16 Replies Latest reply on Apr 20, 2007 5:37 PM by Ann_Shelbourne

    Kuler to Pantone

    MadVespa
      Is there an easy way to convert my Kuler colour to the nearest Pantone reference?
        • 1. Re: Kuler to Pantone
          Sami@Adobe Adobe Employee
          Hi there, maybe another member has found a method and will post it.

          The easiest way I know--and this is not meant to be an upsell, just information-- uses Illustrator CS3 because of the new Live Color feature. After you bring a kuler theme into Illustrator via the kuler panel, you can convert themes to the equivalent Pantone colors. Using the Color Guide panel, you restrict the colors to a color library such as any of the Pantone color books, e.g., Pantone Solid Coated. This will provide the Pantone spot equivalents for each of the colors in the kuler theme.

          Just curious, what kind of design work are you using kuler for?

          Sami
          • 2. Re: Kuler to Pantone
            jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh
            this is a long way around, but you can key in the cmyk values in pshop, thne go to the color picker window, and click on "color libraries." pshop will pick the closest pms match.

            man, now i'm stuck w/ a crazy nickname.
            • 3. Re: Kuler to Pantone
              Sami@Adobe Adobe Employee
              Thanks for the response, Alphabet Soup! ;)
              Sami
              • 4. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh Level 1
                hmm, i was just checking to see if i still had the soupy nickname. i do.

                as i stated (not so clearly before), i tried all manner of nicknames, and found it hard to believe they were all taken: marc, marcc, marcc1411, marccardwell, marc.cardwell.

                i saw your p.m., is there anyway to re-set my nickname? is there a better place to ask? thanks!
                • 5. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                  Ann_Shelbourne
                  The only way that I know to do that is to start all over again (you may have to use a different e-mail address) to create a second account and then create a new screen name!

                  • 6. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                    jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh Level 1
                    oh well. thanks.
                    • 7. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                      lametastic
                      quote:

                      Originally posted by: jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh
                      this is a long way around, but you can key in the cmyk values in pshop, thne go to the color picker window, and click on "color libraries." pshop will pick the closest pms match.



                      Plus you could download pms color bridge libraries from
                      here, this will help you work without "analog "color references.
                      • 8. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                        jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh Level 1
                        cool, thanks. i'll have to sign up for a login. so these are pms libraries that work in bridge? i'm confused as to how these help you get from a cmyk to the closest pms match.
                        • 9. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                          Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
                          Pantone (PMS) colors are formulae to mix SPOT COLOR inks most of which are not reproducible using the standard 4C Process Color Inks.

                          (Which is why we sometimes specify extra plates and Pantone Inks in the first place.)

                          To get the closest CMYK mix to a specified Pantone ink, you need to use the "Solid to Process" Color Libraries.
                          • 10. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                            jksdjkadfjksdfhsdfjh Level 1
                            thanks ann. i was aware of the purpose of pms colors, what i do in pshop is click on the color picker, then click on "color libraries." the pallet that comes up is the last one used. in my case it's the solid coated library. i use the solid to process to go the other way.

                            i'm still curious as to how the method lametastic was describing works, and how bridge fits in. marc
                            • 11. Kuler to Pantone
                              Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
                              Marc:

                              I only mentioned the purpose of Pantone colors because there seems to be wide-spread misunderstanding throughout the industry concerning what they actually are (just recipes for mixing Spot Color printing Inks!) and how you are supposed to use the Pantone System.

                              You are doing it correctly when you click on the color picker, select "color libraries" and choose "Solid Coated";
                              and when you use "Solid to Process" to go the other way.

                              You already have all the software color conversion libraries that you need included in the CS2 and CS3 programs . You don't need Pantone's "Bridge" software (which has no connection with Adobe's CS2/CS3 "The Bridge").

                              On the other hand, if you need the printed Swatch Books and Ink Formula Guide, you can buy those from the Pantone site. (They cost about $125 per book and there are some bundled sets as well.)

                              • 12. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                                lametastic Level 1
                                To be honest, I'm using good old CS, so I had to download additional pms to process swatches and perhaps you already have all of them prefetched with the CS3 version of pshop.

                                As I said in me previous post - "plus", meaning, that after you choose yourself a pms color and you would like to do some further color conversions you could use mentioned "color bridge" - if you check the CMYK values of the pms color shown in the info window, they differ a lot from what you get using color books provided by Adobe (like solid to process coated), and these still differ slightly from swatches coming with Pantone "color bridge".
                                I don't know, if these were updated with CS3.

                                Hope I made myself clear this time.
                                • 13. Kuler to Pantone
                                  Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
                                  >if you check the CMYK values of the pms color shown in the info window, they differ a lot from what you get using color books provided by Adobe (like solid to process coated), and these still differ slightly from swatches coming with Pantone "color bridge". >

                                  They differ because the Photoshop ones are referred back (via L*ab) to the actual CMYK settings that you are using at any particular time.

                                  In other words the Conversion is being Color Managed to be appropriate to your targeted Press conditions via your chosen CMYK Profile.

                                  You might be printing on a heat-set web press or on a sheet-fed press; with inks manufactured in Europe, Japan, or the USA; and you could be generating Black from RGB in several different ways.

                                  All of those situations will require a different mix of C, M, Y and K inks to most closely approximate the contents of a can of Pantone-formulated PIGMENTED spot color ink.

                                  Photoshop, and the other Color Managed Adobe programs, take all these factors into consideration when converting colors between color spaces and I know that Adobe are working closely with Pantone inc. and using their most recent formulations. Because Pantone do change those from time to time, I am pretty certain that the Adobe conversion algorithms would have been updated for CS3 — which now contains Pantone's Color Bridge libraries too.

                                  Pantone's own conversion values are just generic and obviously cannot take individual CMYK Profiles into consideration. Pantone's own software is obviously useful for people who do not have access to the CS2 or CS3 programs and the Swatch books for giving you some idea of how a particular mix of pigments in a can bearing a Pantone number XXX actually printed on a particular stock, on a particular Press on that particular day.

                                  But it is absolutely no guarantee that "Pantone XXX" is going to print the SAME way on your paper, on a different Press —or even on the same Press on a different day!

                                  Even Pantone's own Swatch Books themselves differ from each other — depending on in which batch they were printed!

                                  • 14. Kuler to Pantone
                                    Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
                                    Thanks to lametastic's link to:
                                    http://www.pantone.com/pages/pantone/pantone.aspx?ca=1&pg=19422

                                    I found this PDF available for download :

                                    >Learning to Love Pantone's New COLOR BRIDGE Guide
                                    Seybold Report, Vol. 5, No. 3 • May 4, 2005>

                                    Well worth reading — but you do have to register with the website to get it.
                                    -------
                                    A quick Google shows that ou can also get it from:

                                    Here
                                    • 15. Re: Kuler to Pantone
                                      lametastic Level 1
                                      nice to see someone digs the theory :)

                                      quote:

                                      Originally posted by: Ann Shelbourne
                                      and you could be generating Black from RGB in several different ways.


                                      Add that most of them to a big surprise of many people won't be black though ;) That's why we should avoid "generating" blacks.

                                      quote:

                                      Originally posted by: Ann Shelbourne
                                      Pantone's own software is obviously useful for people who do not have access to the CS2 or CS3 programs and the Swatch books for giving you some idea of how a particular mix of pigments in a can bearing a Pantone number XXX actually printed on a particular stock, on a particular Press on that particular day.


                                      or for quick reference. And because of all the "particular" stuff we need color proofing.

                                      quote:

                                      Originally posted by: Ann Shelbourne
                                      But it is absolutely no guarantee that "Pantone XXX" is going to print the SAME way on your paper, on a different Press —or even on the same Press on a different day!



                                      I even saw guys unable to print red 0/100/100/0 correctly. Printshops, meh. Got to hate them ;)

                                      quote:

                                      Originally posted by: Ann Shelbourne
                                      Even Pantone's own Swatch Books themselves differ from each other — depending on in which batch they were printed!



                                      Still, they are the most accurate reference and that is why people use them. Not like you cannot pick better matching process and pms, but in most cases bridge is doing fine job.

                                      I wonder, do you work in some kind of printing company, Ann?

                                      • 16. Kuler to Pantone
                                        Ann_Shelbourne Level 1
                                        Not directly but I work VERY closely with various Print shops who print our work.

                                        Re: generating Black

                                        You actually do that automatically at the precise moment that you "Convert" an RGB file to CMYK.

                                        You have to, because RGB contains no "Black": 00 R; 00G; 00B just signifies the absence of ALL colored LIGHT.

                                        You need a Black plate for 4C Process printing and the RGB to CMYK Profile conversion creates that — resulting in a "Rich Black" (a four -color Black which does not exceed the Total Ink limit which the designated Press conditions can accept.

                                        If you need a pure 100%K (perhaps for Type) you MUST create that in a CMYK file.