15 Replies Latest reply on Aug 28, 2014 1:39 AM by oneoff_swe

    TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame

    oneoff_swe Level 1

      I have a problem with my TOC and have found similar threads on the net but not any solution.

       

      I have for example two pages looking as:

      --------------------------Page 1------------------

      Chapter 1 (H1)

           Chapter 1:1 (H2)

           Chapter 1:2 (H2)

           Chapter 1:3 (H2)

       

      --------------------------Page 2------------------

           Chapter 1:4 (H2)

      Chapter 2 (H1)

           Chapter 2:1 (H2)

           Chapter 2:2 (H2)

       

      If I connect the text frames containing the complete Chapter 1 and have a separeate text frame for Chapter 2 the TOC gets wrong, see below.

      Though if Chapter 1:4 is within an isolated textframe everything seems to be correct.

      So FRUSTRATING! Is there any solution for this, to have a nice flow with connected text frames and working TOC?

       

      ------TOC--------

      Chapter 1 (H1)

           Chapter 1:1 (H2)

           Chapter 1:2 (H2)

           Chapter 1:3 (H2)

       

      Chapter 2 (H1)

           Chapter 2:1 (H2)

           Chapter 2:2 (H2)

           Chapter 1:4 (H2)

       

      For example, see:

      Working: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80393702/Working%20Not%20Connected%20Frames.indd

      Faulty: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80393702/Faulty%20Connected%20Frames.indd

        • 1. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
          Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

          Hi,

           

          Why do you unchain the text frames? Chaining all them fix your problem! 

          • 2. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
            oneoff_swe Level 1

            It actually does, but this is a poor solution.

             

            The textboxes are apparently separated because I don’t want text to flow
            between the frames. I want them to be separated to make certain that there is no text in front
            of the heading and to work with the layout without any bindings.

            • 3. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
              Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

              Sorry! I don't understand what you mean. Can you send a screenshot of the effect you want to avoid! Thanks!

              • 4. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                oneoff_swe wrote:

                 

                It actually does, but this is a poor solution.

                 

                The textboxes are apparently separated because I don’t want text to flow
                between the frames. I want them to be separated to make certain that there is no text in front
                of the heading and to work with the layout without any bindings.

                All of that can be handled with Keep Options in the paragraph styles...

                • 5. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                  oneoff_swe Level 1

                  Here is a screenshot from the example I linked to in my original post. As
                  you can see in the TOC "Chapter 1:4" is misplaced. Common sense would
                  say that it should be placed below "Chapter 1" and not "Chapter
                  2".

                   

                  The problem is solved either by creating a separate/unconnected frame for the 1:4 or, as you suggested, connect the frame
                  to "Chapter 2". None of the solutions are quite bright in a layout
                  perspective.

                   

                   

                  Faulty Example.png

                  • 6. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                    oneoff_swe Level 1

                    Should I add the Keep option in the H2 paragraph setting, or what do you suggest?

                    • 7. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                      Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

                      It's not what I mean. Show us what you want to avoid in the layout that justifies you use several text frames? Not about the TOC.

                      • 8. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        oneoff_swe wrote:

                         

                        Should I add the Keep option in the H2 paragraph setting, or what do you suggest?

                        I don't know what you want to start on a new page or in a new columns, so I can't say. Do you want the chapter 1.4 text orphaned in a column by itself?

                         

                        Looking at the screen shot, I would also think that making the main heads span columns would also work.

                        • 9. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                          oneoff_swe Level 1

                          Peter: I just want to flow the text from one page to another. I have no further criteria about breaks or similar for chapter 1.4. Unfortunately there is a brake in my example, but it could be plain text that flowed between the pages where chapter 1.4 followed, as the previous chapters do.

                           

                          What do you mean with "...main heads span columns would also work." Isn't this what the heading already does (see the underline), spanning over the two columns. Sorry for not comprehending.

                           

                           

                          Obi-wan: I can see several advantages having separate text frames.

                          • It is possible to move a chapter wherever I want in my document structure without having previous text flowing to the wrong place.
                          • When adding text I don’t have a lot of following breaks to clean up which have moved to another place than what was intended. Instead the text frame becomes overflown, which is easier to layout.

                          Am I wrong?

                          • 10. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            It does appear to be what is currently happening, so I don't quite understand why you are not running one continuous thread.

                             

                            If you want to you can continue to use a new frame for each chapter start, just add a keep option to the header style to start in next frame and it will not flow back (though you may find you need to make the previous frame larger to prevent text from flowing into the one you expect the start the chapter.

                            • 11. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                              oneoff_swe Level 1

                              I found the problem! In the chapter heading style I changed the "Span Columns/Paragraph layout" to "Single Column" instead of spanning over two columns. Updating the TOC and Voila I have a correct sorted TOC!

                               

                              So, is there any chance that I can span the heading and still have correct sorted TOC. Using CS 6....

                               

                              The spanning is due to the company's graphical profile, but previous documents have been created in FrameMaker.

                               

                               

                              The main reason not creating a continues thread is that I have in round numbers 132 documents with 15 pages each with this TOC problem. (We found the problem after receiving the documents from our translation agency.) So I still hope there is a minor fix which I can easily sync to all documents.

                              • 12. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                                SHD7PL

                                Hey oneoff_swe,

                                 

                                we got a similar problem with our TOC. Unfortunately we couldn't find a solution so far - only a workaround, which causes other problems.

                                I used your faulty-document you linked in your first post and the workaround works as well.

                                 

                                Insert a few empty paragraphs after your last textblock and resize the text frame that a few of the emtpy paragraphs are in the "overtext". See below.

                                With the hidden paragraphs the TOC should be correct. Unfortunately there's a fault shown in the preflght, so this workaround is not a good solution - and I don't understand the logic why this works...

                                bug5.jpg

                                I found the problem! In the chapter heading style I changed the "Span Columns/Paragraph layout" to "Single Column" instead of spanning over two columns. Updating the TOC and Voila I have a correct sorted TOC!

                                 

                                I tried to rebuild this solution but it didn't work for me. Where exactly do you make this changes? In this menu (see screenshot below)?

                                bug6.jpg

                                • 13. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                                  oneoff_swe Level 1

                                  Thanks for the tip. But I'll prefer to trust the preflight instead of solving this problem with overflown text-frames.

                                   

                                  Yepp, that is the setting I refer to. If I change it to "Single Column" the TOC becomes correct.

                                   

                                  New workaround:

                                  I noticed that if I added a table after the spanned heading the TOC become correctly sorted....

                                  If this seems odd, take a look at this:

                                  After removing the table and updating the TOC the ordering remained correct. Just by adding an object and then removing it?

                                   

                                  Fixed Faulty Example.png

                                  • 14. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                                    SHD7PL Level 1

                                    This doesn't work for our case, not comprehensible either...


                                    We also found out:

                                    When the textframe flows from an even page number to an uneven page number the problem (like from page 2 to page 3) the TOC is incorrect.

                                    But when the textframe flows from an uneven page number to an even page number (like from page 3 to page 4) the TOC is correct.


                                    You can try it, just add an page before to your faulty document (see screenshot) and the TOC is correct.

                                    bug8.jpg


                                    Unfortunately all workarounds cause other problems..


                                     

                                     

                                    • 15. Re: TOC Problem, Wrong Order, Connected/Unconnected Text Frame
                                      oneoff_swe Level 1

                                      That explains why my table workaround worked. To make a nice screenshot I renumbered the first page so the two pages were beside each other. Renumber it back and adding a table didn't fix the TOC...

                                       

                                      Edit: I have split up the text-frames in the document that causes the trouble, created unthreaded text frames. TOC sorts correctly, but my crossreferences to these headings are lost. Damn!