11 Replies Latest reply on Sep 20, 2014 10:02 PM by Silkrooster

    3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused

    Shingara Level 1

      Hello all, im just starting out with creating clothes etc for sims 4 and im wondering just what is possible within PS cc. I am able to change textures, layers channels etc of the .dds files but as it stands they are done on a flat surface, my friend has informed me of the amazing possibilities of ps when it comes to 3d modelling. Now what im wondering is can i use the skin mesh that i have managed to get hold of for sims 4 within photo shop as what can best be described as a tailors dummy to place the clothes upon within PS. If it is where do i place the mesh files within the ps folders and how do i get ps to see that the .dds file is tobe placed upon the dummy.

       

      Now if considering the above is doable am i then able to alter the mesh of the clothes items but not effect the dummy as i want the dummy tobe none intractable and unchangeable and only the .dds file i am working on tobe altered. Im also wondering if this is infact possible if it is possible to create items from scratch also from within ps using the technique.

       

        Thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
          Brett N Adobe Employee

          The biggest problem you are going to run into here is animation. Photoshop doesn't have the 3D controls to animate your clothing, there will be no way to bind the mesh to the skeleton that animates the model. Any sort of 3D modeling you may accomplish in Photoshop will never bind to your imported characters. It would, at best, just float around your character, sleeves wouldn't move with arms, wouldn't bend with torsos, etc.

           

          The 3D capabilities of Photoshop will not replace a proper 3D animation application. With Photoshop you can composite 3D models into a 2D image, edit the texture maps of a 3D model, or send 3D information to a 3D printer. Photoshop is not able to rig or skin models for animation.

          • 2. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
            Shingara Level 1

            Could you give some suggestion of what i use alongside photoshop then please, Im asuming im going to have to use another program to change the mesh for the clothes as at the moment my problem is i can alter clothes but what im left with is a transparent area that has the remaining edge left on it from the area of the clothes i have basically made invisible. And im really assuming here as im no where near a pro and have only been doing it for a few days that the mesh itself will act and react to the chars mesh as in it sits ontop of it and the mesh once altered flexes over the main mesh.

            • 3. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
              Brett N Adobe Employee

              You'll want a dedicated 3D modeling application. There are many to choose from and will range in price, power, and learning curve. It's up to you to make that decision. Adobe doesn't make any such applications.

              • 4. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                Shingara Level 1

                What about the part for using a tailors dummy to use to paint/remove on clothing/body items as i can load the body mesh into PS as it is just an object but not sure how to make it static none changeable. As it stands the clothes even if done in 3d painting will still have the original mesh and will adhere to the mesh rules as it simply sits ontop of it so putting texture on hair, clothing and skins will only effect the parts painted or where the mask is modified. Is that a no no and can only be done on a flat surface aswell ?

                • 5. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                  Brett N Adobe Employee

                  Yes, you can paint textures onto models, but adding to the model won't really translate. 3D objects don't really understand proximity and contact. Just because you place some clothing next to a body doesn't mean when that body moves the clothing will. There is a lot of process that happens after a 3D object is created that allows for it to be controlled and animated. Photoshop doesn't do any of that. So you can create still objects pretty well in Photoshop, like decorations, but anything that is expected to move at any point, will likely not work if you modify or create the structure in Photoshop. This is not the application you want to be using for that type of work.

                  • 6. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                    Shingara Level 1

                    Ye i understand where your coming from, anything in photoshop as a 3d model doesnt relate to the mesh that is within python. just trying to think of a way now to make it easier to understand what parts in the picture connect to other parts in the picture which was the main reason i was wondering if the mesh from the game could be transplanted into photoshop as a dummy, as then it would join the parts together. I think ill try to find a plug in that works under cas rules as i have found a program that can model so it makes me think the add on may exist as a preview system if nothing else so you can relate what your doing within PS to how it will actually look.

                    • 7. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                      Silkrooster Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      There are two ways to create clothing one is to create a mesh and animate it like Brett mentioned, the other is to use the same mesh and apply a UV Mapped texture to that mesh like poser allows. The difference is one requires a body that has no protruding parts (I'll leave it like that) as they would show through, the other can have a mesh that is away from the body and have thickness to it which can handle protruding parts.

                      That said creating UV mapped textures in photoshop is fairly strait forward. Where as meshes can be created in photoshop, but it is very rudimentary in how it creates the meshes. It lacks the fine details of point modeling which can help in pushing and pulling of the polygons to make sure it lays correctly. Photoshop as Brett mentioned lack the more advanced animation techniques needed to force the mesh to animate with the underlying mesh.

                       

                      What I recommend is that you look at the free app called blender you can find it through google. It can do what you need, even if it is a bit weird for a user interface. For paid programs, I recommend looking at poser (Daz has a free version {called Daz studio} that is similar to poser but lacks a few features) Poser can animate a mesh give it bones, etc. But lack modeling features that are required that blender can handle.

                      Newtek's Lightwave or Luxology (now called the foundry I guess) has modo which is very similar to lightwave but is more modeling heavy than animation heavy, whereas lightwave is the opposite. Both companies were one at one time, I don't know about the split, but that's how modo came to be. Either of these two companies can and will exceed anything you need. Both are extremely fast compared to blender, poser, daz studio or photohshop when it comes to modeling, animating, rendering and some texturing. The textures in these apps have two flavors procedural (math based) and image based. Kind of like comparing photoshop to illustrator, that can do similar things, but each has their strengths and weaknesses.

                       

                      Something else to look at is UV mapper. It now costs it use to be free years ago. it will take a UV map and help arrange the map so that it is easier to create a uv texture in an image editor like photoshop.

                       

                      I decided to add a few links. Hope this helps a bit.

                       

                      The Foundry Community :: About The Foundry

                      LightWave - Production Proven

                      DAZ 3D | Free 3D software and content

                      blender.org - Home of the Blender project - Free and Open 3D Creation Software

                      UVMapper - UV Mapping Software

                      • 8. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                        Shingara Level 1

                        Well like i say, im not specifically trying to make a mesh, the items im doing already have a mesh and i have a friend who messes with meshes for me on milkshake as i cannot be bothered with all that fiddle (used to work in cadcam). I think something has been crossed on what im trying to explain. I have a body mesh extracted from the sims 4 and can load it within photoshop and part of my question was could i use the mesh as a dummy to simply have the pattern from the .dds file to sit upon so i could adjust and recolour them and be able to see in real time how what i was doing looked upon the model as it would ingame.

                         

                        This would allow for far better tattoo's, clothes and accessory's tobe created at a much lower skill level, so if figured out i was going to pass that knowledge along to others. So whilst i thank people for the info in consideration to mesh work, i was never really intending to alter meshes within photoshop but to use a mesh as a platform to better do what we currently do within a 2d situation of parts on a screen that show no correlation to how they connect to each other, stack, fold and interact. So the body mesh would do nothing bar this job http://www.theshopfittingshop.co.uk/ekmps/shops/simonclifford/images/size-10-12-female-dre ssmakers-dummy-tailors-bust-ma…

                         

                        And if its not possible at all now, i think adobe are missing a trick as its not just within a games environment this could be used for and should jump on this and make it possible.

                        • 9. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                          Silkrooster Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          You only read 1/2 of my post. I also mentioned, that you can take the underlying mesh, apply a UV map to it, then create a UV texture in photoshop. But, you have to create that UV map first, as that is what tells your renderer to apply the texture to the underlying mesh correctly. (Underlying mesh means the body of the character)

                          All that said, you better verify what you can do legally before using that mesh for a commercial project.

                          • 10. Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                            Shingara Level 1

                            Well what i have managed todo so far is to use the object file for the mesh eg skin and have that within photoshop, and as it stands it is a full 3d object. the step that is missing is being able to set that 3d object as a static, none interact-able object which i can then store as a system for the .dds files which have there own mesh for stretch, movement etc to sit upon. And thats the bridge im looking for because as it stands the .dds files load in 2d in a basic tailors pattern with the obvious rgb layers and the alpha layer being the mask. But shading and adjusting the pattern is very hap hazard and mainly luck unless your a pro, and working out what part of the pattern joins what at which point is very fiddly.

                             

                            As it stands i make an adjustment, save convert to a package, test in a studio and then convert pack to a .dds to carry on. If photoshop had a system within it like a tailors dummy that you could input the mesh directly from the game in question be it dragon age, the sims, mass effect, skyrim etc etc would give photoshop much greater scope, remove the need for constant save and checks and a bigger market appeal.

                             

                            For commercial use, i have no intention of making money from it and everything i do i give away as custom content but with that said the commercial possibilitys for something like this are vast from game environments all the way to actual home based and company based tailors. Adobe have some very smart people working for them and i dont think it would be a great leap to go from what we have now within photoshop to enrich the 3d portion of photoshop to allow this via a plug in or naturally through CC.

                            • 11. Re: Re: 3d model for .dds files from sims 4 help/ponder/confused
                              Silkrooster Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Well what i have managed todo so far is to use the object file for the mesh eg skin and have that within photoshop, and as it stands it is a full 3d object. the step that is missing is being able to set that 3d object as a static, none interact-able object which i can then store as a system for the .dds files which have there own mesh for stretch, movement etc to sit upon. And thats the bridge im looking for because as it stands the .dds files load in 2d in a basic tailors pattern with the obvious rgb layers and the alpha layer being the mask. But shading and adjusting the pattern is very hap hazard and mainly luck unless your a pro, and working out what part of the pattern joins what at which point is very fiddly.

                               

                              That bridge is the UV Map. Some meshes already have it, others need to be created. It is not always an easy process. A UV Map take a 3d mesh and lays it out in a 2d shape with the coordinates of U and V where a mesh has three coordinates X, Y and Z.

                              Once that UV map is created, then you can import the entire 3d mesh into photoshop, where it will see that UV map and allow you to create a texture for it.

                              If you do not create a UV map or none was already included, then the texture can be applied to the mesh, but will resort to a standard wrap (sorry I don't recall the name of this method at the moment) This wrap can be spherical, cylindrical, a plane or a box. These do not always produce the desired results, but for basic shapes, they work just fine. The UV map on the other hand will force a point in the map to coincide with the a point on the mesh, forcing a tattoo or eye color to stay put and not move (unless the UV map is animatable, which is beyond photoshops capability).

                              This UV map can be created in Blender, Lightwave, modo, but not photoshop.

                               

                              As for 3d formats, I highly doubt that photoshop will support majority of the 3d formats on the market any time soon. Simply because it lack majority of the features the rest of the market already has. Maybe one day, but not soon.

                              Bryce from Daz3d.com can import/export a wide variety of 3d formats as well as blender. Both of which are free. But generally these formats are modeling/animation formats, not game formats. Most of the game formats are proprietary (owned by the creator of the game) Which makes it very hard to reproduce, both physically and legally.

                              As you have mentioned milkshake, I believe that supports a wide variety of game formats. I never tried it, so it is out of my league. Since games are their business, odds are greater they would have a wide variety of game formats (that's my conclusion anyways)