24 Replies Latest reply on Oct 22, 2014 7:34 AM by Danny Whitehead.

    Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match

    Flossyr4ptor Level 1

      Hi

       

      I have used a Pantone Plus Color Bridge swatch (specifically Pantone 115 CP - yellow) in my inDesign CC 2014 project.

       

      I have an illustrator .eps file, created in Adobe Illustrator CC 2014 placed in the document. I have used the same Pantone Plus Color Bridge swatch in the .eps file.

       

      When printed there is a VERY noticeable difference between the yellow swatch in the inDesign document and the Illustrator placed graphic.

       

      It looks "correct" in the Illustrator placed graphic, i.e. it matches the swatch book but where the swatch has been used in inDesign, it seems to have shifted to an almost green hue.

       

      Could anyone explain why this might have happened?

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          Why EPS? Use AI and see if that makes a difference.

          • 2. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
            Flossyr4ptor Level 1

            Hi Bob

             

            .eps just because I worked over an existing .eps file and re-saved in AI CC 2014. Have tried using .ai but it made no difference. The color in the .eps file is "correct" though, it's the color when used in inDesign that appears "wrong" or "altered".

             

            Weirdly when I check "Overprint Preview" and zoom right in, where the two swatches meet they are indistinguishable, it's only when printed that the discrepancy appears.

            • 3. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Is there any transparency in either the AI file or on the ID page?

              • 4. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                gert verrept Level 2

                When you export it to a pdf, are the differences still visible?

                • 5. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                  gert verrept Level 2

                  Strange, I just gave it a try and in ID I don't have any difference between a rectangle filled with 115 CP from ID, a copied rectangle from AI, a placed .EPS from Illus or a placed .AI. When printed on our proofer (epson 7890), no difference between the rectangles.

                  • 6. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                    Flossyr4ptor Level 1

                    I've been playing around with the swatches and noticed that when I double click Pantone 115 CP in the swatches pane to get the swatch options panel and convert the swatch to CMYK I get a weird breakdown of C 2.8%,  M 4.56%, Y 87.85%, K 0%. In the book the value should be C 0%, M6%, Y87%, K0%. All other instances of the swatch that I've created break down to the correct value of 0 6 87 0 apart from the one instance that was causing the problem. I can't understand how this could happen. I certainly haven't inputted those percentages manually or used a picker to create the swatch. I have used the same color on several other documents and files without any problems. The only thing I can think of is that I upgraded from CC to CC 2014 recently, although, like I said this has not affected any other documents where this swatch has been used.

                     

                    Mystery.

                    • 7. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      when I double click Pantone 115 CP in the swatches pane to get the swatch options panel and convert the swatch to CMYK I get a weird breakdown of C 2.8%,  M 4.56%, Y 87.85%, K 0%.

                       

                      Are you sure your swatch is from the PANTONE + Color Bridge Coated library and not the PANTONE + Solid Coated library?

                       

                      The two libraries have different purposes. Color Bridge colors are already CMYK and are process not spot colors. Solid Coated colors are Lab spot colors and if you convert them to CMYK the conversion numbers would depend on your document's CMYK color profile.

                       

                      You can see in the Swatches panel the Color Mode and Color Type icons for the 2 colors are different

                      Screen Shot 2014-09-16 at 8.07.14 AM.png

                       

                      Screen Shot 2014-09-16 at 8.07.26 AM.png

                      • 8. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                        Flossyr4ptor Level 1

                        Yeah 100% sure. That's why I used a Color Bridge swatch as the finished doc is to be printed CMYK, no spots. The Swatch is named Pantone 115 CP so it's definitely from the Bridge library and not the Solid library.

                        • 9. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          The Swatch is named Pantone 115 CP so it's definitely from the Bridge library and not the Solid library.

                           

                          If you make a new document and a new PANTONE 115 CP swatch, what CMYK values show under the color name in your Colors panel—don't double-click the swatch, just check the values in the Color panel?

                           

                          You're seeing something different than this?:

                           

                          Screen Shot 2014-09-16 at 8.07.14 AM.png

                          • 10. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                            SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            I have to ask -- if you are not trying to match or coordinate with solid colors, why are you using Color Bridge, instead of the CMYK guide?

                             

                            from Pantone's website:

                             

                            Process, also known as 4-color process, or CMYK (cyan, magenta, yellow, black).

                            The Process palette is offered in a fan guide format (coated and uncoated) or in a ring binder format (coated only) with six tear out chips per color.


                            There is a Color Bridge conversion guide. The Solid colors are listed down the left side of the page with their corresponding

                            4-color Process formulas down the right side of the page. This way, if you are specifying a Solid color but the print job will be ran in 4-color process, you can see what the end result will be. Some Solid colors translate well into 4-color process and some do not. This guide allows you the option of choosing a different color if you are not going to like the end result.

                            • 11. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                              Flossyr4ptor Level 1

                              The breakdown shows as 3,5,88,0 (rounded up versions of the decimal %s I said before).

                               

                              I'm using Color Bridge from habit from when I am trying to match solids I guess. That's not the point though, the Bridge Colors are still only CMYK swatches essentially so it shouldn't make any difference.

                               

                              I have recreated the document now and removed the rogue instance of Pantone 115 CP and it seems to be working fine now.

                              • 12. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                why are you using Color Bridge, instead of the CMYK guide?

                                 

                                 

                                That's what the Color Bridge library if for. The swatches are defined as CMYK process colors and not Lab spots. In CS6 or later you have the option to make a color managed conversion of a solid color to process via PANTONE + Solid or you can get Pantone's single CMYK build via PANTONE + Color Bridge.

                                 

                                So for PANTONE 115 CP, if the definition is something other than process CMYK 0|6|87|0 something's wrong with the Color Bridge library.

                                • 13. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  the rogue instance of Pantone 115 CP and it seems to be working fine now.

                                   

                                  It would be possible to rename PANTONE 115 C to PANTONE 115 CP:

                                   

                                  Screen Shot 2014-09-16 at 11.22.47 AM.png

                                  • 14. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                    MarkG_MMR Level 1

                                    Having the same issue here. I've tried inserting EPS, PDF and Ai versions of my logo. It's very noticeable in my print ad as the logo sits on a purple rectangle (below).

                                    Pantone Issue.PNG

                                     

                                    The purple in the Ai file and the rectangle in InDesign are both Pantone 2627c.

                                     

                                    Any help appreciated.

                                     

                                    Mark.

                                    • 15. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                      gert verrept Level 2

                                      Strange? I just created an ID file, in which I placed an EPS, AI and PDF of the same logo on top of a rectangle. All in CC2014, with color settings=europe general purpose 3. No difference in the exported pdf, nor in the screenshot. I even proofed it on a epson 7890 (gmg proofing software), still not possible to reproduce the error. Are your color settings synced. Do you use the same color lib (pantone + color bridge coated for me). I post the screenshot. In this order: eps, AI, below ID rectangle, then pdf.ScreenShot2.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                        MarkG_MMR Level 1

                                        Thanks for the reply. I'll admit "Color Bridge" is a new term for me. I assumed that just using the same pantone code, they would be the same? Looks like I need to do some reading before continuing.

                                        • 17. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          The Pantone + Color Bridge library swatches are CMYK simulations of the Pantone solid ink colors. Their definitinons are process not spot, and CMYK not Lab. Their suffix is CP not C. The Color Bridge library makes a clearer distinction between a process simulation of a spot color and an actual spot color--a color that prints as and extra ink.

                                          • 18. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                            MarkG_MMR Level 1

                                            Ok, so I've got all programs set to Europe general purpose 3.

                                             

                                            I've just tried creating a block colour in a different Ai file and copied it to the logo EPS. I receive the following error.

                                            Swatch Error.PNG

                                            If I select merge, the 2627c block seems to match the colour. If I "Add swatches" it creates arrives as a darker purple. I feel like I'm getting somewhere.

                                            • 19. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              In CS6 and later the Pantone+ Coated library ( the C suffix) use Lab color definitions. Your eps probably uses a legacy definition. Keep in mind that the C colors are spots and if your job is always process CMYK the spots will have to be converted.

                                              • 20. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                                MarkG_MMR Level 1

                                                Ok guys, thanks for your help. You have definitely cleared a few things up for me. I've been chatting to the agency who sent the eps logo over and they admitted to not following the same colour process throughout there files.

                                                 

                                                Still not really sure what the problem was, they told me the process colour in the end.

                                                 

                                                CP - Colour bridge. A Pantone colour produced from CMYK colour. How long has Colour Bridge been around?

                                                • 21. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  Prior to CS6 it was called Pantone Solid to Process. In CS6 and later the Pantone + Solid libraries (C) have a single Lab definition rather than an ambiguous CMYK definition. It clarifies that the Solid Ink swatches are for spot color and not process output.

                                                   

                                                  If you are using the solid ink swatches to pick color for a process job you can use a predefined CMYK build via Color Bridge (CP) or make a color managed conversion via a solid ink color (C). Both strategies have their problems, but if the output is to generic coated offset printing, Color Bridge is probably better. If the job is going to multiple destinations where the printing conditions are quite different than a color managed conversion would be better.

                                                  • 22. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                                    TomasHartl Level 1

                                                    The difference in the new (CC2014) and the old document (CC):

                                                    InD_new_vs_old.jpg

                                                    According to me, it's a bug. InD separetes P. 187C to CMYK 22-100-78-16, but Pantone Guide show 0-91-72-23,5

                                                    • 23. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      In your bottom capture the 187 swatch is from the the legacy Pantone library where solid color swatches were defined as CMYK. Here I'ved saved the old pre CS6 coated library and 187 is defined as a spot color but with CMYK values:

                                                       

                                                      Screen Shot 2014-10-22 at 8.08.28 AM.png

                                                       

                                                      Starting with CS6 the solid swatches are Lab definitions and if you chose to convert them to process CMYK, the conversion is color managed Lab to CMYK and the results will depend on your document's CMYK profile and not a Pantone set value. If you select the swatch and look at the Color panel you can see the definition is Lab and the type is Spot:

                                                       

                                                      Screen Shot 2014-10-22 at 7.56.47 AM.png

                                                       

                                                      If you don't want a color managed conversion for CMYK simulations use Pantone + Color Bridge, those swatches are defined as CMYK and the Type is Process

                                                      Screen Shot 2014-10-22 at 7.56.55 AM.png

                                                      • 24. Re: Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match
                                                        Danny Whitehead. Level 4

                                                        You say print ad. So, is the publication going to run a spot colour on the press for you? No? Well don't use spot colour swatches.

                                                         

                                                        I was rather happy when Pantone switched to lab definitions, because it gave more accurate previews. At the time I never considered the added bonus of a bite on the *** for those who have misused spot swatches for decades.