32 Replies Latest reply on Oct 25, 2014 4:50 PM by ssprengel

    Exported files are grainy

    hking1323 Level 1

      I have Lightroom 5.6 but still having issues with exporting, as I apply "Luminance" but images exported do not have the effect I applied! They don't even show skin smoothing effects I added!

        • 1. Re: Exported files are grainy
          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Are you judging the effect at 1:1/100% zoom, or using a reduced-size view, either in LR or after you’ve exported? 

           

          Also, what export sharpening are you applying and are you resizing as you export?

          • 2. Re: Exported files are grainy
            hking1323 Level 1

            Judging the effect at 1:1. The difference is extremely noticeable. NO export sharpening at all. Trust me I have been trying everything!

            • 3. Re: Exported files are grainy
              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Can we see what you’re seeing—screenshots?  The view in Develop, the view after Export at 100% and the Detail and Export settings?

               

              If you want someone else to test, post a raw file with your settings in an accompanying XMP, or a DNG with updated metadata, or JPG with updated metadata, using http://www.dropbox.com/ or similar hosting site.


              Also make sure you're not exporting with the file format as "Original" which will ignore all LR adjustments and just copy the original file.  If this is happening, then I expect you're editing a JPG because exporting Original as a raw file would just copy the raw file, again, and this would obviously not be a JPG.

              • 4. Re: Exported files are grainy
                hking1323 Level 1

                Huh? Please simplify everything you just said... Also, I am editing a JPEG not RAW file. Is there no explanation for this not working, I have seen others with the same issues. One person posted a picture of a cowboy before and after adding luminance, then after exporting the luminance did not apply. This is all I need to know... why won't the luminance apply after exporting!

                • 5. Re: Exported files are grainy
                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I'd suspect that either you're viewing your original JPG not the exported JPG, or you have Export / File Settings / Image Format set as Original instead of JPG which merely copies the original file, again, rather than making a copy with your LR adjustments.

                   

                  Try adjusting the Exposure to something ridiculously high or low and do the Export and see if the Exposure setting is exported but the Luminance settings is not. 

                  • 6. Re: Exported files are grainy
                    hking1323 Level 1

                    No, Im not viewing my original file. This is obvious as I have used some presets, color adjustments that are exporting fine. Also, I have Export/file settings/image format set as JPEG. So its obvious to me that it is ONLY the luminance that is not working.

                    • 7. Re: Exported files are grainy
                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Does this happen with all your photos or only this particular one? Are you resizing during Export?  There was a bug in very early versions of LR 5 that were supposedly fixed long since, where NR and sharpening weren’t being applied if resizing to less than 1/3rd the original dimensions.  So make sure you are actually running LR 5.6 and it's not a shortcut to an older version, somehow.  About LR x.x should tell you what version.

                       

                      I’d like to see an example file, if you could either send me one to my e-mail steve at sprengels dot com or put it on dropbox and post a public download link, here.

                      • 8. Re: Exported files are grainy
                        Turk12345 Level 1

                        I have documented the same problem.  I just finished a set of imported JPGs to include Noise reduction.  All views in Lightroom show the improved image.  After exporting as a full size JPG, the grain has actually increased on all of the images.  I've backed down on all the setting to see if they are causing the problem, but that did not help.

                         

                        This is a very aggravating issue for me as I had hoped to improve a clients "point & shoot" images to something that could be used on the web.  I can take a screen shot of a "side by side" before and after, save as a JPG and it clearly shows improvement in the "after" image.  It actually exports and image that is grainier than the original!

                         

                        This is a problem.  I'm going to "edit in photoshop" out of lightroom to see if I can get around this.

                        • 9. Re: Exported files are grainy
                          Turk12345 Level 1

                          I just used "edit in another program" and sent a copy with Lightroom adjustments to 2014 PS.    The NR does not come with it.

                          • 10. Re: Exported files are grainy
                            dj_paige Level 9

                            So show us the side by side screen capture of photo in Lightroom without grain and exported with grain.

                             

                            Also show us your export dialog settings that you used, particularly the sharpening and the Image Sizing

                            • 11. Re: Exported files are grainy
                              Turk12345 Level 1

                              I've now brought it over to PS 2014.  The noise reduction  does not work in PS.  It says it is applying it, but it does not work.  The preview for the NR panel does not show any improvement when you move the sliders.  It seems as if the file produced by Lightroom is in a locked state.

                               

                              I am using an IMAC with 10.9.5 OS.

                              • 12. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                dj_paige Level 9

                                The noise reduction  does not work in PS.  It says it is applying it, but it does not work

                                Are you applying noise reduction and viewing the image zoomed in to 1:1, or not? You may not see noise reduction unless you zoom in

                                It seems as if the file produced by Lightroom is in a locked state.

                                This can't happen, its impossible

                                 

                                Are you going to show us the screen captures I requested?

                                • 14. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                  dj_paige Level 9

                                  This is the develop module before and after view, this isn't showing un-exported and exported. This doesn't address the issue you stated at the beginning about exported photos being grainy.

                                   

                                  Also, what software are you using to view the exported photo after you export it?

                                   

                                  We'd also need to see a screen capture of your export settings, as I requested earlier.

                                  • 15. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                    Keith_Reeder Level 4

                                    dj_paige wrote:

                                     

                                    This is the develop module before and after view, this isn't showing un-exported and exported. This doesn't address the issue you stated at the beginning about exported photos being grainy.

                                    I think we can assume that this represents what Turk expects to see from his exported file, and what he's actually seeing, DJ.

                                     

                                    FWIW, I'm absolutely convinced there's an issue with Lr's NR on export too - the same "what you see is not what you get" when comparing the Lr preview and the actual output.

                                     

                                    Turk (and HKing if he/she is still about) - just as an information point, which camera?

                                    • 16. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                      dj_paige Level 9

                                      I think we can assume that this represents what Turk expects to see from his exported file, and what he's actually seeing, DJ.

                                      I make no such assumption, and I await Turk providing screen captures, side-by-side, of the difference between Lightroom version and exported version. I also await Turk answering the other questions I asked.

                                       

                                      FWIW, I'm absolutely convinced there's an issue with Lr's NR on export too

                                      There have been plenty of reports alleging this, so I believe there's an issue as well, whether or not this is the same issue that Turk is having is not established.

                                      • 17. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                        Turk12345 Level 1

                                        Here are the NR settings in LR:

                                         

                                        Lightroom_5_Catalog_lrcat_-_Adobe_Photoshop_Lightroom_-_Develop.jpg

                                        • 18. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                          Turk12345 Level 1

                                          I will give this a try but I probably should do a link to a full size image. 

                                           

                                          Here is the two image displayed in PS 2014.  This is also what I get if I just preview the image.

                                           

                                          Left is original.  Right is exported at same size in LR to a non compressed JPG.  Same files size and shape.

                                           

                                          Menubar.jpg

                                          • 19. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                            Turk12345 Level 1

                                            As you can see, the LR Noise reduction is not applied to the right image as it should be.  Further more I can use Noise filter in PS to add NR but it does not work at all!  Sliders have no affect.

                                            • 20. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                              Turk12345 Level 1

                                              Here is the same image in LR with NR applied.

                                               

                                              Screenshot_10_24_14__1_17_PM.jpg

                                              • 21. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                Turk12345 Level 1

                                                I miss spoke about the one two images in PS 2014.  My older PS came up instead.   The NR problem still exists in the 2014 version of PS though.  Noise reduction will not apply under the noise filter.  I tried the original JPG in PS and it does allow for a noise filter to be applied.

                                                 

                                                I can only assume that LR is changing the file some way.  What ever it is doing, it is affecting not only the lack or export NR, but also is locking the file so that NR cannot be changed in PS.  Definitely a problem.

                                                • 22. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                  Turk12345 Level 1

                                                  Almost forgot the export window.  Here it is:

                                                   

                                                  Export_One_File_and_Lightroom_5_Catalog_lrcat_-_Adobe_Photoshop_Lightroom_-_Develop.jpg

                                                  • 23. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                    Turk12345 Level 1

                                                    I noticed that many of the functions in PS 2014 were not working.  After restarting it and reloading the images, the NR is now working, although very subtle compared to what I am use to.  I just signed up for Adobes "package" online and it upgraded my old PS.

                                                     

                                                    The problems with exporting a JPG and LR Noise reduction remain.

                                                     

                                                    If anyone would like me to do anything further, let me know. 

                                                    • 24. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                      Turk12345 Level 1

                                                      I've been using LR from the very start and have processed 30,000 pictures in it.  I reset all the images to original and reprocess them all again.  No settings have changed in the software.  None of my procedures are different.  The JPG's that I just exported now have the NR. 

                                                       

                                                      I still believe a problem exhausts in the LR software.  There must be something that caused the original problem.  I used "Sync" to apply the same amount of NR to all of the images.  That's how I normally would do it.  I'm guessing something was not being picked up by the export program.  There is no other explanation for this and  I truly believe the software has some odd complex error going on.  I recreated 24 images over and over with the NR not exporting  and after starting over from scratch (re-setting the images) , it now works.  The documentation stands on it's own.

                                                       

                                                      That said I've spent a lot of time on this and I hardly ever handle JPGs.  I believe the other that have experienced this are also experiencing a software glitch that happens when a certain sequence is hit and remains that way until resetting of the images removes the problem.  Now I've past the point were I can do any more testing.  It would have been nice to compare the file structure of the applied settings before the problem was solved to what they are now.  The error may not show itself to me again

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Here are two image before and after (right)  Left original.  Right newly exported jpg WITH noise removal.

                                                       

                                                      Rafes12_jpg_and_Rafes12_org_JPG_and_Second_try.jpg.

                                                      • 25. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        Every time I see a thread like this I am hoping to see evidence of an actual problem, but so far, the only documented issue with recent versions of LR 5.5+ is that people are using Fit zoom instead of 1:1 or 100% zoom to judge their Detail panel adjustments, which cannot be accurate.


                                                        The first part of this thread has no examples, only assertions, and when examples are asked for the replies cease.

                                                         

                                                        The second part of this thread, with the observatory shot, does include screenshots but they all, except maybe the last pair where things are said to be working, appear to be Fit zoom which is not accurate.  To me they appear to be Fit view zoom because there are uneven borders on the top and bottom vs left and right, as well as the 25% along the title bar in PS.

                                                         

                                                        This sort of discussion is usually about raw files where noise-grain is usually much more obvious, so maybe JPGs are handled differently and there could still be a bug, but of course, now things seem to be working and it's unclear why. 

                                                         

                                                        For future reference if you are trying to say that Export isn't doing something you expect at the pixel-level detail, then post a side-by-side of the Develop After view and the OS Preview view of the exported file BOTH AT 1:1 or 100% ZOOM.

                                                         

                                                        One problem may be that people don't even have the Zoom control visible in Develop so don't really have a good sense of when their viewing what.

                                                        • 26. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                          Turk12345 Level 1

                                                          Several of you are falling back on the idea that we are not looking at things at the right zoom level.  Just because it is difficult to post any actual size images here, does not mean that the person posting does not know what he is talking about.  Can't you trust someone when they say it is not exporting the NR information?  Give some of us credit for having a little bit of experience with doing this (I've exported literally tens of thousands of images in all kinds of formats).  I've used Lightroom from the very first version and I've taught many dozens of people to use the program.  I also resolved the issue myself with no help from anyone here.  That said, I think it would be in your best interest to not assume the poster is wrong is his assessment and that the images posted are in fact representations of what he is seeing and what the program is doing.  I don't know if Adobe even views this forum, but I certainly don't think it is very helpful for several of you to not be objective and to help with issues like this.  I've been working with computers and people who work with computers for over 45 years and I would never take a "holier than thou" attitude if someone came to me with a problem.  That's how I felt here.  

                                                           

                                                          I apologize if that rubs a few of you the wrong way, but community forums are here for helping those that need help through people that have the experience and knowledge to be of some help.  We're all in the same boat here, the more you know the more help you can give.  I just stopped by cause I had a problem . . .

                                                          • 27. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                            areohbee Level 5

                                                            Basically, what ssprengel said.., but also:

                                                             

                                                            If there is a bug, and you're savvy enough to be sure about it, then:

                                                            * gather up the "proof" (hint: must be reproducible by Adobe).

                                                            * submit a bug report on the feedback site (not here).

                                                             

                                                            Bugs such as this are generally fixed in a timely fashion, if Adobe becomes convinced there is one, but currently Adobe is convinced there isn't (or so it seems to me from the outside - maybe they know dang well that there's a problem, and have already reproduced it, and are just keeping quiet about it - wouldn't be the first time..).

                                                             

                                                            PS - I'm not having the problem, and at this point there is a "boy who cried wolf" syndrome at play - I no longer take the reports seriously (whether there's a real "wolf" threatening now or not), but maybe somebody else will..

                                                             

                                                            Good luck,

                                                            Rob

                                                            • 28. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              I believe you that you saw something happening you didn't expect.  That is a long way from Adobe being able to reproduce something for themselves internally, which is ultimately what makes any reports, here, useful.

                                                              • 29. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                                Keith_Reeder Level 4

                                                                Turk,

                                                                 

                                                                you're under NO obligation to prove yourself to anyone here - we're all just users - but it's worth pushing this into the bug reporting forum (unfortunately - being an Adobe forum - I've no idea where it is these days, but someone else might be able to provide the link).

                                                                 

                                                                As to confirming this problem, I've provided concrete evidence of it here before, but here it is again: first image, a 100% crop of an exported (at full size, 16 bit tiff) 1600 ISO Canon 70D file, with no Lr Luma NR; second file is a similar crop, with Luma NR at 20 (much, much higher than I would ever have used in the past).

                                                                 

                                                                There's no difference between them. There is in the Lr preview - a huge difference - but on export, the NR isn't being applied. (Chroma NR is at default, and - perversely - is being applied).

                                                                 

                                                                lr_no_nr.jpg

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                lr_20_nr.jpg

                                                                • 30. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                                  Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  There was a bug a few versions ago where NR would not get applied upon export if you scaled to certain sizes. They fixed that one. As the others said, please post screenshots of 1:1 views. Not that we don't trust you but every single time with this sort of thing it turns out to be the issue that the person experiencing a problem simply refuses to look at the image 1:1 and as soon as they do it turns out they are identical. I have no clue whether this is the case or not here without 1:1 zoom screenshots. The problem is that the zoomed out views in Develop (not in Library) are highly inaccurate (read cannot be trusted at all) with respect to noise reduction if the original image is very noisy. You should really only touch the sharpening and noise reduction sliders when you are at 1:1 or higher magnification. Otherwise they simply won't have the effect you think they have. You could actually consider this a bug in Lightroom. It should do a better job previewing or simply disable the sliders at lower magnification. Bottom line is that you need to compare the export to the image in Lightroom at 1:1 to see if the NR gets applied or not.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                                    Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    Keith,

                                                                     

                                                                    I see no difference indeed in your files. I just tried it myself and for me NR clearly gets applied upon export. Not clear what the difference is. Note that luminance at 20 is not high at all. It will usually only have a subtle effect and will spend on the other two sliders whether it will have effect at all. Can you export these images with Lightroom set to export all metadata? There are no settings included in the files at all.

                                                                     

                                                                    Here is what I get upon export. This is an ISO 25600 file. Everything at default except for the NR luminance setting and the extreme crop.

                                                                     

                                                                    NR 0:

                                                                    NR0.jpg

                                                                    NR 20:

                                                                    NR20.jpg

                                                                    NR 40:

                                                                    NR40.jpg

                                                                    Clearly luminance noise reduction gets applied upon export on my installation. You can also see that from the file sizes of the jpeg file as the more noisy, the larger the file when using jpeg compression:

                                                                    NR 0: 419 kB

                                                                    NR 20: 374 kB

                                                                    NR 40: 338 kB

                                                                    • 32. Re: Exported files are grainy
                                                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      And we are also under no obligation to believe you or Turk or anyone.  This is not a jury trial where a something is deemed true when 12 or a majority of 12 people agrees with you, nor is this a group of friends or a support group where people decide to agree with you to make you feel good because they like you or care about you, right?  This is about a potential issue with a computer program where a computer program will produce the same output given the same inputs, and we're asking for inputs, not just your view of the output.

                                                                       

                                                                      The two green JPGs posted have camera settings embedded in them but no camera-raw settings embedded in them so what settings were used cannot be deduced from the attached JPGs other than they were processed with LR 5.5, apparently.  The uncropped exported TIFs might have this information but the JPGs do not.

                                                                       

                                                                      I have tried camera raw files from various cameras including the 70D and I have never seen NR not applied for my exports, so this is not a wide-spread bug, that affects all files or all files from a particular camera.  Maybe there was something quirky with either the telescope JPGs or the green raw files, but without those there is no evidence of anyone to test.

                                                                       

                                                                      Because the previous recent discussion with the telescope images seemed to be about possible problems starting with JPGs I decided to try things starting with the NO-NR green jpg.  I imported that into LR, applied Lum NR 50 and this NR setting does appear to be applied to the exported which I reimported into LR and displayed side-by-side at 1:1 zoom so differences in zoom and previewer app didn't enter into what is seen:

                                                                       

                                                                      For anyone who wants to examine the exported JPG displayed at the right, above, here it is, and you'll be able to examine the metadata and see Luminance Smoothing is 50:

                                                                      lr_no_nr_JPG_thenLRLumNR50.jpg

                                                                       

                                                                      Edited:  Something appears off with the lr_no_nr.jpg included in the message, above, in that LR cannot write metadata to the JPG if I change settings and tell LR to.  Instead LR reports an error.  Just to be sure, I cleared my browser cache, re-downloaded the JPG from the message, removed and reimported the JPG into LR, then adjusted the LR Lum NR to 50 and clicked on the exclamation point and it would not work, reporting an Unknown File Format.

                                                                      --

                                                                      There was as problem with a recent version of the DNG Converter ignoring any customized CR defaults or existing XMP metadata and always applying Adobe factory defaults when converting to DNGs, not sure if it is the current DNGC 8.6 or the previous DNGC 8.5 with the problem, but if the DNG Converter was always applying Adobe defaults to things maybe whatever that bug was also affected a bit of the CR engine in LR although I do remember that LR's conversion to DNGs did seem to work properly while the DNGC's didn't.

                                                                       

                                                                      What is important to getting any possible bug fixed is Adobe having input files that show a problem for Adobe, in house, with the current version of software.