1 2 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply on Apr 24, 2016 4:26 PM by sharpart

    Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly

    adam_kelly_77 Level 1

      I'm having a problem with ligatures appearing uninvited in my Indesign CC documents. I'm an artworker and this is making me very nervous when sending out files to print. Quitting/restarting Indesign will generally resolve the problem. I haven't been able to isolate a situation that triggers this and I've experimented using different fonts, font types, etc. Sometimes I can open the same document 5 times with the ligatures appearing and on the sixth time it fixes itself.

       

      I've trashed preferences which hasn't helped. I have turned off ligatures in the character panel with all documents closed. I've checked the paragraph styles of the documents that are exhibiting the problem and turned off ligatures in character panel, but after saving and closing the document, they reappear when I reopen. Quitting Indesign is the only way to (temporarily) resolve the issue.

       

      I haven't run the latest update, but this problem has occurred across the last 2 or 3 Indesign CC updates. I'm using Universal Type Client 4.0.1 on OSX 10.9.4. Other people in my studio running effectively the same hardware/software are also experiencing the problem.

       

      Any assistance most appreciated.

      Adam

        • 1. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          There are two places to check for Ligature activation in the Character Panel menu -- the main menu where they are on by default, and the OpenType submenu where Discretionary Ligatures is off (I think) by default.

          • 2. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
            babci Level 1

            You are not alone. In our Pre-Press area we have 13 MAC workstations all setup with InDesign CC2014 latest patches installed, Univeral Type Client 4.2 (don't go any higher there will be issues), OS 10.9.4.

             

            This is happening both on customer supplied files and files we create in-house. Happens with Type 1 fonts and Open Type fonts. Sometimes the characters are not even valid ligature combinations. One time it will be fine the next it will be incorrect.

             

            I am currently working on a costly project redo for a client for this very reason. Client as you'd suspect is not a happy camper.

             

            I have everyone using the EDIT-Find/Change feature (Find format) to search all text with ligatures and turn the command off. We have saved it as a custom query. Otherwise we would need to select all text boxes. This makes fixes files a little quicker.

             

            We changed our default to no ligatures but that only works on new files we create internally. Unfortunately the ligatures on is a preference at the file level.

             

            Time to post this to Adobe support. I thought we were alone.

            • 3. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              I'm curious if the problem remains if you turn off the UTC autoactivation plugin.

              • 4. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                babci Level 1

                we have not tried this...since it is a random issue i will need to work with this options off for a few days and see if I have the issue

                • 5. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                  adam_kelly_77 Level 1

                  Any further developments Babci? Sorry for delayed reply - I'm in Australia and the last couple of times I've check back on the forum, it's been down for maintenance, which happens when you aren't in USA timezones.

                  I'm still seeing the problem every other day, different fonts, different files. Luckily, I haven't been caught out sending a file to print with the ligatures in it. I fear its a matter of time though, particularly with other people in my studio who are not as focused on art working files.

                  • 6. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                    babci Level 1

                    tried turning auto-activation off problem still persists

                    • 7. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                      babci Level 1

                      This issue is still occurring.

                       

                      I am in contact with Adobe support and have an open ticket on this. I asked that they look at their blog boards to see that I am not the only one experiencing this.

                       

                      They questions that they keep coming back to with me are:

                      What printer am I using? (it's more than one we have variety all with latest drivers and Heidelberg Prinect)

                      What font? (it is all fonts and both Type 1 and Open Type?

                      Is it just when I make a PDF? (no, the InDesign file presents the problem also)

                      Does a restart of InDesign fix the issue? (yes but unless you turn off ligatures, the problem may pop up again down the road)

                       

                      I sent them a few files to look at but no solid reply as of yet. In the meantime I have made it a department procedure to turn off ligatures. I advised everyone to write a customer find/change query to remove the ligatures through find format. My internal files I can control (about 60 a day) but I do not have that control on customer files.

                       

                      Let's keep at them for a solution!!!!!

                      • 8. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                        adam_kelly_77 Level 1

                        Still popping up in my files with no obvious pattern to what is triggering it.

                         

                        Soo frustrating. Thankfully haven't sent out artwork to print with ligatures yet, but it's only matter of time until a tight deadline job goes through with it.

                         

                        Bizarre that this isn't a priority for Adobe to fix.

                        • 9. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                          BriGuyAG Level 1

                          I just noticed this for the very first time, myself. Copied/pasted a line of text from a client's email message into an InDesign CC 2014 document and "Orioles" suddenly became "OrÚles."

                           

                          Turned off Ligatures and it fixed itself.

                           

                           

                          • 10. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                            Javed_ali Adobe Employee

                            HI All,

                             

                            Sorry to see you guys facing the issue.

                            Not sure if its resolved already or not.
                            If anyone is still facing the issue it would be nice if you could share the any file in which you are facing the issue with us. Please mail the same at sharewithid@adobe.com . Please also mention some steps which you perform so that the issue can be reproduced at our end.

                             

                            Thanks and Regards

                            Javed

                            • 11. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                              adam_kelly_77 Level 1

                              Hi Javed,

                               

                              I'm not able to supply any files – they are confidential.

                               

                              I haven't noticed any common steps in the lead up to the ligatures turning on, other than it seems to happen mainly after a file has been packaged. The other environmentals are in my original post – Indesign 9.2.2

                               

                              Two out of 6 designers in our studio of experienced the issue.

                               

                              Adam

                              • 12. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                RickGroff Level 1

                                You are not alone! The problem I've seen with ligatures under CC is that they sometimes don't show up--and sometimes they do. I had a job that was originally paged in CS6 with ligatures (just the standard fi and fl). When opened in CC2014 there were no ligatures. Ended up having to search and replace them manually. I thought it might be because the file had been updated to a newer version, but even saving as IDML and reopening in CC didn't help. Other jobs started in CC with ligatures turned on and with different fonts sometimes show ligatures, sometimes not.

                                 

                                That's what's so frustrating about CC: I've seen so many little problems, mostly with the UI, that I'm seriously considering using CC only for saving down files so I can work on them without fear in CS6!

                                • 13. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                  adam_kelly_77 Level 1

                                  Hi Rick,

                                   

                                  I've sent example files to Adobe and so they are now fully aware of the issue and can hopefully resolve it.

                                   

                                  I had a file yesterday that was exhibiting the problem and some of the tests I did threw up some worrying behaviour. Duplicating the problem file in the same folder and opening it not only turned off the ligatures, but it also turned off the ligatures in the original problem file. I then closed the duplicate and the ligatures turned back on.

                                   

                                  I also changed the font of the character pairs that were creating the ligature, which fixed the problem, even if it was just changing to a different weight of the same typeface. I then applied the paragraph style in use on the problem characters to a paragraph that used the same typeface and weight in another place in the document - that introduced the problem to those characters too. Problem is the ligature settings in both para styles are identical.

                                   

                                  The other problem was when I stripped out 11 of the 12 pages from the document to send it to Adobe, including all of the HR images, the file size didn't change from 64 mb, even though the document was 1 page with 1 image in it and a few paragraphs of type.

                                   

                                  Bottom line - if you quit Indesign and restart, I've found it will generally resolve the problem.

                                   

                                  Good luck - hopefully you don't send a file out to be printed without noticing the ligatures have turned on.

                                  • 14. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                    RickGroff Level 1

                                    Thanks for the update, Adam! Nice to know I'm not just going crazy. Here's hoping there's a fix soon. I got an update for CC2014 this morning but it didn't mention anything about ligatures and I haven't had the time to test and see if the ligature problem still exists.

                                    • 15. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                      Bo LeBeau Level 4

                                      Adam,

                                       

                                      When you stripped out 11 of the 12 pages did you just SAVE it or did you use SAVE AS?

                                      Just saving doesn't update the internal structure of the file and it still remembers all of your old stuff in the file.

                                       

                                      Using SAVE AS will delete the useless internal data and the file should be much smaller.

                                      It's always good to "Save As" every once in a while to streamline the file size (also less subceptible to file corruption).

                                       

                                      This has always been an important procedure dating back to the days of PageMaker.

                                      • 16. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                        adam_kelly_77 Level 1

                                        Rick,

                                         

                                        I'm in direct contact with Javed at Adobe and I haven't heard anything back from him – I'll post any outcomes as they come through.

                                         

                                        Pity I had to make a bit of a song and dance on Twitter for this issue to get looked at.

                                        • 17. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                          adam_kelly_77 Level 1

                                          From Adobe:

                                           

                                          I have worked on this bug but the nature is such that it isn’t still reproducible on my end.

                                          I have tried this with InDesign only and hadn’t put into the picture UTC.

                                           

                                          I am working on setting up UTC server and Client to have the same state as exists on your machine.

                                          Will let you know If I am able to reproduce this.

                                           

                                          Is anybody else experiencing this problem also using Universal Type Client (or Suitcase, other Extensis product)?

                                          • 18. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                            BriGuyAG Level 1

                                            Yes, I've been using Suitcase for years now. I just updated the other day to version 6 (from version 5). Seems we have one common denominator at the moment.

                                             

                                            Haven't noticed this issue lately, and I haven't checked my problematic file in a while (that job wrapped up shortly after my previous reply), so I can't say if this is still an issue for me at the moment. If I remember, I'll check that file again soon and see what happens if I turn ligatures back on.

                                            • 19. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                              BriGuyAG Level 1

                                              Quick update: I checked my old files now, while I was thinking about it (I'll forget, otherwise).

                                               

                                              I searched my machine for "Orioles" -- the phrase that was giving me problems before -- and opened some of the older files that were found, and they seem to be working now. I can't get it to do that weird replacement anymore. I turned on Ligatures and nothing -- everything looked OK. Turned on Contextual Ligatures, too, and everything still looked OK. Tried retyping the word, and it worked fine.

                                               

                                              Not sure, but I'm guessing one of the InDesign updates/upgrades fixed it for me (maybe the upgrade from CC 2014 to CC 2014.1?). I do notice that my previous file opens as "Converted."

                                              • 20. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                BriGuyAG Level 1

                                                ** Oops, typo -- I meant Discretionary (not Contextual) Ligatures **

                                                • 21. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                  pkrk Level 1

                                                  Any updates on this issue? Our company is experiencing the same issue and there is no consistency to the it, very intermittent. We have a theory that it has to do with text that at one point was pasted or imported from programs like Word. We have noticed that some of the text have the character styles named as such. Not all the problem files do have styles being implemented though and again, if we quit out of Indesign like some others do, the issue clears itself out. Then a hundred jobs later it shows up again. This has been very frustrating and has burned us for some substantial $$.

                                                   

                                                  Any help is appreciated. I probably can not/will not share the files because of clients privacy. If I ever get the issue on a newly created file I will post it.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks!

                                                   

                                                  OS X 10.9.2

                                                  InDesign CC 10.0.0.70

                                                  UTC 5.0

                                                  • 22. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                    pkrk Level 1

                                                    It almost seems like it doesn't unload a previous font substitution...

                                                    • 23. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                      pkrk Level 1

                                                      We're leaning towards this being an Indesign issue. Anyone have any other guesses?

                                                      • 24. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                        BriGuyAG Level 1

                                                        Not at the moment. I haven't been able to reproduce it lately.

                                                        • 25. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                          pkrk Level 1

                                                          Someone mentioned that one of the recent updates took care of it though it wasn't advertised s far as I can tell.

                                                          • 26. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                            BriGuyAG Level 1

                                                            Yeah, that was me, a couple weeks ago. I just meant that I hadn't noticed the problem since I applied the latest update. So I don't know if anything was *really* fixed in the update regarding the ligatures, but I haven't come across the issue since. (Not yet, anyway.)

                                                            • 27. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                              edwardp70705052 Level 1

                                                              Hi everybody. Are there any updates on this issue?

                                                               

                                                              I was informed by a client this week that a 224-page book which has now been printed is riddled with instances of 'hn' appearing as 'Ý'. This only happened with the 'final' PDF, which is why it wasn't picked up on by anybody. No sign of the weird switches in 3 earlier proof PDFs.

                                                               

                                                              My client isn't happy, as you can imagine, and I can offer no explanation as it's never happened before. I can't replicate the problem either, as all is now normal in both the InDesign file and PDFs generated from it.

                                                               

                                                              It's the apparent randomness of it that makes it so scary. Short of suggesting that 'final' files are fully proofread again – which just isn't done with books – I don't know how to reassure my client it won't happen again, and I'd understand if she decided not to risk using me in future. Obviously, I'm also worried that it will happen with other clients.

                                                               

                                                              I'm working in InDesign CS5.5 (and Suitcase Fusion 5) on Windows 8.1 and I apologise if I'm in the wrong forum, but I thought I'd post here to highlight that this problem isn't specific to CC, or Macs. I've also found posts highlighting the problem dating back to 2011 so it's not exactly a recent issue either!

                                                              • 28. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                skipg47563658 Level 1

                                                                Repeating the question. Any updates on this issue? Recently experienced the same issue a few times. Indesign CC 2015-Font Explorer Pro.

                                                                 

                                                                  System Version: OS X 10.10.3 (14D136)

                                                                  Kernel Version: Darwin 14.3.0

                                                                 

                                                                  Model Name: iMac

                                                                  Model Identifier: iMac12,2

                                                                  Processor Name: Intel Core i5

                                                                  Processor Speed: 2.7 GHz

                                                                  Number of Processors: 1

                                                                  Total Number of Cores: 4

                                                                  L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB

                                                                  L3 Cache: 6 MB

                                                                  Memory: 8 GB

                                                                  Boot ROM Version: IM121.0047.B1E

                                                                  SMC Version (system): 1.72f2

                                                                • 29. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                  chrisuren Level 1

                                                                  thanks--I was only having this problem with Minion Pro, and the OpenType submenu was the problem--I unchecked "discretionary ligatures," and they went away. (I wonder whose discretion they were at; they were weird ones that most people would never have chosen.)

                                                                  • 30. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                    frenchfold Level 1

                                                                    Hello! This has just happened today to us. We're running CS6 at work (being a non-profit publication we're still having difficulty getting management to agree to pay for CC), and the fonts in question are none of the ones listed above. This leads me to suspect that this is an InDesign issue, and not a font one.

                                                                     

                                                                    Restarting the program seems to help, but it's pretty shocking it happened at all. Another, earlier thread, tried to run this problem down on CS5.5: Weird ligature issues They were pretty thorough, but didn't get to a solution, which also seems to be the case here.

                                                                     

                                                                    We're running:

                                                                    CS6 v8.0

                                                                    OSX 10.6.8

                                                                    Fonts are just put into the library folder.


                                                                    Any updates?

                                                                    • 31. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                      31stFloorPublications Level 1

                                                                      This problem has popped up for us today. Restarting worked, however, had we not written a file to PDF, it would have never shown up as a mistake. We have very text-heavy documents and dynamic spelling DID NOT catch the word "effective" as misspelled when it showed up as "eective" in the text in InDesign. So visually, it doesn't show up as a problem, only when exported to PDF and the word becomes completely jumbled with letters does the eye catch the anomaly.

                                                                       

                                                                      We're running:

                                                                      OSX 10.11.2

                                                                      CC 2015.2

                                                                       

                                                                      Any help on this matter would be appreciated.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                        sharpart Level 1

                                                                        Yes, this is happening to me, too, on a seemingly random basis. I see this in InDesign CC (and, of course, in any PDF I create, as well).

                                                                         

                                                                        I've found that if you trash the caches (no need to trash the preferences, which is a royal pain), it corrects the problem for a while -- but the caches frequently get corrupted again and the problem re-appears.  :-(

                                                                         

                                                                        I also experience the problem that the palettes on the right-hand side of the screen will occasionally refuse to open when I click on them. That's another problem that is temporarily solved by trashing the ID caches.

                                                                         

                                                                        I see lots of people are having the weird ligature issue -- anyone else having the issue with the palettes, too?

                                                                        • 33. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                          zetspiegel@Best Level 1

                                                                          We encounter the same problem many times since we have CC and new iMacs.

                                                                          Before we used old iMacs-OSX10.5.9-Indesign5/5.5/6 and never had this issue.

                                                                          In the forum I noticed some posts with the same issue on older Indesign.

                                                                           

                                                                          OSX 10.10.5

                                                                          Indesign CC 2015

                                                                          Dutch language

                                                                           

                                                                          My latest issue was:

                                                                          schnitzel was ligatured to scŸitzel

                                                                           

                                                                          Not good for our customer-relationship.

                                                                           

                                                                          In a chat with Adobe they advised me to check/validate our fonts in the OSX fonts library. I did found errors in some our fonts.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                            sharpart Level 1

                                                                            Yes, that’s my situation, too: never had the problem before, but now with a new iMac and CC 2015, I get these odd ligatures.

                                                                             

                                                                            Your reply noted that “schnitzel” converted to “scŸitzel” — and I’m get that same “hn”-to-“Ÿ” ligature frequently, as well.

                                                                             

                                                                            One question: how exactly did you check/validate your fonts? What program did you use to do that?

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks for your feedback

                                                                             

                                                                            Charlie Sharp

                                                                            • 35. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                              zetspiegel@Best Level 1

                                                                              It can be found here: Mac Basics: Font Book - Apple Support

                                                                              My font errors turned out to be warnings about duplicated fonts. After deactivating my fonts in Font Explorer they where gone.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                                sharpart Level 1

                                                                                The problem is that Adobe Garamond Premier Pro validates just fine in FontBook — but it’s the font with the odd ligatures.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Not sure where to go from here . . .

                                                                                 

                                                                                Charlie Sharp

                                                                                • 37. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                                  BriGuyAG Level 1

                                                                                  I would check where your version of Adobe Garamond Premier Pro came from.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Display font only (which may be why you're having some problems, as this version maybe just doesn't work correctly for desktop use???):

                                                                                  Garamond Premier Pro Display | Typekit

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Desktop use -- not called Premier Pro, but rather just Premier (with various styles, i.e. Premier Medium, Premier Caption, etc.):

                                                                                  Garamond Premier Font Family - Fonts.com

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Also, just found now on MyFonts:

                                                                                  Garamond Premier Pro - Desktop font « MyFonts

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Other downloadable versions with "Premier Pro" at the end of the name (found via Google search) seem to be free downloads from other sites... so they could be poorly coded/not reputable.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I'd double-check where you got yours and see what type of font it is (PostScript vs. OpenType vs. TrueType vs. ... something else???) and what usage it supports (Desktop vs. Web).

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                                    sharpart Level 1

                                                                                    My Adobe Garamond Premier Pro came directly from Adobe.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Also, FYI, the “display” font is just a variation that is used for display type (i.e., titles, headers, etc.) where the font will be used large and you don’t want it to appear “horsey” or too bold.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Charlie Sharp

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Indesign CC ligatures turning on randomly
                                                                                      BriGuyAG Level 1

                                                                                      OK. Wasn't 100% sure on that Display font, as most of them are listed for "Web" (not "Desktop") when you visit that first link.

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