22 Replies Latest reply on Oct 15, 2014 6:33 AM by BobLevine

    How do I make proper running headers?

    FrankB62 Level 1

      Hi,

       

      Can anyone tell me how to make proper running headers in InDesign? All I can find is pulling the first and last occurence up into the header, but that is not the correct way of making running headers.

       

      If I have some text flowing into the page from the previous page, then I need the header which this text belongs to in the running header. I don't need whatever new header is found "first" half way down on the page. The running header should show what text is flowing into the page.

        • 1. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

          Do you work with Paragraph Styles? Set up a text variable based o the Paragraph Style of the headline first on page. It will draw the text from the last occurance of the paragraph style.

          • 2. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
            Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            That won't work if there's another heading on the page

             

            bpOU8.jpg

            • 4. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
              FrankB62 Level 1

              I am not going to buy any separate tools to get InDesign to work properly. This is essential functionality in any publishing software, and InDesign should be able to handle it.

              • 5. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                FrankB62 Level 1

                I am not looking for various workarounds. I have seen people placing text into the document with 1pt size and set the color to white, so they have something to refer to, that does not take up space, but such nonsense is not for me. I want to know how to do it properly, with the correct functionality of InDesign. If that is not possible, I will find myself another piece of software to use for my publications.

                • 6. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                  Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  InDesign does have a running head feature, but it only works by picking up either the First Paragraph style or the Last Paragraph style on the page.

                   

                  The fact that it doesn't work the way you would like it doesn't mean it isn't working properly, it's just not a feature they included in the Running Head Text Variables when they created it.

                   

                  You make a request here - https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform&loc=en

                   

                  but that is not the correct way of making running headers.

                   

                  If I have some text flowing into the page from the previous page, then I need the header which this text belongs to in the running header. I don't need whatever new header is found "first" half way down on the page. The running header should show what text is flowing into the page.

                   

                  That's how InDesign handles the running headers - and who's to say the correct way.

                   

                  In 12 years using the software (which it wasn't a feature originally) and 15 years' experience in the printing industry, I have never seen running heads done the way you describe.

                   

                  Perharps Corel Ventura handles them differently, but InDesign does not work this way.

                   

                  It's simply not a function that I am aware of that InDesign can do - nor have I ever seen a request for this.

                   

                  InTools is great plugin and it was developed for the very reason you describe - InDesign simply has a poor Running Head feature - and Power Headers from InTools solves the issue of unusual or more complex running headers with the plugin.

                   

                  If you don't want to purchase that that's up to you - but it comes with a free 30 day free trial and would solve your issue.

                   

                  It's not even expensive.

                  • 7. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    It is not possible out of the box. It is possible with the plugin.

                     

                    Good luck with your search for the perfect software.

                    • 8. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                      FrankB62 Level 1

                      The correct way is as I describe it. That is why it is called "running". It runs from one page to the next. I have been in the publishig business for 30 years, and I have never experienced a piece of software that could not handle this correctly.

                       

                      If you open a book on a page, and the first half of that page is a text continued from the previous page, how do you know what header that text belongs to? That is what the header is supposed to show. If there is no new header further down on the page, then InDesign shows it correctly, but if there is a new header, then that one is pulled up instead. That is nonsense. The header should show what the text at the start of the page belongs to, not what comes further down on the page. You can see that just by looking down on the page, but you cannot see what the start text belongs to without going one or several pages back in the book.

                       

                      The people who designed this obviously have no idea of how running headers work.

                      • 9. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                        FrankB62 Level 1

                        Take a look at this examle, which is wrong:

                         

                        The second layer should have METAL in the header on the left page, and the third layer should have PRINCE. How else would you know what you are reading about?

                        09fig09.jpg

                        • 10. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                          Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          It absolutely should not have metal. It's done alphabetically.

                           

                          Anyone with a brain can do to the "ME" section of a dictionary and go back a page to find the reference.

                           

                          Running Heads are called running heads because they run at the head of the page, replicating content that is on the page, not on the page before, or the page after.

                           

                          There is no set rule - and once again - 15 years in the business and I've never seen a book with running heads from a previous page where there are a few lines of text running from the other page.

                           

                          In my experience, and every book I've done (including a 3,200 page book of text based on tax) the Running Head on the page is changed 3,158 times, replicating the first paragraph on the page.

                           

                           

                          I'm not arguing with you over what way you want to style your book - I don't particularly care.

                           

                           

                          InDesign cannot do what you need it to do.

                           

                          Powerheaders Plugin that I pointed to will achieve what you want it to do.

                           

                           

                          I've also sent you the link for the feature request.

                           

                          Sorry to say - the software won't do what you want it do.

                          • 11. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                            FrankB62 Level 1

                            Okay, then InDesign is useless in my opinion. It cannot do running headers.

                            • 12. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                              John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Yes, it's been established that it doesn't work the way you want. The horse is dead.

                              I have been in the publishig business for 30 years, and I have never experienced a piece of software that could not handle this correctly.

                              So how is it that you've been forced to switch to one that doesn't?

                               

                              All things considered, InDesign is still a somewhat un-matured application, and there are plenty of features which could be imagined that are still lacking or under-developed in InDesign. In many cases, those weaknesses are addressed by 3rd party solutions and/or worked-around through the ingenuity of users. Nevertheless, the application does have many very strong, better-than-any-other features many users have come to regard as indispensable. How viable the product is for your use depends on the nature of your work. If 85% of your documents require the type of running header functionality not found in InDesign, and you're not willing to do anything about it but insist that InDesign should have the native feature, then perhaps you should drop InDesign and use an application that does what you need.

                              • 13. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                It can do running headers - just not the way you want it to work.

                                 

                                That's why Harbs at InTools developed the plugin - so that the limitations in the software could be bridged for people that do complex, or unorthodox running headers.

                                 

                                You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this and won't accept the advice we're giving you.

                                 

                                It's coming across a bit rude, and that's completely uncalled for.

                                • 14. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                  FrankB62 Level 1

                                  I am using InDesign because the people I am doing publications for want it to be made in InDesign. It is not my choice, and I will now tell them that InDesign cannot do what they need.

                                  • 15. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                    FrankB62 Level 1

                                    Maybe I am sounding a bit rude, but I hate it when people are defending flaws in software. I know what a running header is, and InDesign obviously doesn't have that, so you shouldn't try to pass whatever it is they have made on as running headers.

                                     

                                    It also bugs me that people can't use their brains, and see the logic behind why a header needs to refer to the text at the start of the page and not to what comes later. You are reading text you don't know what belongs to.

                                     

                                    The thing InDesign has is useless, and if you use that in your publications, you are not very professional.

                                    • 16. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                      Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      According to you every dictionary/encyclopedia ever printed or made is wrong - and your way is right.

                                       

                                      Which is more likely?

                                       

                                      20141015_135935.jpg

                                      • 17. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                        Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        FrankB62 wrote:

                                         


                                        The thing InDesign has is useless, and if you use that in your publications, you are not very professional.

                                         

                                        Anyone who produces long documents in InDesign uses running headers.

                                         

                                        And InDesign produces them - to a high standard.

                                         

                                        Calling me unprofessional has not helped your case at all.

                                         

                                        I am finished trying to help you.

                                        • 18. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                          FrankB62 Level 1

                                          What is the text at the top of page 614 about (before longan)? You have no idea, and have to go back to the previous page to find out.

                                           

                                          That is definitely not the right way of doing it.

                                          • 19. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                            FrankB62 Level 1

                                            Trying to help? Lol. You are doing nothing other than defending what is wrong.

                                            • 20. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                              Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Go to the library and pick out 100 different dictionaries. They all do the same thing. Why? Because it's a non-written standard rule for typesetting.

                                               

                                              The fact you do it differently doesn't mean that you're doing it right, or InDesign is doing it wrong, it's just done differently.

                                               

                                              InDesign doesn't cater for the style of Running Head you want.

                                               

                                              End of.

                                              • 21. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                                John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                FrankB62 wrote:

                                                 

                                                Maybe I am sounding a bit rude

                                                I'm glad you agree.

                                                ...I hate it when people are defending flaws in software.

                                                You're wound up, and maybe even a bit paranoid. The responses you got here were actually quite objective.

                                                ...so you shouldn't try to pass whatever it is they have made...

                                                We are all users of the product, subject to the same shortcomings and frustrations as you. No one here has tried to pass anything off on you, Frank. Most responders to this thread made an earnest attempt to help you.

                                                It also bugs me that people can't use their brains, and see the logic...

                                                Again, no one here contradicted your logic to the point that they should be accused of non-use of their brain.

                                                The thing InDesign has is useless, and if you use that in your publications, you are not very professional.

                                                If you post something like this on a public forum, you are not many things.

                                                • 22. Re: How do I make proper running headers?
                                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                  This is all played out folks. Locked.