15 Replies Latest reply on Sep 27, 2014 2:11 PM by Jao vdL

    Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail

    Sara Jphoto

      I shoot with a canon mark3 in srgb, I edit in lightroom in srgb and I export in srgb. Every single time I export a raw file from lightroom the thumbnail is clearly red and over processed looking. If I open the file it's fine. What is causing the red thumbnail and how do I fix it?

       

       

      *side note the adobe technical support system make me want to rip my hair and out and throw things. This has been by far the worst experience trying to get technical support that I have ever encountered in my entire life.

        • 1. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Can we see what “red” means, maybe a screenshot of LR and whatever you’re using to look at the exported files?

          • 2. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
            Sara Jphoto Level 1

            Screen Shot 2014-09-26 at 8.17.04 AM.pngthis us the normal color corrected file.

            Screen Shot 2014-09-26 at 8.15.53 AM.pngthis is the thumb nail.

            • 3. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
              Sara Jphoto Level 1

              Sorry the screen shot didn't render the correct coloring either.

               

              140505-140505-0099.jpg

              • 4. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                Sara Jphoto Level 1

                SO the above photo is what the photo looks like in lightroom the smaller image above that is screenshot of what the thumbnail looks like for this image and every other image of mine. I guess you could use the two screen shots to compare the vast difference in color between the thumbnail and image.

                • 5. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Can we see screenshots with the viewer you're looking at obviously part of the image?  From the crops above, I cannot tell what applciations I'm seeing things viewed in.

                   

                  An issue like this is usually due to a mismatched color profile or lack of color-management in the viewer application.

                   

                  Like I said can we see a screenshot that includes both the Bridge view and the whatever-other-viewer view side-by-side in the same screenshot with it obvious what version is in what application?

                  • 6. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                    Sara Jphoto Level 1

                    Screen Shot 2014-09-26 at 10.58.36 AM.png

                     

                    I think this is what you're looking for... I'm not sure what you mean by mismatched color profile or lack of color-management in the viewer application.

                     

                    I use two ned monitors and calibrate them using their software and a device.

                    • 7. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I want the ok-looking image(s) and the too-red image in the same screenshot.  I only see Lightroom in your recent screenshot and everything looks ok, the thumbnail, the Navigator preview and the main Loupe view.

                       

                      In your first reply to me you show a thumbnail that is redder than the more recent screenshot.   What application or program did that thumbnail come from?  Can we see a screenshot with that thumbnail and the LR view at the same time, with Window title bars so it's obvious what window is showing the ok-looking images and what window is showing the too-red image?

                      • 8. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                        Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        My guess is that the file thumbnails are simply not color managed in the file browser (finder or explorer) and that this is viewed on a wide gamut monitor. That typically causes the reds to be over saturated. Nothing you can do about that.

                        • 9. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                          Sara Jphoto Level 1

                          I'm not sure if you are understanding what the problem is. The raw file is exported out of lightroom as a jpeg and the result is the red jpeg thumbnail which I've already sent screen shots of I've also sent the screenshot in lightroom, and uploaded the image so you could see what it should look like. should look I'm not sure why you would want another screen shot of the exact same thing I've already shown you. As far as my nec screens the jpegs are showing up red on all 3 of laptops as well. I could see it possibly being something to do with the screens if it was slightly off but its way off. Additionally I don't have these problems with other software programs. I'm sure there is a problem and it's either with the lightroom software it's self and that it's not rendering the thumbnail correctly or that I've got some goofy setting.  I've also gone through the trouble of uninstalling and reinstalling lightroom, no change. I could honestly live wight he problem except my clients who don't have all the software will sort the jpegs using the thumbnails and have complained to me about the color. I then to have to explain to them that it is just the thumbnails. Which I really shouldn't have to.

                           

                          I was talking to a friend of mine that is also a photographer, who handles customer service and told her about the way adobe has their customer service set up and she laughed. She absolutely couldn't believe I had to post stuff to a forum and wait for replies. I bought adobe stock when the new software can out and I'm honestly thinking of selling. While adobe is the only real player in this space the customer service forum is a disaster for people seeking help. Additionally I've tried to figure out how to pay to get someone on the phone and it's possibly impossible to figure out.

                          • 10. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                            Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Sara, read my post above. Your NEC displays are probably wide gamut displays. This means that anything that is not color managed will show up too saturated because the native gamut of the display is bigger than sRGB and closer to adobeRGB. The previews on jpeg files (which are NOT generated by Lightroom but by your operating system!) are generally not color managed, which means that on a wide gamut display they will appear too saturated. There is nothing you can do about that but petition Apple to color manage file preview icons. Also note that on other displays, which generally have a gamut closer to sRGB, the images will appear normal. Your clients will see something close to what you see in Lightroom.

                            • 11. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                              Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              >Additionally I've tried to figure out how to pay to get someone on the phone and it's possibly impossible to figure out.

                              Google "Adobe support phone number" or go to Contact Customer Care

                              • 12. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                                Sara Jphoto Level 1

                                Thank you for your response that makes more sense. The customer service page sent me in circles. I found two pages which mentioned getting someone on the phone... one was helping to buy a product, the second was a page explaining that you could get premium services but didn't tell you where to go to sign up. Having to go to forum and spend days to find out answers is problematic. At one point I thought I'd pay $500 to simple get on the phone if I could simply figure out what number to call. You have to understand this isn't my first time trying to figure out why this is happening. I've been periodically searching your forum and the internet for about a year. It would seem if I'm having this problem others are as well and it wouldn't have to be me asking apple to make a changes. I would think adobe and apple would be better suited to hash thing out to better serve their customers, besides you all clearly know more about your programs and software then I do.

                                • 13. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                                  Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Sara,

                                   

                                  this is a user to user help forum, not a customer support forum. None of us (with a few exceptions) have any affiliation with Adobe. There are a few Adobe folks that wander in here and they are identified with an Adobe logo next to their posts but that is rare. Most of us here just like to help folks out. I doubt that anybody from Adobe phone support would be able to help you with this as this is an extremely uncommon issue as very few people have wide gamut displays and the issue has nothing to do with their software. This is just a consequence of color management which bites lots of people with unexpected color shifts if they are on wide gamut displays and if you throw non-color managed apps in the mix or use websites that strip color profiles from your images irrespective of what software you used to generate the image files! The web is full with write-ups on the pitfalls of color management. It is essential that you use it but you need to understand what is happening. An excellent write-up is here: Jeffrey Friedl's Blog » Digital-Image Color Spaces, Page 1: Introduction

                                   

                                  The asking Apple to color manage file icons remark was slightly facetious. I highly doubt Apple would ever do that as they are unlikely to throw in a step that slows down displaying of icons and that only benefits a tiny subset of people.

                                  • 14. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                                    Sara Jphoto Level 1

                                    I see. Well in that case you are simply a sweetheart and thank you for your help. I thought this was a customer support forum. Which actually makes adobe look really bad. Next time I'm at a photo expo I'm going to have to stop by their booth and confront them about their lack of customer support and that they really should find a fix for these type of problems. It seems to me that it might be the only way to talk to anyone. I think most photographers struggle with color correction. I do. I battle with the environment I shoot in, my cameras, my computers, even my own eyes. I really want my end product to look right for my clients. When I spend hours color correcting only to export files that look awful to deliver them to client hoping that they don't see the thumbnails in the way I do.. it just seems unprofessional . Adobe Lightroom from my prospective is a professional tool to adjust color and other aspect of your photos. The thing that bothers me is that its only after the files are run through their software that the thumbnails look really awful going in they honestly look better before all the corrections. It looks like it's taking the corrections I do and applying them to the thumbnails and almost over stating the corrections. So the fact that your saying the thumbnails aren't color managed makes sense. It seems like there should be away to not apply the corrections in the thumbnails files. Adobe really should have some solution. It seems a little half done.

                                    • 15. Re: Red SRGB jpeg thumbnail
                                      Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Sara, I understand your frustration but you are railing against the wrong windmill. Whatever you do, you cannot guarantee that your clients get to see the right color. Nothing that Adobe or Apple can do will help in that regard. The reason for this is that it is extremely unlikely that your client will have calibrated their screen. Even print places, magazine writers and such are often not calibrated very well. The best thing you can do (which is what you are doing actually) is to calibrate your own screen using a hardware calibration device, to use color managed apps throughout on your own computer and to only export to sRGB. This will make it so that you are most likely to get the correct color on your client's display as most consumer screens natively are somewhere in the neighborhood of sRGB. With the current generation of iPads and such this situation is slightly better as most have displays that are surprisingly good and close to sRGB. Your file will display just fine on those. Sometimes a little warmer than you see and sometimes (more often) a little cooler. Nothing you can do about that but realizing that on average it will work.

                                      Regarding the thumbnail, realize that you are one of only very few people that will see the icon this way. Very few people have wide gamut displays. Also the preview of the files is built by the operating system that people are using, not by Lightroom. You really cannot control this process much except for trusting that when you export to sRGB it is most likely to look good. This is just a consequence of the present situation where computer screens are just not a very reproducible target. Most people will not be on a Mac (where the situation is generally quite good with fairly good displays out of the box) but will have the cheapest but biggest display they can get or a pretty bad laptop display. The color quality on an average display is quite horrendous. You can't really control this. You can only minimize the problem as described above.

                                       

                                      What model NEC display do you have? I generally advise people to not get wide gamut displays if they don't appreciate very well what consequences this will have for non-color managed apps as a lot of things (icons are typical as are websites) will look oversaturated (see WIDE GAMUT ADOBE RGB LCD Monitors Screens Troubleshooting Over Saturated sRGB Color Reviews on the Web Tutorial ). You generally do not need a wide-gamut display if you are not dealing with highly saturated colors that need to look the best they can in prints from your own large format multiple ink printer. You generally do not see this in people photography but you do run into such issues in landscape photography. If you need the absolute best color in prints it sometimes makes sense to use a wide gamut display.