Similarly, this spread with 2 full-page ads have no bleed on the inside margin for proofing purposes. If it were saddle stitched, I wouldn't give a second thought I'd just let the auto bleed pull image from the other ad. Who cares? They're going to be right next to each other anyway. But, since we're going the perfect-bound route, I need for each ad to have full bleed on all 4 sides.
Not in my opinion. Only need bleed on the top, bottom, and foredge. I say this having had 15 years experience in printing and producing burst bound, perfect bound, saddle stitched and section sewn books.
I don't know why you aren't just using the "facing pages" feature. Turning the facing pages feature off and manually cutting/pasting is full of danger and something I'd definitely not recommend.
The only time I'd recommend having bleed through the spine is if preparing wir-o or coil bound work, and then I would use the method I blogged about elsewhere: http://colecandoo.com/2011/06/03/why-o-wire-o-bleeds/
I note the example used with the picture that goes over the readers spread - to me, that would be an easier feat in a burst-bound book rather than a large saddle stitched book, mainly because the person printing the artwork has to compensate for creep (aka shinging, push-out or thrust, whatever term you like) and this is much harder to do when there are images that cross a reader's spread.
If your publication has facing pages you have to set up it as facing pages. There is no way around it. Not only the pages are right and left, but also many styles are toward or away from spine and will not work properly, also Paragraph Style's keep option will break.
When you decide to design spread wise, as you do, you have to insert only an odd number of pages and shuffle around whole sperads and not single pages.
If you want to apply a background via master, you must divide this background at the spine.
If you require adds with bleed and if you don't know, if the add comes on an even or odd page, your requirement has to include the bleed in both direction. And at the spine no one will bother about a bleed rest as it is invisible. Exceptions are with wire-O-bindings, but there are also correct ways in a facing layout to draw away pages from the same spread in correct single left and right pages as single spreads with inside bleed.
You should never change a facing layout to a non facing layout as you do now. It is a dangerous and wrong work step.
Yes! CDFlash. That was one of my concerns with the image that spans the spread is how to compensate for the creep. Is that something I need to do in my design? Or can I just save a PDF in single pages and have the printer adjust for it? I used to work at a print shop that did magazines and catalogs (I did gang runs and box lithos), but the guy in charge of doing the impositions for those just kinda touched on the subject with me when I expressed my curiosity. That was 10 years ago, already. I know his software calculated a lot of that. I don't know. I'm just very confused about this right now--I've never really had to do anything more than 12 pages. I set it up for saddle stitch because that's how it was going to print originally. Now they want to change it to perfect bound and do a second run. I usually just get in touch with the printer for the specs on how they want the files, but they're changing the printer as well and it will be done in China, so I think there will be a huge language barrier trying to ask the printer how to set it up.
So, as a basic, general rule of thumb, you think if I have my document set up with facing pages, and if we choose burst binding, that will help keep the background images continuous through all 48 pages? So I can just save the PDF in single pages as-is and let InDesign create bleed from the images on the opposite page for the "inside" bleed... or should I just leave the inside bleed off and only bleed top, bottom, and outer edge? How much bleed do you typically need for burst bound projects?
This is a highly graphic magazine. So none of the backgrounds are the same from spread to spread. Also, I'm the lucky gal (sarcasm) that gets to design this magazine every month. So I know exactly where all of the ads are going. And, yes, making it into single pages instead of facing pages is what I'm definitely trying to avoid for exactly that reason. I work at the 3rd largest label printer in the USA right now... I can't even tell you how many QC departments we have. So I can attest to the fact that one little wrong click of the mouse, and my 48-page magazine is garbage. I definitely don't want that! That's why I'm here You said "here are also correct ways in a facing layout to draw away pages from the same spread in correct single left and right pages as single spreads with inside bleed." What exactly do you mean by that?
Yes! CDFlash. That was one of my concerns with the image that spans the spread is how to compensate for the creep. Is that something I need to do in my design?
Compensating for creep is something the printer does with saddle stitched books either with the imposition software (if there are no images that will present issues in cross-overs in readers spreads) or with a combination of manipulating the native file AND the imposition software. It is something that I would not recommend a designer to do but leave it in the hands of the tradies at the printer.
The whole thing is being totally over-enginnered. Books read as facing pages, so no matter if the book is bound saddle stitch, burst bound, perfect bound, or section sewn, set the artwork as facing pages in indesign. The only time it might be an issue is as I mentioned in my previous post and that was a wiro/coil bound book, and again this is something the printer can manipulate if they have the artwork.
And as I said before, only worry about the top, bottom and foredge bleeds (not the spine). My work uses 3mm bleed minimum but I have worked at places that asked for 5mm bleed.
If you have facing pages, you have to set up the document with facing pages that is what is it for. If you have a spreadwide design as above, keep the spreads together. There is not even one reason not to do so.
Only for wire-O-bindings might a different workflow useful, but also with facing pages documents and only when the left page and the right page have not a spread wide design:
//// I did one mistake, I created a doument with a right binding, but it would work the same way with left binding.)
1. Create a document with Facing Pages.
2. Select the Spread in the Page Panel (Window > Page Panel) and in the panel’s flyout menu deselect "Allow Selected Spread to Shuffle". The spread’s page number will appear in brackets.
3. Select a single page of the spread and drag it to the side until a vertical bar appears.
4. Now you have the result.
Left and right pages have their own spread and will have a bleed around each page without taking information from the other page.
That was one of my concerns with the image that spans the spread is how to compensate for the creep.
Correctly allowing for creep in the pagelayout would be almost impossible. The creep amount is incremental based on where the page is in the signature, so you would have to know how the signatures will be laid out. Creep has to be handled by the printer's imposition software.
For perfect bound book there is absolutely no reason to untick facing pages.
Inside margins should be a little larger than the outside margins.
But keeping it all as facing pages is preferred.
The printers take care of the positioning of the pages, the creep, the bleed amounts etc. when they are imposing the job.