7 Replies Latest reply on Oct 12, 2014 6:55 AM by johnt53984649

    Some specific Disk Setup Questions

    johnt53984649 Level 2

      Alright, I've read several articles, but I'm still slightly confused.  It's not too much, but just a simple matter of what difference an HDD and an SDD would make without any form of RAID.

      So, let's take the following:

       

      C: Samsung 256GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

      for OS and Programs

      D: 3TB Barracuda SATA 6Gb/s 7200RPM 64MB Cache Desktop Drive  OR   Samsung 1TB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

      for Source Media and Projects

      E: Samsung 128GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

      for Pagefile and Media Cache

      F: Samsung 128GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive  OR   Samsung 256GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

      for Preview and Exports.*

       

      So, this is what I may be considering as a disk setup.  I don't have too much more money to spend than possibly what I have listed above, and I'm trying to determine what would be the best for After Effects and Premiere Pro, the two programs I'd main.

       

      *One thing to note is that I would NOT keep the exports on that disk.  I would move them over to something else I already have for storage.  So, it's basically a matter of how much space should I have on that drive for preview files.

       

      So, here're my questions:

      • For the D: drive, what difference will the HDD I have listed make (remember, Ae and Pr would be READING from that drive) compared to the SDD?  See, I would prefer more space with the HDD, and like to spend less money, but if the other drives are all SSDs, will that HDD slow it all down?
      • How big are preview files supposed to be?  I've had bad experiences with them, due to my lack of knowledge at the moment, but I don't know; just for 1080x1920 HD video, what's a general size the preview files should be per minute?  (I also use several layers, so that could affect the size as well.)
      • If the preview files are generally fairly small when set up correctly (as in not a 40GB file per 3 minutes of 1080by1920 HD), could the E: and F: drives be run together in a RAID0?  Would that offer advantages over running them separately?  Or would the difference be negligible?
      • If it's better to run the E: and F: drives separately, should I use the 128GB drive for Previews/Exports or the 256GB drive?  I know that if I did RAID0 I'd have to use the 128GB.
        • 1. Re: Some specific Disk Setup Questions
          johnt53984649 Level 2

          Other relevant specs:

          Chassis Cooler Master Storm Trooper Full Tower

          Power   1250W Seasonic 80PLUS Gold Power Supply

          Motherboard    Gigabyte GA-X99-UD5 2011-3, DDR4, m.2, Quad SLI, WiFi

          CPU       Intel Core i7-5960X 3.00GHz, 2133MHz DDR4, 20MB Cache, Octo Core Processor Fully Unlocked

          System Memory              64GB (8 x 8GB) , PC4-21300, 2666MHz (G.SKILL - x99)

          Video Adapter 1               NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 4GB GDDR5

          Video Adapter 2               None

          • 2. Re: Some specific Disk Setup Questions
            cc_merchant Level 4

            The Samsung 850 Pro is around three times faster than a conventional HDD and has much lower latencies.

            I would keep E and F as separate drives, but if you have big projects, I would go for 256 GB for the F drive.

            Just with two smallish projects underway, my preview files amount to around 75 GB and media cache is around 55 GB, so 128 GB may be a bit small.

            • 3. Re: Some specific Disk Setup Questions
              johnt53984649 Level 2

              Okay, your advice sounds good.  No RAID and the Samsung 850 SSD will be faster since the data on it can be read faster than an HDD.

               

              Now, I used to use Premiere Elements 11.  When I would create preview files for, say, a 13 minute HD video, the preview files (in total) would be under 1GB or just a little more.  What about Premiere Pro CC makes the file sizes so different?

              • 4. Re: Some specific Disk Setup Questions
                JEShort01 Level 4

                You are building a pretty strong system and are spending a lot of cash. For a balanced drive section, I would suggest the following setup which uses approximately the same budget as what you mention above for drives, but will give you excellent performance and lots more space:

                - OS drive: 256GB Samsung 850 Pro - stick with this, it is a great choice; and you can put your page file on it with no worries

                - HD RAID 0 array: 6x 1TB Barracuda 64MB cache RAID 0 array (x99 boards have LOTS of SATA ports)

                 

                Since you have 64GB of RAM your system will be fast and you will have excess memory not being used by your applications for caching (by Windows) - this is a good thing. You are too hung up on using dedicated drives for cache/scratch from reading "old school" posts on lesser, older systems. My recommendation is based on CC 2014 and 64GB of RAM.

                 

                With a fast 7200rpm RAID 0 array you can put all files there, including scratch, cache, media, previews, exports - the works.

                 

                I've read your various posts and it is clear to me that you don't have a lot of experience building systems, but are trying to read, understand, and conquer "the perfect build" and with hardware that very few have used with the latest CC 2014 software.

                 

                Good luck!

                 

                Jim

                • 5. Re: Some specific Disk Setup Questions
                  johnt53984649 Level 2

                  Yes, it's true; I have no experience building systems at all.  However, I'm still unclear, entirely, on the whole HDD vs SSD thing.  Thank you for your information, but I'd still like to clarify some things.

                   

                  I'm mainly trying to understand more about the performance aspect of all this.

                  Let's take the previously revised version and compare it to your suggested one.  I'll say what I think based upon what I believe to be correct, but I'm obviously missing some information here; that's where I want somebody to correct me.

                   

                  Version 1:

                  C: Samsung 256GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

                  for OS and Programs and possibly Pagefile

                  D: Samsung 1TB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

                  for Source Media and Projects

                  E: Samsung 128GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

                  for possibly Pagefile and Media Cache

                  F: Samsung 256GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

                  for Preview and Exports.*

                  *Take note, I'm putting the exports on a separate drive I already own and deleting them from the drive I originally wrote them to.

                   

                  VS:

                  Version 2:

                  C: Samsung 256GB 850 PRO Series SATA III 6Gb/s Solid State Drive

                  for OS and Programs and pagefile.

                  D: HD RAID 0 array: 6x 1TB Barracuda 64MB cache RAID 0 array (x99 boards have LOTS of SATA ports)

                   

                  So, let me get this straight here.  Correct me if any of the following statements are wrong.  I'll also have some questions associated with them.

                   

                  • Version 2 will be SIGNIFICANTLY slower than Version 1.  I'm assuming this because Version 2 is both an HDD and SATA instead of SSDs with SATA III.  However, I'm unsure of this since RAID 0 is being used in Version 2, unlike Version 1.
                  • Version 2 will be MUCH riskier than Version 1.  I'm assuming this because it's RAID 0, and if one of those six drives fails, all the data is lost.  (However, since the programs are on C:, they will stay safe, along with the operating system.)
                  • Version 2 is ALSO riskier due to the fact that I'm using HDDs instead of SSDs.  Or am I wrong, are SSDs riskier than HDDs?
                  • Under Version 2, I'll have 1TB total to put source media, projects media cache, preview files, and exports on, while keeping the pagefile, OS, and programs on C:. (even though it's six disks)

                   

                  This is what I'm understanding right now.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, or point out other suggestions.  One final thing, as well, that I'm also unsure of.

                   

                  Now, I used to use Premiere Elements 11.  When I would create preview files for, say, a 13 minute HD video, the preview files (in total) would be under 1GB or just a little more.  What about Premiere Pro CC makes the file sizes so different?

                  • 6. Re: Some specific Disk Setup Questions
                    cc_merchant Level 4

                    From Tweakers Page - Disk Setup

                    Even if you have installed a static page-file on another drive, Windows will create a C: drive page-file in the case of a crash for memory dumps, so you may as well create one on the boot drive from the start. As for the size of the page-file, I recommend a sum total of installed memory plus page-file of at least 48 GB, with a minimum static size of 1 or 2 GB, even if you exceed the sum of 48 GB.

                     

                    X99 boards have six SATA 6G ports that are Raid capable and four SATA 6G ports that are not Raid capable, presumably on a hub in the die. It is not yet clear whether using a hub based SATA connection is slower than a native raid capable SATA port, but that was clearly the case with X79 boards. If it also applies to X99 boards, then effectively the maximum number of disks in raid0 is 5 in order to avoid the performance drop for the OS disk.

                     

                    From AnandTech: X99 will also support 10 SATA 6 Gbps ports from the chipset. This is a rather odd addition, because only six of those ports will be RAID capable. Most motherboards will list which ones are specifically for RAID, but this dichotomy makes me believe that the chipset might use a SATA hub on die in order to extend the number of possible ports

                     

                    With 5 conventional HDD's in Raid0, one can expect a sustained transfer rate around 750 MB/s, a bit higher than the 550 MB/s for a single 850 Pro, but the substained transfer rate may be offset by the higher latency of HDD's, especially when using the raid0 for all files, source, project, media cache, previews and exports, not to mention the big security risk of so many disks in a non-parity raid.

                     

                    An alternative might be to look at the Samsung XP941 m.2 PCIe or Mushkin Scorpion DeLuxe PCIe-8x SSD's. Beware that Mushkin uses a SandForce controller, so the claimed specs in transfer rates are higher than in practice. Much less space, but clearly faster than 5 HDD's in Raid0.

                     

                    As always, it is all about balancing price, performance and disk space.

                    • 7. Re: Some specific Disk Setup Questions
                      johnt53984649 Level 2

                      I think that I'm going to stick with my first, revised idea.  It's important that I have 1TB dedicated directly to source media and projects, and I don't trust RAID 0.  If I were to use the HDD idea, I'd have 1TB for all of those other things, apart from the OS, Programs, and Pagefile, which could be too intrusive on my imperative media files.

                       

                      So

                       

                      Could you please elaborate more on the Samsung XP941 a bit more?  I'm not sure what that is or how it works, but I understand that it's something that's only just become recently available.  I've never heard of it until now.

                       

                      Also, one more thing.

                       

                      Now, I used to use Premiere Elements 11.  When I would create preview files for, say, a 13 minute HD video, the preview files (in total) would be under 1GB or just a little more.  What about Premiere Pro CC makes the file sizes so different?