fairly well with CS6 but having a good path forward will be helpful.

                 

                Appreciate your info.

                • 5. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                  jephillips34

                  I'm trying to figure out what exactly is meant by " some scalability enhancements to server". We have a multi-instance IDS service supporting customized document creation for multiple production web apps. Currently, each of the web apps are accessing one of the instances; I'd like to load-balance access to the IDS instances, based on availability.  The CC and 2014 IDS product pages specify that they support 'Job queuing and load balancing', but I can't find any further detail on what exactly that's supposed to mean.  In the IDS installation, there is still documentation pointing to LBQ, which depends on CORBA, which I believe was stripped out in the CS6 version (8).  Is there something else that I'm missing here?

                  • 6. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                    Harbs. Level 6

                    jephillips34 wrote:

                     

                    I'm trying to figure out what exactly is meant by " some scalability enhancements to server".

                    There's now something called "session" support where even a single instance servers can have some extent of multi-threading using "sessions". There's only session support when using SOAP. If you are using multi-instances, I don't think there's much benefit to sessions.

                     

                    jephillips34 wrote:

                     

                    The CC and 2014 IDS product pages specify that they support 'Job queuing and load balancing', but I can't find any further detail on what exactly that's supposed to mean.  In the IDS installation, there is still documentation pointing to LBQ, which depends on CORBA, which I believe was stripped out in the CS6 version (8).  Is there something else that I'm missing here?

                    LBQ is still there, but being it's not a complete product (it doesn't handle frozen instances, etc.) I never found much reason to explore it... I think that doc is just standard marketing material...

                     

                    Harbs

                    • 7. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                      AJDValien Level 1

                      We are actually using LBQ for our load-balance and multi-instances. It's working really well and I'm using NSSM to run the Java services as Windows services so that on reboots or log offs the LBQ still works.

                       

                      I have had 0 issues so far with the multi-instance/LBQ setup and things seem to be working pretty smooth out of the box.

                      • 8. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                        Harbs. Level 6

                        Interesting. So you've never had an instance of InDesign become unresponsive?

                        • 9. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                          AJDValien Level 1

                          To my knowledge we have not. I'm running 5 instances on 2 different servers and they are not processing hundreds of jobs a day (maybe a few dozen). Things are working fairly well and we've not heard any complaints or noticed any issues at all with the instances.

                          • 10. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                            jephillips34 Level 1

                            Allen, are you using IDS CS6 or later?  I had thought that CORBA support was dropped in CS6, and I was assuming, then, that the LBQ would no longer work with it.  Is that not the case?

                             

                            Before we updated to CS6, I was using CORBA.  My strategy has been to convert INDD to IDML, expand to XML files, customize the XML, repackage to IDML, open the customized IDML, and render to PDF or JPG. In implementing the SOAP interface, I basically created javascripts for each of those actions. Now I've got two implementations, SOAP and CORBA, of the same interface to the IDS, but the CORBA can only talk to the older CS5.5 IDS (unless they didn't REALLY drop CORBA support...). Unfortunately, the SOAP version seems to be much slower than the CORBA.  I haven't fully investigated why it's slower, but the primary directive was to support CS6 features, and SOAP was the only option.

                             

                            We are using SOAP sessions, which does allow multiple concurrent client sessions, but they are all hitting the same instance. We have multiple client webApps running on different servers; the clients that tend to generate alot of IDS traffic point to their own IDS instance, to spread out the load.  However, we often get flurrries of IDS activity from particular clients, and all that activity is directed to the one IDS instance, usually while most of the other instances are idle.  Ideally, I would like to have load-balancing to direct new sessions to whatever instance is most available, instead of just divvying up the private IDS instances between the web apps.

                             

                            When I was lookiing at what may have changed in IDS CC or 2014, I noticed the 'job queuing and load balancing' claims, and thought perhaps there were some new development there.  Apparently not.  I did finally figure out yesterday that I needed to apply for access to the CC IDS SDK, so I look forward to investigating that.

                             

                            If the LBQ is still functional in CS6 and beyond (if it somehow was exempted from the discontinuation of CORBA), then I would investigate using LBQ; however, that would mean implementing yet another version of my IDS client service, using the LBQ REST interface (does that sound about right?).

                             

                            Thanks to both of you, Harbs and Allen, for sharing your experience.  It's been really difficult to get this kind of information about ID Server.

                             

                            -John

                            • 11. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                              Harbs. Level 6

                              AJDValien wrote:

                               

                              To my knowledge we have not. I'm running 5 instances on 2 different servers and they are not processing hundreds of jobs a day (maybe a few dozen). Things are working fairly well and we've not heard any complaints or noticed any issues at all with the instances.

                              Ah. We could be processing thousands of jobs a day using documents of unknown origin. We've definitely had to kill unresponsive instances. (Not very often mind you.) Ensuring that instances do not become unresponsive is a big deal for us.

                               

                              Harbs

                              • 12. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                                Harbs. Level 6

                                jephillips34 wrote:

                                 

                                Before we updated to CS6, I was using CORBA.  My strategy has been to convert INDD to IDML, expand to XML files, customize the XML, repackage to IDML, open the customized IDML, and render to PDF or JPG. In implementing the SOAP interface, I basically created javascripts for each of those actions. Now I've got two implementations, SOAP and CORBA, of the same interface to the IDS, but the CORBA can only talk to the older CS5.5 IDS (unless they didn't REALLY drop CORBA support...). Unfortunately, the SOAP version seems to be much slower than the CORBA.  I haven't fully investigated why it's slower, but the primary directive was to support CS6 features, and SOAP was the only option.

                                 

                                My understanding was that they did not drop CORBA,they just dropped the Java scripting interface. I could be misunderstanding because I never used Java with InDesign Server. In fact, I don't use SOAP either. We have our own home-grown load balancing and queuing system which has pretty elaborate handling of different types of job priorities and we handle all network activity using php.

                                 

                                Harbs

                                • 13. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                                  AJDValien Level 1

                                  Originally when I had 1 instance running I just had SOAP implemented. Worked out great. But as traffic grew I added more instances and have switched to using REST for the client interface. I managed the InDesign instances using the InDesignServerService.msc and for each instance I'm running this config:

                                   

                                  -LogToApplicationEventLog -configuration IOR4 -iorfile C:\InDesignLBQ\LBQ\iors\ior4.txt -pluginpath Server/Corba

                                   

                                  And each instance has it's own port # assigned. In theory you could connect to each instance individually on their own ports since they are still listening for connections. But since I'm using the LBQ I have my apps hit the LBQ port (8080). That in turn routes it to whichever instance is open.

                                   

                                  We are using the sample Clover one that came with CS6 with no customization and it's using CORBA as well. I used NSSM to run it as a service since by default it runs it in a command shell and breaks if you log off the server (Windows 2008 R2).

                                   

                                  I'm not Java expert nor CORBA expert and compared to you all we're probably running a pretty lightweight setup. If we start having queing or scaling issues I might have to revisit things.

                                   

                                  All this is CS6 on Windows 2008R2 and we're taking .IDML files and processing them into .PDF's or .JPG's.

                                  • 14. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                                    jephillips34 Level 1

                                    Harbs. wrote:

                                     

                                    My understanding was that they did not drop CORBA,they just dropped the Java scripting interface.

                                     

                                    Harbs, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll probably start looking at the LBQ approach more seriously.

                                     

                                    It would be nice if I could just stick a load-balancer in front of all the available IDS instances, but I'm not sure how that would maintain sessions with a particular instance, as these are all a series of commands (open doc, render doc, close doc) which all need to hit the same instance.

                                    • 15. Re: InDesign Server 10 CC 2014
                                      jephillips34 Level 1

                                      Of course, as soon as I write that, I realize that I only set up my javascripts that way because I was replicating the CORBA java api commands on-to-one. If I re-write those scripts to take care of business with one call, I don't have to worry about sessions.